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Thread: Game of Thrones

  1. #5326
    For honor... Madam-Shogun-Assassin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor-of-Dragons View Post
    The Walking Dead TV show has the very same conundrum when it comes to keeping things or not keeping things from the source material for the sake of pace. Some criticisms are just kinda unavoidable. And like i said elsewhere we still don't know what the hell GRRM plan on doing in this situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Only modification I would have made to the way it played out was make it clear that Bran had "seen" all of Littlefinger's machinations in the past, causing Sansa to accuse Baelish even about his involvement in getting her forcibly married to Tyrion instead of Loras and callously letting her take part of the blame for Joffrey's murder, when he was the one to help orchestrate it.

    Bran is a deux machina, but once you have him holed up at the same place as Littlefinger, LF's secrets don't stay buried. It's just unavoidable.
    Agreed with everything here. A lot of the issues pertaining to the show is just unavoidable. Some things have to be condensed, as it's too late to do anything else. Especially with Littlefinger. I would also argue that Petyr was traded in for Cersei. I do think Baelish should have lasted longer than Cersei, but i also believe they both should be deader than dead before the war, Cersei mostly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Peril View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks Cersei survives this?
    How and why? Serious question.

  2. #5327
    Fantastic Member Master Planner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Peril View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks Cersei survives this?
    Yeap.Cercei's role is to be the destroyer of Lannisters.Book Cercei is Joffrey with more restrains.TV Cercei,while more sane than her book counterpart,is as stupid and elitist as a spoiled queen can be.She wants to be Tywin,but she's too cruel and not bright enough for that.

    Jaime and Cercei will die,probably together,s they came to this world together.Tyrion is the only one of the Lannisters that i can see surviving.
    " I am Loki Scar-Lip, Loki Skywalker, Loki Giant's Child, Loki Lie-Smith. I am Loki, who is fire and wit and hate. I am Loki. And I will be under an obligation to no one."

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  3. #5328
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    I doubt Cersei lives. I think even fans of hers would rather see her die than have her see some shameful bitter exile or yet another imprisonment.

    When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground.

    We all know who said that to Ned. So unless she wins....
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 01-11-2018 at 01:02 PM.
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  4. #5329
    Mighty Member Johnny Peril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madam-Shogun-Assassin View Post
    Agreed with everything here. A lot of the issues pertaining to the show is just unavoidable. Some things have to be condensed, as it's too late to do anything else. Especially with Littlefinger. I would also argue that Petyr was traded in for Cersei. I do think Baelish should have lasted longer than Cersei, but i also believe they both should be deader than dead before the war, Cersei mostly.



    How and why? Serious question.

    Iíll start with the why


    1) Aside from Daenerys, who wants the Throne, no other surviving character should have a reason to want Cersei dead. From what I understand there was a deleted scene in the last episode where Sansa goes to Bran to ask about Baelish so Iím assuming he revealed how the Stark/Lannister feud was orchestrated by Little Finger. The Starks were maneuvered into kidnaping Tyrion which caused a retaliation against Ned and then everything snowballed. Also, Baelish and Olenna killed Joffery and let Sansa get blamed to even escalate the animosity. But the main characters should be aware of this next season.

    2) I know everyone is predicting either Jaime or Tyrion will strangle Cersei but theyíre still family and I think they love each other on some level. She could have had them both killed yet she didnít. I donít think theyíll kill her either and if they donít she should be safe. I believe that was the reason the valonqar part was left out of the tv prophesy.

    3) Assuming Jaime didnít take the Lannister army with him and assuming the Golden Company doesnít break their contract, thatís a formidable force she controls. Theyíll be fresh going up against a whittled down, battle weary army of whoever survives the White Walkers.

    4) For the most part Game of Thrones has been full of surprises when it comes to deaths. The ďgood guysĒ donít always win/live and the ďbad guysĒ donít always lose/die. Iíd be disappointed if both Jon and Dany defeat the Night King, kill Cersei and live happily ever after.

    5) Cersei is getting blamed for things that Tywin and Joffrey were responsible for. Now that the major players are gathering theyíll have a chance to talk and hopefully clear the air.

    6) Depending how you interpret Daenerys vision it could mean the Night King got past the North and attacked Kingís Landing. If thatís correct then the North is going to need Cerseiís armies, complete with elephants, ballistas, catapults, and vice versa.

    7) Even though everyone is saying no sequels Iíve heard that before. If ratings continue to climb I believe that HBO will ask for some type of sequel and money talks. Canít have a good sequel without the Queen that everyone loves to hate.



    Now to the How

    1) Most people seem to think that Jon and Dany are going to defeat the Night King and then move south and unseat Cersei. Thatís how it would go in a typical Hollywood movie but this hasnít been typical. I could see Jon and/or Dany dying and Cersei retaining the throne.

    2) Cersei is a survivor. Itís not out of the realm of possibility that she has an escape plan if things go bad. Take what gold she has left and flee to Essos. That might go against her nature but the last season or two all characters seem to be behaving differently.

    3) Even after all that has happened I think her brothers love her and I could see one or both brokering some type of deal to spare her life. Perhaps let her keep Casterly Rock.

    4) Itís still not too late for Cersei to redeem herself. If she commits her armies to join with the North and they turn the tide I donít see anyone killing her. Depending on who is left alive perhaps some sort of treaty is drawn up.
    "I wish you good fortune in the wars to come."

  5. #5330
    Formerly Blackdragon6 Emperor-of-Dragons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    I think even fans of hers would rather see her die than have her see some shameful bitter exile or yet another imprisonment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Peril View Post
    2) Cersei is a survivor. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that she has an escape plan if things go bad. Take what gold she has left and flee to Essos. That might go against her nature but the last season or two all characters seem to be behaving differently.
    Hhhmm.....

  6. #5331
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor-of-Dragons View Post
    Hhhmm.....
    Really, I'm sure some or many fans of Cersei, not all, would rather her go down fighting. I myself have no doubt she will. She's someone that confessed to almost throwing herself from the Red Keep (and this was before losing all her children). She won't go into exile.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 01-12-2018 at 06:43 AM.
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  7. #5332
    For honor... Madam-Shogun-Assassin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Peril View Post
    The “good guys” don’t always win/live and the “bad guys” don’t always lose/die. I’d be disappointed if both Jon and Dany defeat the Night King, kill Cersei and live happily ever after.
    I feel like this has been exaggerated to hell and back by people misinterpreting GRRM work.

  8. #5333
    Incredible Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Peril View Post
    I’ll start with the why


    1) Aside from Daenerys, who wants the Throne, no other surviving character should have a reason to want Cersei dead. From what I understand there was a deleted scene in the last episode where Sansa goes to Bran to ask about Baelish so I’m assuming he revealed how the Stark/Lannister feud was orchestrated by Little Finger. The Starks were maneuvered into kidnaping Tyrion which caused a retaliation against Ned and then everything snowballed. Also, Baelish and Olenna killed Joffery and let Sansa get blamed to even escalate the animosity. But the main characters should be aware of this next season.

    2) I know everyone is predicting either Jaime or Tyrion will strangle Cersei but they’re still family and I think they love each other on some level. She could have had them both killed yet she didn’t. I don’t think they’ll kill her either and if they don’t she should be safe. I believe that was the reason the valonqar part was left out of the tv prophesy.

    3) Assuming Jaime didn’t take the Lannister army with him and assuming the Golden Company doesn’t break their contract, that’s a formidable force she controls. They’ll be fresh going up against a whittled down, battle weary army of whoever survives the White Walkers.

    4) For the most part Game of Thrones has been full of surprises when it comes to deaths. The “good guys” don’t always win/live and the “bad guys” don’t always lose/die. I’d be disappointed if both Jon and Dany defeat the Night King, kill Cersei and live happily ever after.

    5) Cersei is getting blamed for things that Tywin and Joffrey were responsible for. Now that the major players are gathering they’ll have a chance to talk and hopefully clear the air.

    6) Depending how you interpret Daenerys vision it could mean the Night King got past the North and attacked King’s Landing. If that’s correct then the North is going to need Cersei’s armies, complete with elephants, ballistas, catapults, and vice versa.

    7) Even though everyone is saying no sequels I’ve heard that before. If ratings continue to climb I believe that HBO will ask for some type of sequel and money talks. Can’t have a good sequel without the Queen that everyone loves to hate.



    Now to the How

    1) Most people seem to think that Jon and Dany are going to defeat the Night King and then move south and unseat Cersei. That’s how it would go in a typical Hollywood movie but this hasn’t been typical. I could see Jon and/or Dany dying and Cersei retaining the throne.

    2) Cersei is a survivor. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that she has an escape plan if things go bad. Take what gold she has left and flee to Essos. That might go against her nature but the last season or two all characters seem to be behaving differently.

    3) Even after all that has happened I think her brothers love her and I could see one or both brokering some type of deal to spare her life. Perhaps let her keep Casterly Rock.

    4) It’s still not too late for Cersei to redeem herself. If she commits her armies to join with the North and they turn the tide I don’t see anyone killing her. Depending on who is left alive perhaps some sort of treaty is drawn up.
    Just saying; if word gets out that Jon is the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, particularly to Cersei, she'll add his name to the top of the list, next to Dany, on people to kill to retain power. Besides which, since Jon has already thrown in with Dany, the North and her forces are on Cersei's list of enemies to deal with anyway.

  9. #5334
    Mighty Member Da Boat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    The only reason someone "cannot buy it" is if they are hellbent on not wanting to buy it.
    Dude, you are probably the only dude I've ever seen that buys it! LOL Littlefinger is much smarter than this! He plays the long game, the way acted in this matter was stupid as Hell. It's like you are trying to defend this bad writing for whatever reasons. Things fell into place cause of a convenient way.

    Arya was literally holding the dagger that he had given Bran. It would have freaked him out, especially since he was in her home.
    So?

    And playing the long game doesn't mean delaying the deaths of immediate threats. He got Lord Arryn, Ned, Roz, Robb & Catelyn, Joffrey, the jester guy and Lysa out of the way when they proved too threatening to associate with (in the case of Roz and Lysa) or when he needed them to die (the others). When she visited his brothel, even Olenna knew there was a chance Littlefinger could off her if he suspected she would reveal his involvement in Joffrey's murder, hence she immediately threatened him with the repercussions.
    He just met Arya though, The guy is pretty intelligent, he learns about his surroundings. Baelish knows everything.

    People seemed to fill it just fine.
    And that's the problem.


    So you are saying Littlefinger would be dumb enough to underestimate Arya because she is a child while arguing he's too smart to go down like this? And uh, how does one not freak out when Bran basically says he knows you played a part in his father's death?
    I'm saying he didn't need to be overexcited. Not his style anyway.



    And how was he going to prove the child was his exactly? And even if he somehow could, it was still a bastard
    Maybe I'm wrong about this but if you have a child with someone and not married he is a bastard but if they marry afterwards, the situation changes. Anyway you make things change by royal decree(Ramsey Snow became Ramsey Bolton.

    and the Lords and Ladies of the Vale would have definitely turned on him if they had known he was sexually manipulating Sansa. They barely controlled themselves from executing him after Lysa's death, simply because Sansa testified that he had her best interests in mind.
    But they were pretty dumb and it would be different if both Sansa and LF would team up to hide it. It's easily done at script level.


    Um, how is this supposed to work with Ramsay being... Ramsay?
    By being pretty nasty, by Baelish preparing her. I'm not saying Sansa would have left without a mark but I'm saying her killing Roose would have impressed Ramsey a lot.

    I don't think she expected Littlefinger to actually turn up. He had already burnt her before.
    I don't think LF not showing with the Vale was a possibilty. Anyway they did come up.


    Lol no. She despised him by Season 6 and was forced to call him for aid only because the other Northern Houses were unwilling to. And I highly doubt the Lords of the Vale and the Stark allegiants would have supported Baelish marrying Sansa. Sansa realized that even if she had Baelish executed, the Lords of the Vale would still support the Starks, probably even moreso as they never liked him to begin with.
    She would less hate him if he would have prepared her, that's the point. And the Lords of the Vale go by what that kid is telling them via his favorite uncle. The Starks may have hate it but that's where the Arya-Sansa confrontation would have been interesting. Compared to the crap we got.


    Again... how is Littlefinger the biggest threat to Jon when the White Walkers have invaded the North?
    Because there's not just the White Walkers in Game of Thrones. And like I mentioned Baelish could bargain with them. The Walkers are not just zombies. They are doing this for a reason.

    Or why would Littlefinger if he even had the slightest shred of intelligence want to kill Jon when he knows he's the best chance they've got against the zombie winter apocalypse?
    How about when it's all over?

    There's literally no reason to keep Baelish around other than for pandering purposes. The only reason he could survive longer in the books is due to the Sansa and Fake Arya/Ramsay plots being completely separate and Littlefinger/Sansa probably still being in The Vale even until A Hope for Spring or whatever the last book is called, if it ever comes out.
    I don't understand the argument to kill him, either. I want him to keep going cause the best thing about Game of Thrones is the polticial games! Not the freaking zombies. And he's the ultimate player! Sure he is bad and manipulative but that is why him getting at the top would be awesome.
    Last edited by Da Boat; 01-13-2018 at 02:51 AM.

  10. #5335
    Mighty Member Da Boat's Avatar
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    Furthermore, Baelish should have been defeated and possibly killed when it would have been revealed at the very end that he started the war that caused the rebellion to begin with. Littlefinger loved Catelyn, she was supposed to marry Brandon Stark but he and his father got burned by the Mad King. LF could have pissed in everyone's hear that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna Stark. And then go to the Mad King and tell him disgusting stuff. The rejected little guy would have started it all up. That has an amazing ring to it.

  11. #5336
    New and Improved hulahulk's Avatar
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    You're saying Baelish would have/could have negotiated something with the Night King? Yes, the undead hordes are doing this for a reason. But I'm sure it's beyond Westeros' mortals abilities to just have a pow-pow with him. So far, he hasn't even shown any forms of communication with humans.
    Last edited by hulahulk; 01-13-2018 at 07:33 AM.
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  12. #5337
    Mighty Member Da Boat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hulahulk View Post
    You're saying Baelish would have/could have negotiated something with the Night King? Yes, the undead hordes are doing this for a reason. But I'm sure it's beyond Westeros' mortals abilities to just have a pow-pow with him. So far, he hasn't even shown any forms of communication with humans.
    That's one idea I suggested. Baelish usually was great on his feet too like when he threw Robin's mother in the Moon Window. So let's say it's the end of the series, everyone is at King's Landing in the Throne room. Dany has been pregnant since we last saw her, the baby is due and she is also there with all the other characters, Gilly is assisting her cause the baby is about to come out, the White Walkers crashed the doors, they come in and someone(could have been Baelish or someone else) give Dany's baby to the Night King(while she is crying and want none of it). That would be a form of truce. Uniting Fire + Ice.

    But I think Westeros must of have books or written stuff in some places with the knowledge of how the World came to be. All everybody are focusing on are the way to beat the Walkers by force but I'm willing to bet that the top Walkers like the Night King have deeper motives where maybe someone on the human side could learn about a deal that was made between the Walkers and Humans a long time ago. I mean I couldn't imagine having one last season and not learning the origin of the Walkers beyond "they are monsters". Intelligent people like Baelish or Sam could found out what it is.
    Last edited by Da Boat; 01-14-2018 at 02:57 AM.

  13. #5338
    Mighty Member Johnny Peril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Just saying; if word gets out that Jon is the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, particularly to Cersei, she'll add his name to the top of the list, next to Dany, on people to kill to retain power. Besides which, since Jon has already thrown in with Dany, the North and her forces are on Cersei's list of enemies to deal with anyway.
    “Every villain is a hero in his own mind.” Cersei believes she is the legitimate ruler of the Seven Kingdoms, Daenerys is a foreign would be usurper, Jon is a traitorous b*****d from a family of traitors, and the North are all rebels. And all of them want her dead. I don’t think finding out about Jon’s lineage would make too much difference to Cersei since she’s not even taking Dany’s claim seriously. However, she’s not her father, she seems to have a measure of respect for the Starks and understands they’re the key to controlling the North. Ideally she doesn’t want Jon dead just as ideally she didn’t want Ned or Robb dead. She wants the King/Warden of the North to bend the knee, go back home, and stay out of her business. Bottom line; I don’t see Cersei trying to assassinate Jon or orchestrating some type of “red wedding” event, she’s a blunt instrument not a scalpel. Most likely she’ll wait until the North is sufficiently weakened then send in her armies.
    "I wish you good fortune in the wars to come."

  14. #5339
    Mighty Member Johnny Peril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Planner View Post
    Yeap.Cercei's role is to be the destroyer of Lannisters.Book Cercei is Joffrey with more restrains.TV Cercei,while more sane than her book counterpart,is as stupid and elitist as a spoiled queen can be.She wants to be Tywin,but she's too cruel and not bright enough for that.

    Jaime and Cercei will die,probably together,s they came to this world together.Tyrion is the only one of the Lannisters that i can see surviving.
    Thatís interesting. Iíve read many comments implying that Cersei is unintelligent while Tywin is a brilliant strategist but if you think about it the current plight of the Lannister house is due to Tywin's poor machinations. Joffreyís death, Myrcellaís death, his death, Tyrion joining Daenerys, creating a schism with the North, creating a schism with Dorne. The only questionable thing Cersei did was underestimate the High Sparrow and overestimate Tommen and that was only because she was trying to clean up Tywinís mess (bringing Margaery into the family).
    "I wish you good fortune in the wars to come."

  15. #5340
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Peril View Post
    but if you think about it the current plight of the Lannister house is due to Tywin's poor machinations.
    Only if you count "not murdering his own daughter" (and his grandson (Joffrey)) as one of Tywin's poorest tactical decisions.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 01-16-2018 at 02:42 PM.
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