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  1. #76
    Hawkman's Buddy Mar-Vell's Avatar
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    Yeah he is, and Clark Kent is the nerdy white man stereotype.

    Oh well, life goes on.
    Inspired by SJNeal
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    Member since Jan 2008.
    Forgot prior post count, but it was in the thousands.

  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshal99 View Post
    John secretly wants to be Hal.



    Stelfreeze. Always liked his covers and his rare interior art. But this must be one of his earliest works, because the name didn't stand out, and here I am surprised to see it. And I read "Mosaic" at the time. I liked it very much. Small wonder.

    But you know he wasn't half as angry as Luke Cage was. Nor half the stereotype.

  3. #78
    Daisy don't give a... Crazy Diamond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    No one said anything about white vs. black. You're projecting that onto this debate. Who cares whether Carol is white or black, she was still the puppet of the Zamarons and Star Sapphire. She didn't have control over her actions when she killed Katma Tui. John should have been smart enough to separate his feelings and realize that, but no. Of course, John has to be angry or else, how else is he interesting?
    You have no sense of humor. There's a reason why I put that first sentence in italics. Puppet or not, she was still a threat who had already killed one person. If someone came along and killed your wife, framed you for a murder you didn't commit, you wouldn't have been angry? Actually, there is a racial subtext to that though I doubt you'd realize it. I guess if you feel this way about ink on paper, I can imagine what happens when you do encounter an "Angry Black Person".


    Uh, we can't know that. If John had actually listened to J'onn instead of acting the way he did, who is to say that the they couldn't have worked together to disarm it? If it was on fire, John could have put out the fire. Then, J'onn could have just flown it into space.
    Of course, that's not what actually happened in the story. It was a crap plot device regardless. Someone had to fail and it wasn't gonna be Superman...

    And, on another note, the deaths caused by Hal Jordan as Parallax were not ignored. They were dealt with. He went on a mission to rescue the "Lost Lanterns" and event spent months being an outcast within the Corps because the rest of the Corps members didn't trust. Eventually, he earned it back. THAT'S dealing with it.
    John Stewart fails to save a planet, years of stories dealing with his guilt.

    Jordan kills millions due to ZERO HOUR, oh it was a yellow space bug that made him evil. Destroys the GLC and puts many planets in danger? Eh, who cares.

    As for the Lost Lanterns, how many of them are still around? I know Jack T. Chance and Laira were killed off and they still hated Jordan after he saved them. Same with Boodikka who was then turned into an Alpha Lantern and had her whole background retconed by Johns. The only ones who are relevant are Arisia and Garen Tof, one who dated Jordan and wasn't even present during Emerald Twilight (how she got caught I don't know) and the other who forgave him. Not to mention the scene in the cafeteria where that one alien was made to look like a bigot for daring to have problems with a guy who killed his partner and got pardoned for it.

    Well, first off, like I said earlier, it was dealt with in Hal's case. Second, how does your stigma that Johns "doesn't know how to write women" even factor into this debate? And third, obviously you don't know what you're talking about because you've obviously never read his Teen Titans run, where he wrote Starfire, Raven, and Wonder Girl beautifully or his Aquaman run where he write Mera very well as well.
    No, I sadly tried to read his Titans run when it came out. See, I actually used to like Johns due to JSA and the Flash. Then Young Justice got cancelled. I figured, "Hey, JSA's pretty good, I'm sure he'll do right by Tim, Cassie, Bart, and Kon-El.". Cassie goes from strong confident leader to woman who pines for Superboy to the point that she joins a cult dedicated to him after he dies. Kon-El goes from confident guy whose not ashamed of who he is to dude who worries that Luthor genes have corrupted him somehow. Bart goes from Impulse to Kid Flash II. Tim gradually becomes more and more like Dick Grayson.

    I can't speak on Mera, but I remember how bland Starfire and Raven were. Let's not even get started on how he handled (and in some cases still handles) Wonder Woman, Cyborg, Muhammad X (SMH), etc. Never read John's Aquaman and I won't.

    Well, Jordan really didn't kill millions. The body count in Emerald Twighlight wasn't that high. And even if he had killed the whole entire Green Lantern Corps, that'd be a couple thousand, compared to the billions that John let die on Xanshi. However, even without the whole Parallax thing, at least Hal had a compelling reason for attacking the Green Lantern Corps. I'm not justifying it, but at least Hal was trying to revive the millions that had died in Coast City after Mongul and Cyborg Superman's attack, which the Guardians forbade him from doing. John was just all "Ah, nah I don't need no Green Martian's help."
    Speaking of reviving the millions who died in Coast City? That's what led him to do things like destroy the GLC, put Guy in a second coma, and then kill everyone in the universe. Even during Emerald Twilight, I'm sure many beings died because the GL of their sector could no longer operate and that's assuming they weren't in space. No, Jordan didn't have a compelling reason for attacking the GLC. He couldn't get his way so he snapped. Of course, you don't see him as an "Angry White Man" for that, now do you? Meanwhile, John fails to save a planet and he's an "Angry Black Man". Your epidermis is showing.

  4. #79
    Daisy don't give a... Crazy Diamond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desh View Post
    I don't blame O'Neil, as if he wrote a bad depiction, or anything. The comic book was about confronting social issues that most comics were not confronting. Remember, this was back in 1971. I mean, if people are spraying people like you with high, HIGH pressure water hoses, sicking police dogs on people like you, refusing to serve them at eating establishments, refusing to hire you, and so on, all because of the way you look, who wouldn't be upset and angry about that? Seriously. I sense that when some accuse John Stewart of being an "angry black man," they are acting like he has absolutely no reason for being upset at the establishment. Maybe if angry white men wouldn't abuse black people, there wouldn't be any angry black men? Maybe?

    About Star Sapphire... let's see. She killed his wife and framed him for killing her alter-ego, Carol Ferris. I suppose John Stewart has no right to be upset about that at all, and if he is, he's an "angry black man" out to arbitrarily cause harm to white woman.
    Water hoses? I think the US Government and FBI in particular were at targeted assassinations at that point.

  5. #80
    Senior Member Lorendiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Diamond View Post
    Water hoses? I think the US Government and FBI in particular were at targeted assassinations at that point.
    Not sure what you're talking about. If the FBI, for instance, was in the habit of assassinating African-Americans (or anybody else) back around the late 60s/early 70s, I've never heard anything about it.

  6. #81
    Daisy don't give a... Crazy Diamond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorendiac View Post
    Not sure what you're talking about. If the FBI, for instance, was in the habit of assassinating African-Americans (or anybody else) back around the late 60s/early 70s, I've never heard anything about it.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cointelpro

    That's just a few.

  7. #82
    Senior Member Lorendiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Diamond View Post
    That was interesting. Near as I can recall, I've never even heard of Fred Hampton before. (Which shows you how much attention I've paid to the history of the Black Panthers.) I had heard of COINTELPRO, because I have read some critical books about the history of the FBI, but I don't recall if the needless death of Fred Hampton came up in those books. (It's been several years.)

  8. #83
    Always Rakzo
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    I think that I initially posted here without knowing that it actually was a character wars thread.

  9. #84
    Senior Member Lorendiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    I think that I initially posted here without knowing that it actually was a character wars thread.
    It's not a "character wars" thread for me. I've participated in some stimulating discussion in here, but I don't regard myself as having gotten mixed up in a "declaration of war" against any particular character or the fans of such a character.

  10. #85
    Always Rakzo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorendiac View Post
    It's not a "character wars" thread for me. I've participated in some stimulating discussion in here, but I don't regard myself as having gotten mixed up in a "declaration of war" against any particular character or the fans of such a character.
    I wasn't referring especifically to you but to the overall sentiment of this topic.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    Never thought of him that way, though now that you say it it's pretty clearly a valid interpretation. I just always thought of him as the boring grouch that was making my favorite show a little bit worse when I was a kid (though he was tolerable by the time of JLU when he'd undergone such a radical character evolution that he now possessed things like the ability to smile, take a joke and not just generally lower the mood wherever he went).
    You sure you didn't confuse him with Batman?

    "I haven't been a kid since I was 8 years old."

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