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  1. #166
    Amazing Member Adam Allen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post
    He was definitely a weird idea, I remember his intro in Aquaman, but never followed him into Aquaman & The Others book. Did they explain the gold chains? How exactly he "gained powers from the deaths of his comrades"?
    Did we ever see his actual face?
    And did he ever just go by POW!
    I don't think we saw his face ... internet shows that he returned to his family at some point, so we get to see him from behind, while they see his face ... I'm not aware of any explanation for the chains either, part of why he's such a horrible idea is that I'm pretty sure his "costume" is just based on what a real prisoner of war would have to endure ... hood covering your face, and the chains are because you're tied up, or in chains.

    That's what I'm on about -- wtf with this concept?! You're somehow taking the image/idea of a captured and tortured soldier as the basis for a new superhero? No -- seriously, don't do that! I guess I can kind of see some of your basic thought -- one part Captain America super soldier kind of thing, one part Spider-Man tragic origin thing, one part Ghost Rider cool chains, and one part Wolverine gritty realism thing ... but, really, you can't just randomly throw stuff together! This is a really bad idea!

    "Prisoner of War! Because real-world trauma should equal fictional heroes!"

    No! Just, no! Really, really bad idea.
    We've got the power to be loving each other, no matter what happens -- we've got the power to do that

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    DC's Brother Power, The Geek seems like something somebody would come up with on a dare to deliberately make the worst character possible.

    Either that or it was the result of a drinking binge. Or both.

    Marvel's Battling Bantam is pretty irredeemable also.
    Thing about Bother Power is that he was created by Joe Simon ( the co-creator of Capt America ironically enough) to cash in on the hippie/counterculture movement of the time. Simon wanted to call him "The Freak" because some hippies would refer to themselves as "freaks" and terms like "freak out" and "freaky" were commonly used in slang during that era. Someone at DC said no we don't want anyone thinking that we're advocating drugs and anything anti-establishment, so they changed the name and ended up doing this watered down thing about an affable rag-man. I'm aware that he showed up a couple times since then in DC's Vertigo line but I haven't read those stories.

    Thing is under the right kind of writer, you could probably use the character for some interesting social-political satire.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Allen View Post
    "Prisoner of War is a member of The Others, the first superhero group Aquaman belonged to. Prisoner of War is a war veteran who gained powers from the deaths of his comrades and hides his face because of it."

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    Such a bad idea.
    I actually didn't mind that character but he could probably be better used as a horror/supernatural character.

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Allen View Post
    "Prisoner of War is a member of The Others, the first superhero group Aquaman belonged to. Prisoner of War is a war veteran who gained powers from the deaths of his comrades and hides his face because of it."

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    Such a bad idea.
    The Others in general seem like a bad idea. Or at least an idea that needed a better writer than Geoff Johns to execute it.

  5. #170
    Genesis of A Nemesis Things Fall Apart's Avatar
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    Really, no one else picked Brown Bomber?

    He was a skinhead who turned into the most offensively stereotypical Luke Cage knock off if he yelled "black power". Basically he was a Blackface Shazam. DC was way into the idea until Tony Isabella said, "Hell no, that's stupid", and gave them Black Lightning instead.

    McDuffie later brought him in as a joke/commentary character and it was still a terrible idea.
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  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    Really, no one else picked Brown Bomber?

    He was a skinhead who turned into the most offensively stereotypical Luke Cage knock off if he yelled "black power". Basically he was a Blackface Shazam. DC was way into the idea until Tony Isabella said, "Hell no, that's stupid", and gave them Black Lightning instead.

    McDuffie later brought him in as a joke/commentary character and it was still a terrible idea.
    You left out that his civilian identity was that of a white Archie Bunker type and his superhero suit was just running sweats! I think more folks didn't mention him here probably because he was a bad idea that didn't make to publication. Only fans that know the behind the scenes creation of Black Lightning would be aware of BB.

  7. #172
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Allen View Post
    I don't think we saw his face ... internet shows that he returned to his family at some point, so we get to see him from behind, while they see his face ... I'm not aware of any explanation for the chains either, part of why he's such a horrible idea is that I'm pretty sure his "costume" is just based on what a real prisoner of war would have to endure ... hood covering your face, and the chains are because you're tied up, or in chains.

    That's what I'm on about -- wtf with this concept?! You're somehow taking the image/idea of a captured and tortured soldier as the basis for a new superhero? No -- seriously, don't do that! I guess I can kind of see some of your basic thought -- one part Captain America super soldier kind of thing, one part Spider-Man tragic origin thing, one part Ghost Rider cool chains, and one part Wolverine gritty realism thing ... but, really, you can't just randomly throw stuff together! This is a really bad idea!

    "Prisoner of War! Because real-world trauma should equal fictional heroes!"

    No! Just, no! Really, really bad idea.
    I don't know being the last of a platoon, who is "empowered" literally by his fallen (and potentially tortured) brothers-in-arms, seems like a powerful idea.
    A "costume" in the traditional superhero sense, may actually have belittled the character and idea even more.
    His look I agree, as a soldier with the hood on his head, is a bit crass, sensationalized, somewhat exploitative, and unnerving, but maybe that's the point, here is a guy who doesn't get his own face or the whimsical, easy look of a hero, but a harsh reminder of the grim reality of all his fallen comrades.
    Maybe putting him among the more costumed heroes is a bad idea, but DC has had a line and tradition of straight up military heroes, from the fantastic, to fantasy and sci-fi, that have crossed over.
    They tend to be however from far-gone wars, might make them easier to take in.
    These guys didn't have "superpowers" or "costumes" they were real! Do you get to turn that into escapist fantasy? This one I agree cuts close.
    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    I actually didn't mind that character but he could probably be better used as a horror/supernatural character.
    Maybe he would work better in that context.
    Last edited by Güicho; 01-05-2018 at 10:06 AM.

  8. #173
    Genesis of A Nemesis Things Fall Apart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    You left out that his civilian identity was that of a white Archie Bunker type and his superhero suit was just running sweats! I think more folks didn't mention him here probably because he was a bad idea that didn't make to publication. Only fans that know the behind the scenes creation of Black Lightning would be aware of BB.
    Well, like I said McDuffie did bring him in years later, but I'd have just left him on the scrap heap.
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  9. #174
    Genesis of A Nemesis Things Fall Apart's Avatar
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    Not a character per se, but the entirety of Marville.
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  10. #175
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Fred and Barney meet The Thing!!
    Cause they have rocks? stones? In common? Makes so much sense!
    Now explain how they met the Shmoo!

    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    Surprised no one mentioned The Great Gazoo from The Flintstones cartoons.
    I always figured he was from the Jetsons era, who had just somehow crossed over into the Flinstones time.
    Last edited by Güicho; 01-05-2018 at 08:43 PM.

  11. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Thing about Bother Power is that he was created by Joe Simon ( the co-creator of Capt America ironically enough) to cash in on the hippie/counterculture movement of the time. Simon wanted to call him "The Freak" because some hippies would refer to themselves as "freaks" and terms like "freak out" and "freaky" were commonly used in slang during that era. Someone at DC said no we don't want anyone thinking that we're advocating drugs and anything anti-establishment, so they changed the name and ended up doing this watered down thing about an affable rag-man. I'm aware that he showed up a couple times since then in DC's Vertigo line but I haven't read those stories.

    Thing is under the right kind of writer, you could probably use the character for some interesting social-political satire.
    I re-read the two Simon issues recently. If one sees them as conservative satires of the hippie mindset, they're not that bad. Brother Power reads a lot better than the "Harvey superheroes" line of comics that Simon oversaw a few years earlier. Jeez, what a dire collection of Batman ripoffs and artists' unsold file stories.

  12. #177

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    Looking over the titles of Marvel's "New Universe," KICKERS INC, the one with the superpowered football players, seems pretty dire, though I seem to remember thinking NIGHTMASK, which wasn't a half bad idea, being the worst book.

    Jim Shooter masterminded a lot of comics/toys tie-ins that were pretty awful. "U.S.1" comes to mind as the worst.

    I've always hated DeMatteis's villain Turner D. Century, whom I think was intended without irony. Oh, and "Frog-Man" too. Did someone finally just off him (I hope)?

  13. #178
    DARKSEID LAUGHS... Crazy Diamond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    You left out that his civilian identity was that of a white Archie Bunker type and his superhero suit was just running sweats! I think more folks didn't mention him here probably because he was a bad idea that didn't make to publication. Only fans that know the behind the scenes creation of Black Lightning would be aware of BB.
    He was mentioned earlier on in this thread.

    Most bad characters can be salvaged with a creative writer but even then that typically results in a radical reintepretation of said character.

    No one could salvage Rapeman though.

  14. #179
    Astonishing Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    Well, like I said McDuffie did bring him in years later, but I'd have just left him on the scrap heap.
    It was also McDuffie who gave him the name "Brown Bomber." It was Black Bomber originally.

  15. #180
    Sailing the seas Chris Lang's Avatar
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    Penance.

    Even if Penance were a new character, with no ties to Speedball or any other established character, the concept STILL would have fallen flat on its ass. It seems like the pitch for him might have gone something like this:

    "Okay, so there's this guy who's one of the few survivors of an explosion caused by a supervillain that kills hundreds of people. It breaks him mentally. His survivor's guilt is so much that he dons a suit of armor with spikes on the inside - one spike for each of the people who died - to punish himself for not being able to save them. And the pain triggers his super-powers. He's an emo superhero who cuts himself! The kids are gonna love it!"

    Of course, when Penance showed up, he was met with almost universal derision. As a concept, Penance is nearly impossible to take seriously. Making Speedball (a lighthearted, fun hero) into Penance made the character even more ridiculous. So much so that Dan Slott mercilessly mocked him in the Great Lakes Initiative Summer Special, where Squirrel Girl visits him and points out the absurdity of making a light character like Speedball into an emo nutcase.

    Penance: You don't get it! This whole self-punishement thing! It's too deep for you! I'm deep now! And that means I do deep stuff! Like this! (bangs head against the wall) And this!

    (squirrel chirps)

    Squirrel Girl, to squirrel: You said it, Tippy Toe. What a nut.

    So yes, Penance was pretty much doomed to be an item for 'Most Ridiculous Character Revamps' list articles from Day One.

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