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  1. #61
    Swordsman Supreme R0NIN's Avatar
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    NW.jpg

    I wish I knew who drew it. I just found it online.

  2. #62
    Swordsman Supreme R0NIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neowing View Post
    Don't fight it brah, It's gonna happen, like father, like son.
    I disagree. Their upbringing, career, and character are vastly different.
    Last edited by R0NIN; 05-02-2014 at 09:37 AM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropkickjake View Post
    Nah. Nightwing is also too dark a name for Dick's personality. The contrast would make it work. Also, flamebird is, admittedly, slightly reminiscent of the term "flamer," but its not like the "batman and robin are gay" jokes haven't happened already. They'd be no harder to ignore for nightwing and flamebird.
    Lol I didn't say anything about "flamer", you're mixing me up with son of booyah.

    Anyway, it's just an aesthetic taste of mine that I just can't see Damian wearing the Flamebird costume, not really a whole lot of room for a real debate here.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0NIN View Post
    I hate that Batman is the center of that different variations of Dick Grayson Daniels piece. I can't wait for the day DC wakes up and realizes that Dick Grayson can be so much more than Batman lite.
    DC didn't commission that piece. It was a personal commission by some dude, and thats what he wanted.

  5. #65
    Incredible Member dropkickjake's Avatar
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    Fair enough, my friend.

  6. #66
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacosy View Post
    Got to love the disco suit.
    And yet the "disco suit" has apparently been replaced / retconned out of New 52 continuity now.

    I know in previews for Red Hood and the Outlaws #6 they had




    but in the tpb collection I recently read, they had changed the yellow to red.

    001.jpg

  7. #67
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    That is such an ugly Nightwing design. Worse than his New 52 Robin costume. No idea why Dick has such terrible costumes in the reboot, haha. Also Lobdell's dialogue is so bad. So heavy-handed. Don't get why people are excited he is back on Outlaws.



    Anyway, guess I'll repeat my whole stance on the new Grayson book just so it is on record again and I can get it out of my system. xD

    I do like the creative team on Grayson. I think they are talented, probably the most talented team to use the character since he was Batman, but I am still not sold on the direction. To me it still sort of feels like they don't know what to do with the character in the reboot and this is sort of a way to take him off the table so they don't have to deal with him now. First of all I think unmasking the character is going to turn out to be a completely stupid idea because he doesn't know know anyone in the reboot nor does anyone really knows him. So the impact of it is completely lost. It was a complete waste of a gimmick that they will have to figure out some way to undo over the next few years. No one seems to have any interest in dealing with it even. Simone even passed over the trouble of dealing with it in that Batgirl issue to that fill in writer. So him having to miss interesting events like Eternal because of it isn't worth having his identity exposed, imo.

    Also I don't think further isolating and distancing the character from the main DC characters and stories is good for the character in the long run. It's the exact opposite of what he needed in my opinion. Maybe Grayson will lead to some nice stories for a little while, and I hope it does, but I don't have much confidence that once Grayson changes direction again the stories will lead to much and will probably be ignored like usual whenever Grayson/Nightwing gets another new direction. You look at a character like Harley Quinn and how they built up an identity and role for her outside the Batman line. She became the face of Suicide Squad and has all these new connections and relationships that writers are building on and her character's stock has really risen quite high as a result. So until they build an identity for his character outside the Batman line and is allowed to interact with other DCU characters and be involved in the DCU world again instead of being secluded to his own little corner of Batman's world his character will continue to struggle to find a solid direction.


    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyZERO View Post
    I wonder what's the original plan for Dick post Forever Evil, resurrection as Talon?
    I don't think there was a plan. Johns just needed to do something shocking (unmasking Nightwing) but I don't think he had any interest in what happened to the character afterwards. He just tossed his mess over to Bat editorial to deal with. He was probably going to be the blonde character we saw in the Thanksgiving teaser image, but after the lead Batman editor left they might have decided to not involve him in Eternal because they didn't want to deal with at the moment.

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member Monkey Astronaut's Avatar
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    One of my all time favorite Dick Grayson panels from Batman #514.

    "It is wrong to assume that art needs the spectator in order to be. The film runs on without any eyes. The spectator cannot exist without it. It ensures his existence." -- James Douglas Morrison

  9. #69
    Rookie Member Just Is's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    That is such an ugly Nightwing design. Worse than his New 52 Robin costume. No idea why Dick has such terrible costumes in the reboot, haha. Also Lobdell's dialogue is so bad. So heavy-handed. Don't get why people are excited he is back on Outlaws.



    Anyway, guess I'll repeat my whole stance on the new Grayson book just so it is on record again and I can get it out of my system. xD

    I do like the creative team on Grayson. I think they are talented, probably the most talented team to use the character since he was Batman, but I am still not sold on the direction. To me it still sort of feels like they don't know what to do with the character in the reboot and this is sort of a way to take him off the table so they don't have to deal with him now. First of all I think unmasking the character is going to turn out to be a completely stupid idea because he doesn't know know anyone in the reboot nor does anyone really knows him. So the impact of it is completely lost. It was a complete waste of a gimmick that they will have to figure out some way to undo over the next few years. No one seems to have any interest in dealing with it even. Simone even passed over the trouble of dealing with it in that Batgirl issue to that fill in writer. So him having to miss interesting events like Eternal because of it isn't worth having his identity exposed, imo.

    Also I don't think further isolating and distancing the character from the main DC characters and stories is good for the character in the long run. It's the exact opposite of what he needed in my opinion. Maybe Grayson will lead to some nice stories for a little while, and I hope it does, but I don't have much confidence that once Grayson changes direction again the stories will lead to much and will probably be ignored like usual whenever Grayson/Nightwing gets another new direction. You look at a character like Harley Quinn and how they built up an identity and role for her outside the Batman line. She became the face of Suicide Squad and has all these new connections and relationships that writers are building on and her character's stock has really risen quite high as a result. So until they build an identity for his character outside the Batman line and is allowed to interact with other DCU characters and be involved in the DCU world again instead of being secluded to his own little corner of Batman's world his character will continue to struggle to find a solid direction.




    I don't think there was a plan. Johns just needed to do something shocking (unmasking Nightwing) but I don't think he had any interest in what happened to the character afterwards. He just tossed his mess over to Bat editorial to deal with. He was probably going to be the blonde character we saw in the Thanksgiving teaser image, but after the lead Batman editor left they might have decided to not involve him in Eternal because they didn't want to deal with at the moment.
    Absolutely agree. There clearly was no plan for Dick afterwords other than him being off the table as a character. Theres just too much evidence to say there was one in place. I mean they're even rewriting the entirety of its final issue with a new creative team.

    The character was used in the story as a plot device with absolutely no agency. The things John's mentioned in interviews never reflected a single thing shown on panel in regards to Dick and were heavily based on pre new 52.

    I mean...to take the single most connected hero in the DC verse and isolate him...and the solution is to isolate him even further? Saddening even if I think the creative team for Grayson could be good.

  10. #70
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    Didio wanted Dick Grayson out of his sight. End of. If he doesn't sell without a mask, he's toast.

  11. #71
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    I wouldn't assume they're going to isolate him more from the DCU. Spy agencies are a huge part of the DCU, whether it's ARGUS, SHADE, etc. There's no reason he can't run into other characters.

  12. #72
    Invincible Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0NIN View Post
    I hate that Batman is the center of that different variations of Dick Grayson Daniels piece. I can't wait for the day DC wakes up and realizes that Dick Grayson can be so much more than Batman lite.
    That's the thing, he was never Batman-lite, even when he was Batman. He was entirely distinguishable from Bruce from an emotional, motivational, and attitude perspective.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    Didio wanted Dick Grayson out of his sight. End of. If he doesn't sell without a mask, he's toast.
    No, not really.

  14. #74
    Inquisitive Dzetoun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I do like the creative team on Grayson. I think they are talented, probably the most talented team to use the character since he was Batman, but I am still not sold on the direction. To me it still sort of feels like they don't know what to do with the character in the reboot and this is sort of a way to take him off the table so they don't have to deal with him now.
    But how is giving him his own book with a very talented creative team "taking him off the table?" Especially when said book will, as I understand it, still be edited by the Batman Office? That hardly constitutes not dealing with the character.

    First of all I think unmasking the character is going to turn out to be a completely stupid idea because he doesn't know know anyone in the reboot nor does anyone really knows him. So the impact of it is completely lost. It was a complete waste of a gimmick that they will have to figure out some way to undo over the next few years. No one seems to have any interest in dealing with it even. Simone even passed over the trouble of dealing with it in that Batgirl issue to that fill in writer. So him having to miss interesting events like Eternal because of it isn't worth having his identity exposed, imo.
    But we've barely got to the issues that are supposed to be dealing with it. And why would the only impact worth dealing with be that on a wide part of the DCU? Wouldn't the impact on Dick himself, yes and those closest to him, be worth examining?

    Also I don't think further isolating and distancing the character from the main DC characters and stories is good for the character in the long run. It's the exact opposite of what he needed in my opinion. Maybe Grayson will lead to some nice stories for a little while, and I hope it does, but I don't have much confidence that once Grayson changes direction again the stories will lead to much and will probably be ignored like usual whenever Grayson/Nightwing gets another new direction. You look at a character like Harley Quinn and how they built up an identity and role for her outside the Batman line. She became the face of Suicide Squad and has all these new connections and relationships that writers are building on and her character's stock has really risen quite high as a result. So until they build an identity for his character outside the Batman line and is allowed to interact with other DCU characters and be involved in the DCU world again instead of being secluded to his own little corner of Batman's world his character will continue to struggle to find a solid direction.

    I don't think there was a plan. Johns just needed to do something shocking (unmasking Nightwing) but I don't think he had any interest in what happened to the character afterwards. He just tossed his mess over to Bat editorial to deal with. He was probably going to be the blonde character we saw in the Thanksgiving teaser image, but after the lead Batman editor left they might have decided to not involve him in Eternal because they didn't want to deal with at the moment.
    Well, what if someone at DC said something like this: "It's funny, but for about three years now the internet (we have it in New York, you know, and we even use it from time to time) has been practically bleeding with complaints about how Dick Grayson can't get out of Batman's shadow, how he is constantly pulled into every crossover that Scott Snyder leads, how he doesn't ever get a good creative team, how he never gets interesting storylines, how we never have the courage to do anything interesting or original with him, how he's lost all his connections in the reboot and needs to make new ones, how the darkness of Gotham in the New 52 isn't a fit for Dick's personality, and on and on and on. Well, now he has an up-and-coming hot-commodity creative team. We are trying something new and different. For the first time since the days of the Titans, he will be away from Batman with a definitive chance to step out of his shadow. He will be able to build totally new connections outside of Gotham and the Bat Family, the very kind of connections that fans say they miss so badly. And we have even taken firm steps to isolate him from those crossovers that everyone says they hate so very, very much. Maybe, just maybe, it might pay off to give us ten minutes to try and please you? After all, we aren't going anywhere (well, we are, but you know how to find us in California as well as New York). If you don't like what we do, the internet lines to California will carry the displeasure just as efficiently as the ones to New York ever did." That wouldn't be an unreasonable request, would it, even from a tiny little division of Warner Bros?

  15. #75
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Is View Post
    Absolutely agree. There clearly was no plan for Dick afterwords other than him being off the table as a character. Theres just too much evidence to say there was one in place. I mean they're even rewriting the entirety of its final issue with a new creative team.

    The character was used in the story as a plot device with absolutely no agency. The things John's mentioned in interviews never reflected a single thing shown on panel in regards to Dick and were heavily based on pre new 52.

    I mean...to take the single most connected hero in the DC verse and isolate him...and the solution is to isolate him even further? Saddening even if I think the creative team for Grayson could be good.
    We don't know if he's gonna be isolated. There is a lot of new people he can interact with in this spy world, people that he wouldn't have necessarily interacted with before.

    Quite frankly this is a long time coming. They haven't known what to do with Nightwing for a long time. This was a problem for Dick before the new 52, but then they made him Batman with Damian and so he had something to do for a time. But then with the 52 they made him Nightwing again like nothing has change, even though a lot has change. So now they were back with having the same problem, to before they made him Batman, where he was stuck in this place where they didn't really know what to do with him, but at the same time didn't want to take a chance at having him do something new. Which is a terrible place for the character.
    Now though he's with out any of the old fall backs, because those have been repurposed so they could keep other characters around. Leaving him in a position where if they really were gonna do anything with him, it now kind of had to be something new. Its sucks that he had to lose so much for them to finally get here, but i still think its good that they are finally trying something with Dick. Putting him in new and uncharted territory, where the character can experience new things to fill those holes he was left with, and meet new kinds of people. Hopefully they don't drop the ball.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 05-02-2014 at 11:00 PM.

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