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  1. #61411
    Incredible Member Majesty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Funny you bring up Sue, since she became Malice too.

    I guess the convenient thing about T'Challa being bond like is if they hypothetically do decide to have Nakia do Malice, they don't even need a Monica Lynn to get there.
    Well that's quite the benefit isn't it.


    Because if in the movie or series of films, if Nakia does turn into Malice. She does it in a more dignified way than the comics did it.

    As she is a war dog, and someone in conflict about who she is it will make both sides happy. They'll get a loyal butt kicking secret agent Nakia and some T'Challa romance early on, but then they also get the villainous Malice of that same butt kicking secret agent, later on. But the journey and the reasons why she gets to that point would wind up much more dignified than the comic gave her.

    So in a way if Nakia becomes Malice in the movie, she had a stronger character, a stronger arc, and stronger reasons for doing so than she did in the comics, and I don't think anyone would complain about or have a problem with that aspect of it. I much prefer a Mordo or Sinestro heel turn(the ONLY thing good about the GL movie) for Nakia as opposed to a "why does sempai not notice me!" one.

    Nakia having her own motivations for how she sees the world and whats necessary, or buying into Warmongers ideals which at one point were akin to a much darker Robin Hood kind of figure(which the movies seem to have stripped from him sadly, as well as his magic) would make a lot more sense and be a much stronger reason.

    Because here's the thing, if you get a great actress like Lupita Nyongo. I stress to say she goes beyond being the love interest that will eventually recede into the background and the only time we see her by the time Black Panther 3 rolls around is just in one fight scene or something where we can comment "NAKIA!!" on youtube a year later cause we were happy to see her again.

    Lupita Nyongo is not a background actress, and she's playing a character that does a LOT more than recede into the background. Especially given the fact she can become Malice.

    So for many a reason I don't want Lupita Nyongo to fall into the "Jane" and "Pepper" background love interest follies where her importance becomes less and less as the movies go onward and any kind of individuality she showed in her first appearance slowly dissipates. A character like Nakia can prevent that from happening if they go the full way with it.

    So to me, Warmonger surviving doesn't just mean Warmonger gets to appear in more films (which is a plus), it also means that Nakia is set for a bigger role going forward, and there's nothing more I'd want than that for both Michael B. Jordan AND Lupita Nyongo in the MCU.
    Last edited by Majesty; Yesterday at 04:41 PM.

  2. #61412
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majesty View Post
    Well that's quite the benefit isn't it.


    Because if in the movie or series of films, if Nakia does turn into Malice. She does it in a more dignified way than the comics did it.

    As she is a war dog, and someone in conflict about who she is it will make both sides happy. They'll get a loyal butt kicking secret agent Nakia and some T'Challa romance early on, but then they also get the villainous Malice of that same butt kicking secret agent, later on. But the journey and the reasons why she gets to that point would wind up much more dignified than the comic gave her.

    So in a way if Nakia becomes Malice in the movie, she had a stronger character, a stronger arc, and stronger reasons for doing so than she did in the comics, and I don't think anyone would complain about or have a problem with that aspect of it. I much prefer a Mordo or Sinestro heel turn(the ONLY thing good about the GL movie) for Nakia as opposed to a "why does sempai not notice me!" one.

    Nakia having her own motivations for how she sees the world and whats necessary, or buying into Warmongers ideals which at one point were akin to a much darker Robin Hood kind of figure(which the movies seem to have stripped from him sadly, as well as his magic) would make a lot more sense and be a much stronger reason.

    Because here's the thing, if you get a great actress like Lupita Nyongo. I stress to say she goes beyond being the love interest that will eventually recede into the background and the only time we see her by the time Black Panther 3 rolls around is just in one fight scene or something where we can comment "NAKIA!!" on youtube a year later cause we were happy to see her again.

    Lupita Nyongo is not a background actress, and she's playing a character that does a LOT more than recede into the background. Especially given the fact she can become Malice.

    So for many a reason I don't want Lupita Nyongo to fall into the "Jane" and "Pepper" background love interest follies where her importance becomes less and less as the movies go onward and any kind of individuality she showed in her first appearance slowly dissipates. A character like Nakia can prevent that from happening if they go the full way with it.

    So to me, Warmonger surviving doesn't just mean Warmonger gets to appear in more films (which is a plus), it also means that Nakia is set for a bigger role going forward, and there's nothing more I'd want than that for both Michael B. Jordan AND Lupita Nyongo in the MCU.
    Hmm... if Nakia is a Dog of War, I wonder of they might mix a little White Wolf into her MCU character (assuming there's no Hunter ). They ended up exiled free mercenaries at one point. Though that's probably loading up too much on the character.

  3. #61413
    Incredible Member Majesty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Hmm... if Nakia is a Dog of War, I wonder of they might mix a little White Wolf into her MCU character (assuming there's no Hunter ). They ended up exiled free mercenaries at one point. Though that's probably loading up too much on the character.

    Not a bad direction however, and that's the benefit of the character change in Nakia. But it also makes both sides happy, the Na'Challa(almost got spell corrected to Nutella.. which there's also many shippers of) shippers can get some early romance. But then the fans also get the Nakia betrayal, and then they get Malice. So all sides are happy at that point, and I think everyone would much prefer that than a character like Nakia and a actress like Lupita Nyongo slowly receding into the background in the following films.

    Michael B. Jordan describes Killmonger and T'Challa's relationship/chemistry as Magneto and Professor X.

    While I'd disagree if that was their 'characters', I do find it interesting if their relationship was one where T'Challa saw more in Killmonger and expected him to one day fight for the same cause as him. It is a very interesting take, however it also sets up a redemption for Killmonger if he survives the first film. It also sets up Killmonger to be able to say/do things that could make you question who is on the right side, much like Magneto/Professor X do often. I think that latter part is the best way to go about it. Killmonger doesn't need to be redeemed, he needs to be listened to and himself to have a strong enough point that some people would go "hmm..he does kind of have a point there.." and if we can make the audience say it.. then it makes all the more sense why the 'war dog' Nakia..would say it. ESPECIALLY if she's portrayed as more battle hardened and brutal than some of her other counterparts. Heck I WANT that to be the case at this point now that the prospect of Lupita Nyongo playing that kind of role could potentially be on the table.

    That said though, I'd rather they keep Killmonger as a central villain/idealist in the vein of a Magneto, where he doesn't have to be the main focal point of the other movies going forward but he still has a presence and effect on the world.

    If you want a zinger ending, we could have Killmonger not killed but captured along with Klaw, and put into a Wakandan holding facility. But then you can have them broken out of there by someone, and it isn't revealed until the end shot, that it is Nakia that frees them. That's the kind of "zinger" you can end the film or after credits sequence on to set up a sequel. Because you have Warmonger, Klaw and Nakia's betrayal all setting up a "where does it go from here!?" narrative.

    My dad brought up an interesting point, that Killmonger isn't against Wakanda, he's against T'Challa's approach towards a better Wakanda. That + his jealousy/rivalry with T'Challa helps their dynamic, but Killmonger's philosophies also are what makes him sort of a cult hero to some and why others join his cause, again in the kind of "Darker Robin Hood" way.

    I would much rather prefer that Killmonger as opposed to a cardboard cut out 'I will destroy and rebuild THE WORLD' Killmonger, because it adds depth. It would also lead into Nakia's betrayal as she travels the world, she sees what's going on, she goes out into the world to gather information, she's seen the devastation of everything that's likely gone on in the past Avengers films. Her buying into what Killmonger is saying about what needs to change, and how T'Challa's approach doesn't work would lead very much more into why Nakia would join him. That would be more akin to if we want to stick with the "Xavier vs Magneto" narrative, why some people defect from the X-Men and join the Brotherhood. Heck THAT would also be a nod to the villainous group Klaw becomes a part of, although in the Black Panther movie the group eventually formed would/could be Killmonger, Klaw, Man-Ape and Malice... oh THAT is something I would not mind at all. It also gives both Killmonger AND Nakia a narrative going forward past the first film.

    Again, it's all in the execution of the idea. It can be pulled off and done so fantastically, it can also be botched. I'm hoping for the former as opposed to the latter if they decide to go that route.

    But if Black Panther brought our first "Super villains group" to the MCU, I'm not against it in the least!
    Last edited by Majesty; Yesterday at 05:15 PM.

  4. #61414
    Incredible Member MoneySpider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    The opposite, go forward I. Time to when she is older,
    wiser and reconizes and is remorseful for her actions. Hell the frogs could throw Tchalla into the future to give her the redemption arc and she can come back with him
    I see the whole "she's insane" thing getting in the way of her feeling remorseful. I don't think her insanity is something that can just be done away with because she feels remorse. Would she even feel remorse? Maybe if she was on some sort of medication or something, but still...

  5. #61415
    Incredible Member MoneySpider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    T'Challa can definitely do better than a traitor who escorted mutant terrorists onto sovereign Wakandan soil before jumping into bed with a serial womaniser just after assaulting T'Challa and declaring him to be a "bad husband."
    All of that is the writers' fault, not Storm's, though. I don't blame the the character for the actions biased writers make her take. My issues are with the writers, not with Storm. As you yourself have stated many times before...."Characters don't write themselves."

  6. #61416
    Astonishing Member Rumble's Avatar
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    It's on the writer when it's convenient (Storm). It's on the character when it's convenient (Nakia). That's how it usually goes. heh

    It's been 15 years (our time) for comic Nakia, if a writer wanted to have her mature and grow from the possible torture and rape she went through back then, to have a redemption arc (or some other means).. nobody would be up in arms. Or rather, it'll be the usual crowd of shade-throwers shade throwing and the usual crowd of those open-minded to her.. being open minded to her (along with the rest of the general public, who would be indifferent as long as the story is good lol).

    It's not a question about whether a writer could write redemption arc Nakia anymore than whether a writer could write a great Storm or a great/formidable Klaw. It's all just imagination on paper (or big screen).

  7. #61417
    Geek Strong Style Smoov-E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumble View Post
    It's on the writer when it's convenient (Storm). It's on the character when it's convenient (Nakia). That's how it usually goes. heh

    It's been 15 years (our time) for comic Nakia, if a writer wanted to have her mature and grow from the possible torture and rape she went through back then, to have a redemption arc (or some other means).. nobody would be up in arms. Or rather, it'll be the usual crowd of shade-throwers shade throwing and the usual crowd of those open-minded to her.. being open minded to her (along with the rest of the general public, who would be indifferent as long as the story is good lol).

    It's not a question about whether a writer could write redemption arc Nakia anymore than whether a writer could write a great Storm or a great/formidable Klaw. It's all just imagination on paper (or big screen).


    There’s always goal post moving when it comes to Storm, it’s her secondary mutation

  8. #61418
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneySpider View Post
    I see the whole "she's insane" thing getting in the way of her feeling remorseful. I don't think her insanity is something that can just be done away with because she feels remorse. Would she even feel remorse? Maybe if she was on some sort of medication or something, but still...
    Dating insane murderers is especially a problem if you happen to be the ruler of the most advanced nation on the planet. You probably want to be REALLY careful who you are putting on the throne with you.

    Any writer do decides to try and make that work will have their work cut out of them.

  9. #61419
    Fantastic Member Ziggiyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumble View Post
    I prefer this long term, actually. While I'm not saying he should be a man-ho lol, I don't want T'Challa getting married anytime soon either.

    I'm all for 007 James Bond T'Chadwick. And fortunately, that's how Chadwick Boseman also sees the character.

    Lupita was already confirmed as his ride or die former lover who is his active love interest again in the movie.

    It's pretty much the best of both words for true Black Panther fans: Wakandan love + a non-castrated, suave and classy natural lady's man in T'Challa.

    I know ziggly is thrilled
    Why yes. Yes I am lol

  10. #61420
    Astonishing Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneySpider View Post
    I see the whole "she's insane" thing getting in the way of her feeling remorseful. I don't think her insanity is something that can just be done away with because she feels remorse. Would she even feel remorse? Maybe if she was on some sort of medication or something, but still...
    anything is possible in comics, and she wasn't insane,
    she was obsessed and she was also young, as people get older they can realize how terrible they were acting and can change. It happens all the time. People I knew who were out of control in highschool are now nearly 10 year's later mature adults. Any one can have a redemption story. If Doom can go from a Villain to hero after everything he had done, I'm sure Nakia who had one short arc can certainly get a second chance

  11. #61421
    Astonishing Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Honestly im not sure why people here are so set on mcu Nakia becoming malice. It's not as though doing so made her a Major Villain or memorable, it was one arc and then she disappeared after that. There wasn't any further Character development, she didn't come back later on. So to be so set on her becoming malice because... She has the same name as comic book Nakia, means nothing. With this logic Florence Kasumba's Ayo should turn out to be a lesbian and get with the leader of the DM.. except it's not going to happen, she is Ayo in name only, just like lupita is Nakia in name only. The fact that she and T'Challa are on/off lovers already shows her different than the comics.

    Turning her into malice doesn't do anything at all

  12. #61422
    Incredible Member Majesty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumble View Post
    It's on the writer when it's convenient (Storm). It's on the character when it's convenient (Nakia). That's how it usually goes. heh

    Actually I gotta take down that argument and I'm sticking to the comics idea in this one.

    Storm actually has been written in a character arc that grew her as a character, as well as T'Challa. Yeah there was bad writing to break them up, but in the comics now, they are still acknowledging what happened, but instead of just acting like it didn't happen, the guy who writes both Storm and Black Panther used it instead as an opportunity to grow both characters, as I broke down here.

    http://community.comicbookresources....=1#post3171369
    http://community.comicbookresources....=1#post3171376



    So for Storm there is no need to "move goal posts" because she actually legitimately has gotten an arc that made her a better person and have a greater and deeper understanding of T'Challa now as they pursue things once more, AND it also made T'Challa a better person in his understanding of storm and acceptance, before her re-awakening by the end of the arc and growth as a character.



    Nakia however hasn't gotten such a story, and we can go all day about "Well she could." but the fact of the matter is, the problems with her comicbook counterpart are still there, whereas Storm and T'Challa's issues have not only been dealt with, but used as an opportunity to grow both characters, their understanding of one another, and bring them closer together on more than one level. It's been written, it's canon.

    Nakia hasn't gotten any such development. So if we're talking the comics here, Storm's portrayal(in the bad writing) seems to have been fixed and used to grow her character as well as T'Challa's. While Nakia (comic book wise)'s problems, remain relevant, whereas Storm's no longer do.


    Just wanted to throw that out there, because I always see people saying "Well why is it different for Storm and not Nakia!?!?!" because Storm actually got a character arc that brought it full circle and brought her and T'Challa closer. Nakia thus far has gotten no such arc, and thus it's not relevant to the argument outside of wishful thinking, which means any relationship between the two in the comic now would be just as toxic for the same reasons. Whereas the arguments people would have made about Storm a few years ago, no longer are, especially considering the arc the two of them just went through together. It's not moving the goal posts, it's where both characters actually stand canonically in the comics.


    No offense I just wanted to make that point about that perspective on that angle.
    Last edited by Majesty; Yesterday at 09:32 PM.

  13. #61423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Honestly im not sure why people here are so set on mcu Nakia becoming malice. It's not as though doing so made her a Major Villain or memorable, it was one arc and then she disappeared after that. There wasn't any further Character development, she didn't come back later on. So to be so set on her becoming malice because... She has the same name as comic book Nakia, means nothing. With this logic Florence Kasumba's Ayo should turn out to be a lesbian and get with the leader of the DM.. except it's not going to happen, she is Ayo in name only, just like lupita is Nakia in name only. The fact that she and T'Challa are on/off lovers already shows her different than the comics.

    Turning her into malice doesn't do anything at all
    Not dead set on her becoming Malice and not against it either. TChalla marrying one of the DM has strong story potential.

    But turning her into Malice adds another female villain to the MCU which to date only has like one and a possible.

  14. #61424
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, I think Moro is a great template of how to make a cool movie villain. Loki aside, the villains in the MCU have been somewhat on the underwhelming side. But a heel turn allows viewers more time get emotionally invested in them.
    MCU villains have been weak, but I know Marvel is waiting to drop the updated Masters of Evil in Avengers 4 or 5. So start to see some villains not dying

  15. #61425
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Honestly im not sure why people here are so set on mcu Nakia becoming malice. It's not as though doing so made her a Major Villain or memorable, it was one arc and then she disappeared after that. There wasn't any further Character development, she didn't come back later on. So to be so set on her becoming malice because... She has the same name as comic book Nakia, means nothing. With this logic Florence Kasumba's Ayo should turn out to be a lesbian and get with the leader of the DM.. except it's not going to happen, she is Ayo in name only, just like lupita is Nakia in name only. The fact that she and T'Challa are on/off lovers already shows her different than the comics.

    Turning her into malice doesn't do anything at all
    It's probably a mistake to be deadset against Nakia going either way. Either option is certainly a possibility, and IMO either options works perfectly fine. I certainly don't beleive Nakia needs to become Malice... but I also believe she has the potential too be a lot of fun as it gives T'CHalla his own Cat Woman.

    I will admit I'm far less open minded about the comic book version of Nakia being with T'Challa... but as this point it's moot since she's nowhere on the radar so I don't feel I need to be.

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