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  1. #46
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    I like Cassandra better as Batgirl, and Barbara better as Oracle.

  2. #47
    Radioactive Blight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoldoaad View Post
    I want to put this here as well as it is pretty much my favorite character moment of her

    Attachment 1232
    It is a great moment with the character. Do you find it hard for a specific moment? I do. I mean there's so many great moments she had in her ongoing and even in Red Robin.
    And behold I shall be a blight upon the land and everything I touch shall wither and die.

  3. #48
    Incredible Member Lorendiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zainu View Post
    I dunno, a lot of Asian groups tend to look alike. I'm three-quarters Taiwanese Hakka, but other Taiwanese people mistake me as a Korean exchange student sometimes.
    It did occur to me that I might be wasting my time by asking the question, but hey, what did I have to lose?

    It was also possible that someone would post a reply saying: "Gee, Panel 2 of that scanned page makes her look remarkably like some of my cousins from Hokkaido -- their ancestors have been living on that island for at least four hundred years and counting," or perhaps "she looks a heck of a lot like an immigrant from Tibet who sits right next to me in Biology 101," or whatever.

    I think one of the reasons I'd been wondering about "what sort of nationality did she appear to have when she debuted?" was that it's sometimes annoyed me that over the years, as different artists came and went, Cass's physical appearance seemed to vary drastically. You never quite knew if her eyes would be brown or green, if her hair would be jet-black or brown, if her cheekbones would seem to have gotten less pronounced, etc., not to mention how variable her complexion could be. (She wasn't much of a one for using lots of makeup, so I don't think that accounts for it.)

    I think I used to wonder if one artist wanted to make her look, let's say, Korean . . . and another wanted to make her look Vietnamese . . . and another thought she was supposed to look as if she had ancestry from a certain corner of China . . . and so forth. (That was a slightly more palatable idea than "the artists are too lazy to make any effort to respect what she originally looked like, so they just draw whatever seems 'cute' in an East Asian girl, according to their personal tastes!")
    Last edited by Lorendiac; 05-07-2014 at 11:31 AM.

  4. #49
    Radioactive Blight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorendiac View Post
    It did occur to me that I might be wasting my time by asking the question, but hey, what did I have to lose?

    It was also possible that someone would post a reply saying: "Gee, Panel 2 of that scanned page makes her look remarkably like some of my cousins from Hokkaido -- their ancestors have been living on that island for at least four hundred years and counting," or perhaps "she looks a heck of a lot like an immigrant from Tibet who sits right next to me in Biology 101," or whatever.

    I think one of the reasons I'd been wondering about "what sort of nationality did she appear to have when she debuted?" was that it's sometimes annoyed me that over the years, as different artists came and went, Cass's physical appearance seemed to vary drastically. You never quite knew if her eyes would be brown or green, if her hair would be jet-black or brown, if her cheekbones would seem to have gotten less pronounced, etc., not to mention how variable her complexion could be. (She wasn't much of a one for using lots of makeup, so I don't think that accounts for it.)

    I think I used to wonder if one artist wanted to make her look, let's say, Korean . . . and another wanted to make her look Vietnamese . . . and another thought she was supposed to look as if she had ancestry from a certain corner of China . . . and so forth. (That was a slightly more palatable idea than "the artists are too lazy to make any effort to respect what she originally looked like, so they just draw whatever seems 'cute' in an East Asian girl, according to their personal tastes!")
    Not to mention the various ways at first artists depicted her without scars on her form yet it was said she had some. Then finally we saw them in Batman & the Outsiders. Though I think for Damion Scott portion I think he tweaked her appearance also to convey the fact that it had been a year since Cass's first encounter with Shiva and the promise of a death duel. She does slightly look older from #9 to #25.
    And behold I shall be a blight upon the land and everything I touch shall wither and die.

  5. #50
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    The scar thing is kind of dumb across the board when it comes to the Bat-family. With all of the villains or just plain thugs that they've fought. With all of the times that they've been shot, stabbed, beaten severely, tortured, etc, they should all be covered in scars and burns. At least Arrow makes a point of acknowledging that GA and BC have lots of them.

  6. #51
    Rachel Grey-Summers Sardorim's Avatar
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    Cassandra Cain had a lot of scars and the such when she was still a hero.

    Than New 52 happened and where's my Cass?! Where's Black Bat?!

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    The scar thing is kind of dumb across the board when it comes to the Bat-family. With all of the villains or just plain thugs that they've fought. With all of the times that they've been shot, stabbed, beaten severely, tortured, etc, they should all be covered in scars and burns. At least Arrow makes a point of acknowledging that GA and BC have lots of them.
    Half the time they remember Bruce's, but yeah, pretty much everybody else kind of lacked any "mileage." And you could have some fun with it; maybe Dick and Tim have the same amount of scars thanks to Dick being better at dodging and Tim being relatively inexperienced in comparison, or Jason has some weird ones caused by the Lazarus Pit.

  8. #53
    Incredible Member Lorendiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blight View Post
    Not to mention the various ways at first artists depicted her without scars on her form yet it was said she had some. Then finally we saw them in Batman & the Outsiders. Though I think for Damion Scott portion I think he tweaked her appearance also to convey the fact that it had been a year since Cass's first encounter with Shiva and the promise of a death duel. She does slightly look older from #9 to #25.
    In one of my fanfics, I went with the idea that being dunked in a Lazarus Pit (in the final issues of her old solo series) removed all previous scar tissue. (I am aware of that later BATO story you mention in which one writer took a contrary position on that subject when she was walking around naked in one scene in front of Grace Choi and Anissa Pierce -- but I don't think I knew about that when I was writing that fanfic, and I'm not losing too much sleep over it.)

    Other characters who have the Lazarus Pit excuse for not being covered with scars (at least in the Pre-Flashpoint continuity) would include Batman, Jason Todd, and Black Canary II. Not to mention various other times when Batman (for instance) has "died" and then been "resurrected" in story arcs in other titles.

  9. #54
    Incredible Member John Venus's Avatar
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    For the Bat Clan as a whole, scars only appear when they are plot relevant. Nightwing was shown having scars in Peter Tomasis's 'Nightwing' run and back to being smooth as a dolphin in Tony Daniel's 'Batman' run.


  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    For the Bat Clan as a whole, scars only appear when they are plot relevant. Nightwing was shown having scars in Peter Tomasis's 'Nightwing' run and back to being smooth as a dolphin in Tony Daniel's 'Batman' run.

    Too true. Or Bruce as well being all scarred up during Hush.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sardorim View Post
    Cassandra Cain had a lot of scars and the such when she was still a hero.

    Than New 52 happened and where's my Cass?! Where's Black Bat?!

    Isn't that the question that we have to keep asking ourselves? Or should we keep asking DC Panels? Then again, do you want Cassandra reimagined in a way that'll be how they've reintroduced Stephanie? Or one were they are barely the character fans liked in New 52 version of Tim Drake?
    And behold I shall be a blight upon the land and everything I touch shall wither and die.

  11. #56
    Boba milk tea enthusiast Zainu's Avatar
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    Not even sure I want her introduced at all. I mean, I really loved her previous relationship with Babs, but with young Babsgirl...not sure how that's going to work. Plus, Gail is hell bent on making Cass-clones with her White Canaries and Strixes(okay, assassin background I could dig, but mute and had a bad assassin childhood that left her socially awkward too? ...such a shameless rip-off that I can't even believe it). Yeah, pre-Infinite Crisis, Barbara really played a big role in guiding Cassandra's life. Removing Oracle from Cass's narrative changes things.

    Buuut I can see how her story would work without Babs....Bruce finds her for one reason or another. She proves herself to him and his cause in the heat of battle. He sees the similarities between the two of them and adopts her so that he can bring her down a better direction than where's she's going. This would be a great place to show Batman actively mentoring a girl/daughter. Alfred is pleased to finally be able to raise a young lady(though scandalized when she turns out to be in dire need of etiquette 101 training. Being formerly homeless and all). Tim analyzes and figures out how to work around her brand of dyslexia and helps Cass grasp the alphabet and then words. In the end, they realize that while she can talk, if brought to it, she's more comfortable with the use of American Sign Language(learns it faster too). I'd love to see partnerships between her and Tim, and comparisons between their different styles of detective work/crime fighting.

    Maybe introduce her to the Teen Titans, so that Cass can get to know other heroes around her age. She comes out and kicks ass at night under Night Angel, since I abhor her Black Bat code-name and costume. Keep Brenda as a friend and let Cass discover what its like to have a civilian life. Cass and Jason might be able to share some things in common over their League of Assasins training/connections. Dick might drop by Gotham once every event and act as a big brother figure too. Not going to even comment about nuBabs, since I'd use sarcasm.

    Her costume can look like this:
    art.kenneth_rocafort.batgirl.jpg
    It was designed by Kenneth Rocafort and intended for Cass. I love both this and her original costume. Both are great.

    As for background, I'd make her mother Carolyn Wu and Richard Dragon, just to make it more interesting, since we've already seen how Shiva and Cain parentage played out. I always thought that Cain would always see her as his little girl/legacy, regardless of whether she was his blood or not. But her parentage can be kept at Shiva and Cain, because it adds the whole Nature AND Nurture being aligned against Cassandra, and how she triumphed in spite of it.
    She would still be trained from the moment she could form a fist, and brought to kill at a more or less tender age(10 or 11, instead of 7). Except, this time, she'd kill a Chicago mob boss, and wander America for five or so years before arriving in Gotham(making her 15 or 16).

    But, who am I kidding? Even if Cassandra's brought back, there is no way that she's going to get the page time and needed development that she had before. I don't trust any of the current Bat writers to get her right either...not even Snyder.
    Last edited by Zainu; 05-10-2014 at 02:31 PM.

  12. #57
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    I thought Gail had to create Cass clones because she couldn't use the original cass?

  13. #58
    Incredible Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    I thought Gail had to create Cass clones because she couldn't use the original cass?
    Highly possible. Snyder created Harper Row for the same reason.


  14. #59
    Radioactive Blight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    I thought Gail had to create Cass clones because she couldn't use the original cass?
    I don't think White Canary was ever meant to be a Cass clone given she was a villain in the Brightest Day arc of BoP she was introduced. Though she did get kind of New 52ed along with Cass. But Gail was trying to get Cass on the book at that time, but in a different way. Heck I think there was a solicitation teasing Cass wasn't there? That some teen hero who hasn't ever joined the team finally does to help them for their latest mission? It was that issue were Barbara makes the world think "Oracle" is dead.
    And behold I shall be a blight upon the land and everything I touch shall wither and die.

  15. #60
    Mind Controller Arnoldoaad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blight View Post
    It is a great moment with the character. Do you find it hard for a specific moment? I do. I mean there's so many great moments she had in her ongoing and even in Red Robin.
    not really
    to me this is the defining moment of the character
    with very little action and pretty much minimun dialog, this scene shows who she is and why she does what she does

    It is a great moment

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