1. #18811
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightwingIvI View Post
    If Harley's too big for Batman, she's definitely too big for Nightwing.

    It'd actually kind of make sense because both are sidekicks (or henchwoman) of sorts that stepped out on their own, but Harley is too insufferable for me to appreciate that similarity.
    I didn't know she was too big for Batman, her stock rose more than I thought or was aware of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    She's too much of a solo act. Just like Slade, who otherwise would be a great nemesis for Dick.

    That said, Im not against the idea of these two interacting on occasion. The fact that they're both former sidekicks provides a unique viewpoint that few others can understand, and I think the dynamic between them could be a lot of fun now that Harley's moved solidly into anti-hero territory.

    So I wouldn't be against a guest appearance or even a brief crossover between books, but Harley's not going to be part of anyone's rogues gallery anytime soon, if ever again.
    Yeah, I suppose a pop-in every once in a while would do. Consistency is the key; I didn't like Helena's involvement in Nightwing, since she was in and out.

  2. #18812
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    I am very nave about Nightwing. Who are his major antagonists? ie. Batman -> Joker, Superman -> Lex Luthor. etc. I can understand Nightwing not having a Nemesis to that degree (Wonder Woman should be a rank above and I don't know her Nemesis), but who are HIS enemies?

    [I am trying to branch out from my favourites. I recognize that I don't have the comic background that I should but I'm willing to learn]

  3. #18813
    Long Live The Phantom Aioros22's Avatar
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    Harley Queen is the new Deathstroke. Her stock in the franchise merits a placement on her own, why would she be a nemesis of Grayson? Because of unrequited sex from a movie?
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  4. #18814

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    Quote Originally Posted by K Nikk View Post
    I am very nave about Nightwing. Who are his major antagonists? ie. Batman -> Joker, Superman -> Lex Luthor. etc. I can understand Nightwing not having a Nemesis to that degree (Wonder Woman should be a rank above and I don't know her Nemesis), but who are HIS enemies?

    [I am trying to branch out from my favourites. I recognize that I don't have the comic background that I should but I'm willing to learn]
    Raptor, Blockbuster. The current arc is still developing the Judge, and many older villains are just irrelevant now. Not too many others, honestly. He has a lot of shared villains, i.e Deathstroke or Dr. Hurt.

  5. #18815
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Nikk View Post
    I am very nave about Nightwing. Who are his major antagonists? ie. Batman -> Joker, Superman -> Lex Luthor. etc. I can understand Nightwing not having a Nemesis to that degree (Wonder Woman should be a rank above and I don't know her Nemesis), but who are HIS enemies?

    [I am trying to branch out from my favourites. I recognize that I don't have the comic background that I should but I'm willing to learn]
    Nightwing's enemies are the Editorial and Creative Staffs at DC.

  6. #18816
    Mighty Member nightbird's Avatar
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    Last edited by nightbird; 01-10-2018 at 12:07 PM.

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  8. #18818
    Mighty Member ayanestar's Avatar
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    I kinda have to catch up with quite a lot of comics lol I've been out of the loop for like months because of work and university.
    I've seen that I've missed out on so much including the Metal crossover (there are quite a lot tie-ins) so yeah would anyone be so nice to tell me if I've missed anything important? Anything related to Dick?

  9. #18819
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayanestar View Post
    I kinda have to catch up with quite a lot of comics lol I've been out of the loop for like months because of work and university.
    I've seen that I've missed out on so much including the Metal crossover (there are quite a lot tie-ins) so yeah would anyone be so nice to tell me if I've missed anything important? Anything related to Dick?
    You're not missing anything. Book is Dicked Out and useless. Wait for the trade paperback (not the hardcover--wait for the trade).

  10. #18820
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    Harley Queen is the new Deathstroke. Her stock in the franchise merits a placement on her own, why would she be a nemesis of Grayson? Because of unrequited sex from a movie?
    Nah, no specific reason for the suggestion, we were kinda just throwing names out there and I hadn't seen hers yet. I haven't seen the movie you're referencing.

  11. #18821
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    I've said this before but I don't think it is possible to build a rogues gallery for a character in modern comics. I don't know how many years it has been now where people are still having the same conversation about Nightwing and his "rogues". Characters that have rogues galleries only have them because they have had them for decades and they were grandfathered in. I still stand by this statement and I've seen nothing to dissuade me from it. So spending so much time and effort in trying to build a rogues gallery for a character that doesn't have one on the level of Batman or Spider-man is a waste of time, in my opinion.

    I'm not saying stop making new villains, but I think you have to build villains that will fit into the DCU instead of just for one specific character these days. It is also important to use villains across the DC. If you want to write an arc where Circe faces off against Nightwing then do it. I just don't understand limiting yourself to just a small handful of villains (most of which no one cares about) when the DCU has them in abidance. Maybe there are limitations across different editorial groups, but I think the notion of "building a rogues gallery for a character" is just such an archaic way to write comics.

  12. #18822
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I've said this before but I don't think it is possible to build a rogues gallery for a character in modern comics. I don't know how many years it has been now where people are still having the same conversation about Nightwing and his "rogues". Characters that have rogues galleries only have them because they have had them for decades and they were grandfathered in. I still stand by this statement and I've seen nothing to dissuade me from it. So spending so much time and effort in trying to build a rogues gallery for a character that doesn't have one on the level of Batman or Spider-man is a waste of time, in my opinion.

    I'm not saying stop making new villains, but I think you have to build villains that will fit into the DCU instead of just for one specific character these days. It is also important to use villains across the DC. If you want to write an arc where Circe faces off against Nightwing then do it. I just don't understand limiting yourself to just a small handful of villains (most of which no one cares about) when the DCU has them in abidance. Maybe there are limitations across different editorial groups, but I think the notion of "building a rogues gallery for a character" is just such an archaic way to write comics.
    I think having a rotating roster of recurring villains is just an expected trait for ongoing, serialized, comics because it gives writers something to build from and work with for that character that you don't really get with random villain of the weeks with no connection that hero.

    You can probably use other, already existing, DC villains but then people will probably get the idea that you're trying to re-appropriate those characters for that heroes Rogues Gallery, or otherwise just feel like a one-off.

  13. #18823
    Incredible Member Elegant Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    Nightwing's enemies are the Editorial and Creative Staffs at DC.
    I knew I wasn't crazy! I was right all along about Dick Grayson's true foes!

  14. #18824
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think having a rotating roster of recurring villains is just an expected trait for ongoing, serialized, comics because it gives writers something to build from and work with for that character that you don't really get with random villain of the weeks with no connection that hero.

    You can probably use other, already existing, DC villains but then people will probably get the idea that you're trying to re-appropriate those characters for that heroes Rogues Gallery, or otherwise just feel like a one-off.
    That is the case for characters who are secure in their position, like a Spider-man, Batman or a Superman. Creators can build on those characters because they aren't in danger of having their foundation erased. A character like a Nightwing or characters of his level are in a state of flux. Creators are constantly trying to rebuild the character or reboots are wiping the slate clean. So very rarely do things stick to the character.

    Also arcs today rarely are "one-offs". They tend to last for multiple issues, and you aren't really just throwing out a villain from a different franchise for an issue or two, but would be building an entire arc around that villain and story. Though I suppose it is also a difference in philosophy. DC tends to keep its properties very segmented while Marvel feels a lot more fluid where its characters dip in and out of franchises and move around the MCU fighting villains and problems all over the place.

    Again I didn't say just use all existing villains and you should still create new ones, but I think the mindset of wanting to "create a rogues gallery for X character" is a very flawed one for modern comics. The days of introducing a new villain every issue are long gone and characters just don't quickly develop this deep pool of villains to use anymore where some stick around. Creators are basically building their runs around a few villains and if none of them stick you are basically back to square one with the new creative team. It is a cycle that keeps repeating over and over.

  15. #18825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegant Dreamer View Post
    I knew I wasn't crazy! I was right all along about Dick Grayson's true foes!
    After reading about Dick Grayson for over sixty unbroken years--you start noticing certain trends (maybe because you're constantly being bludgeoned over the head with them because lazy DC knows no other way).

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