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  1. #9991
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Twister View Post
    You know...I found that fitting. Nothing fancy and it's between two guys who despite their personal history more or less kinda grew tired of it. It's like a whole "let's just finish this" sort of thing though they gave their absolute best shot. I like the very subtle things that called back to Phantom Menace, from Old Ben changing his stance to Qui-Gon's and Maul's attempt to pull the exact small move that got Qui-Gon killed.
    and it shows how far maul had fallen. at that point, maul wasn't a threat to anyone, much less the sith and the empire.

    and obi-wan had gotten so strong that he really didn't want to fight maul in the first place.

  2. #9992
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy1 View Post
    spoilers:

    And thus The Jack Killers arrive.
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:

    And that's one down!
    end of spoilers
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  3. #9993
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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    they really went full dark with this.

  4. #9994
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    Quote Originally Posted by master of read View Post
    they really went full dark with this.
    Well of course they did. They're on Adult Swim, so they're allowed to do the shit Cartoon Network never let them do.
    Critics who treat adult as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence.
    - C.S. Lewis

  5. #9995
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dog View Post
    Well of course they did. They're on Adult Swim, so they're allowed to do the shit Cartoon Network never let them do.
    of course. i mean, i knew about the blood and shit but that thing with jack and what he was thinking.

  6. #9996
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    Quote Originally Posted by master of read View Post
    of course. i mean, i knew about the blood and shit but that thing with jack and what he was thinking.
    Oh, the suicidal thoughts. Well yeah, believing your mission is all but impossible and you're doomed to never age, so you're forced to deal with that pretty much forever will drive a man to consider suicide.
    Critics who treat adult as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence.
    - C.S. Lewis

  7. #9997
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dog View Post
    Oh, the suicidal thoughts. Well yeah, believing your mission is all but impossible and you're doomed to never age, so you're forced to deal with that pretty much forever will drive a man to consider suicide.
    and it's hard to see jack of all people think those thoughts, though very understandable.

  8. #9998
    Astonishing Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    It's this point here that's the rub, I find.

    Due to Western media being mostly created by white people, for white people and starring white people, some members of ethnic minorities feel that what should be their chance to explore characters that are explicitly for them/their culture get passed over to white people or viewed through the lens of a white person. This creates resentment because it implies that their views and experiences aren't worthy of being the primary viewpoint of the show.

    I think that my big view would be that I think Western media could do a lot more to reach out to try and represent minorities and the marginalised in a more nuanced way. As a white British dude who hails from one of the whiter areas of the UK, I'm acutely aware that I'll never understand or experience the sense of cultural isolation that members of marginalised groups have described to me or the experience of those groups in life so my only recourse is to push for more opportunities to redress the balance where possible and, honestly, I want more media that puts me into the shoes of groups I am not a member of because that's most interesting to me.

    Racial representation in art is an interesting topic.
    It's really no different for any country that is dominated by a specific ethnicity. Every country typically creates content for the racial identity that they share. It's not something that only white people do. Japan, China, India, etc, are no different in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    I don't think that's entirely a fair statement myself. First off, the casting ethnicity of your lead character is a valid criticism of it being an adaptation. The term adaptation implies that things will be altered during the process of creation. If they were going to alter Danny's race to be more inclusive, the launch of a new Netflix series was the prime time to do it. It's the second most visible avenue of output that Marvel has outside their movies and there's much less financial risk than their movies. They had a very real opportunity to do something different than rehashing problematic tropes from the comics and they chose not to. Methinks it's an entirely fair criticism.

    Second, I think that the race of the character could definitely effect the show's entertainment value if you are concerned with how the optics of the white guy appropriating East Asian aesthetics/culture thing plays to you. As Falcon noted above, it doesn't bother him which is dandy. I have Asian friends who were kind of upset about the show's casting choices and opted not to bother with it because it's just not something they are interested in seeing.

    Also, the idea that it would be fine to change it if it was an original property is a bit reductive. Source material is not sacrosanct. Comics aren't movies. They aren't TV series. They are a different medium. The process of adaptation is going to alter the narratives of comics to fit new mediums better. This process is a factor now and, I imagine, will continue to be moving forward. The notion of the origin being something you can't change is kind of odd in of itself and the more concerning idea that Danny's story would somehow radically alter simply if he was of Chinese/Korean/Japanese/Tibetan/whatever descent is very weird to me.

    Why couldn't a Batman inspired origin be something that an East Asian person have? Why couldn't Rand Corp be an Asian American family company? What about Danny being white makes that more believable to you?

    I'll stress the caveat that I'm quite aware that discussing this kind of material can get uncomfortable and can be a bit charged so I'm just making clear to all and sundry that no offence or insinuation of malignancy is meant by my line of questioning. I just like discussing this stuff. If you feel I'm being pushy or whatever, please let me know. Tone is hard to convey online and I don't want to cause any offence.
    And did you have these same complaints when DC changed Wally from white to black(before bringing OG Wally back)? Or what about when Nick Fury was made Black? Or CWs "James Olsen"? In those cases it would have been better to just create a completely different character to make everyone happy, but they changed the colour of their skin and pretty much turned them into completely different characters for no reason other than a half assed attempt in creating a minority character.

    Which is kind of insulting, as it just shows they were too lazy to create a new and unique character, meaning they were putting less effort in minority characters than they would white characters, while sending out the message that if you are of a different ethnicity, you will instantly have a different personality. You could have a similar history, and you'd still be completely different all because you are of a different ethnicity, all the while also slapping fans of the original characters in the face by changing their favourite characters both in personality and appearance.

    I honestly doubt they had any hidden agenda in portraying Danny as White, just poor casting choices. Though imo; if they were going to change his ethnicity, then they should have had a mixed White/Asian guy as Danny. You don't see many mixed characters portrayed in fiction, despite interracial relationships becoming more and more common, and the background for the character on how his parents may have met could have been interesting. That, and I've always been a fan of the "Whasian" martial artist type of character ever since I played True Crimes: Streets of LA.
    Last edited by Cody; 03-18-2017 at 09:33 PM.
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    Every time you say the name of some kind of nonsense martial art, an angel gets its wings, and Val Armorr learns the martial art, retroactively founds it, then super karates the angel unconscious with it.

  9. #9999
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by master of read View Post
    and it's hard to see jack of all people think those thoughts, though very understandable.
    I think he needs a spirit guide. Someone who can cheer him up when he's feeling down.
    ...
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  10. #10000
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Wow, this Toppo dude is beastly.
    Justice-Beast! Death To Evildoers!
    You kinda walked into this one Goku.
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  11. #10001
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    Critics who treat adult as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence.
    - C.S. Lewis

  12. #10002
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    So what does everyone think of Netflix Iron Fist's skills so far? Idk, I feel like Rama could honestly take him handily unless Danny lands a shot with the Falcon Punch. He just seems faster and more fluid than Danny.
    What do you guys think?
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  13. #10003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    I don't think that's entirely a fair statement myself. First off, the casting ethnicity of your lead character is a valid criticism of it being an adaptation. The term adaptation implies that things will be altered during the process of creation. If they were going to alter Danny's race to be more inclusive, the launch of a new Netflix series was the prime time to do it. It's the second most visible avenue of output that Marvel has outside their movies and there's much less financial risk than their movies. They had a very real opportunity to do something different than rehashing problematic tropes from the comics and they chose not to. Methinks it's an entirely fair criticism.

    Second, I think that the race of the character could definitely effect the show's entertainment value if you are concerned with how the optics of the white guy appropriating East Asian aesthetics/culture thing plays to you. As Falcon noted above, it doesn't bother him which is dandy. I have Asian friends who were kind of upset about the show's casting choices and opted not to bother with it because it's just not something they are interested in seeing.

    Also, the idea that it would be fine to change it if it was an original property is a bit reductive. Source material is not sacrosanct. Comics aren't movies. They aren't TV series. They are a different medium. The process of adaptation is going to alter the narratives of comics to fit new mediums better. This process is a factor now and, I imagine, will continue to be moving forward. The notion of the origin being something you can't change is kind of odd in of itself and the more concerning idea that Danny's story would somehow radically alter simply if he was of Chinese/Korean/Japanese/Tibetan/whatever descent is very weird to me.

    Why couldn't a Batman inspired origin be something that an East Asian person have? Why couldn't Rand Corp be an Asian American family company? What about Danny being white makes that more believable to you?

    I'll stress the caveat that I'm quite aware that discussing this kind of material can get uncomfortable and can be a bit charged so I'm just making clear to all and sundry that no offence or insinuation of malignancy is meant by my line of questioning. I just like discussing this stuff. If you feel I'm being pushy or whatever, please let me know. Tone is hard to convey online and I don't want to cause any offence.
    Thing is,if the goal was to not following problematic tropes.You fail either way since Asians inheritly being associated with knowing marital arts is also something considered problematic.

  14. #10004

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    the Cell Saga nods in Dragon Ball Super episode 82

    1. the Toppo bear hugging Goku scene is a nod to this scene in Cell Saga

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq8wfuId5PQ

    2 The Kamehameha that Goku does to Toppo is a nod to this scene in the Cell Saga


  15. #10005
    Reborn Samurai Len Ikari145's Avatar
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    Meanwhile in the DB Super manga, we have Vegeta showcasing that he too can use the base Super Saiyan God form and demonstrates how it is still just as useful as Blue. Apparently, Super Saiyan God doesn't consume nearly as much of a user's stamina compared to Blue, so Vegeta maintains Super Saiyan God as his primary form, then rapidly shifts to Blue when he counterattacks without Black noticing. Using this strategy allows him to overwhelm Black without losing a drop of his own ki. Meanwhile, Goku manages to seal up Zamasu but he accidentally takes Roshi's coupon for a Cabaret Club instead of the Demon Seal. Whoops.

    Oh well, it's better than him just forgetting to bring the seal like the anime.

    Anyway, Goku delivers one of his classic heroic speeches(aka Talk no Jutsu before Naruto made it popular) to Zamasu while pointing out the flaws of his scheme and how Black is merely using him, which makes Zamasu lose his composure. Realizing Goku has something of a point, Zamasu starts arguing with Black and states that if he and Black aren't the strongest beings in the universe, their plan is useless. Black says they still have their "last resort", The Potara, with Goku immediately grasping what he means and yells at Vegeta to finish them off. Acting too late, Goku tries to vaporize Black and Zamasu himself but the two use the potara earrings and become Fusion Zamasu.

    Y'know, I don't complain about Anime Super! Goku much but it is refreshing to see Manga Super!Goku still acting with Z Goku's rationale, heroism and competence. On the Super Anime, the Toppo vs Goku fight was definitely the best one so far and I did love the callbacks to the Cell Saga. Episodes 83-85 will be interesting since the translated episode summaries have stated that Bra's birth actually causes Goku to become introspective and reflect on his actions. I don't know what's going on with Krillin seemingly fighting Basil in the preview, though.

    And once again, it's made plainly obvious that the Grand Priest is running the show here and taking advantage of Zeno's naivete to effectively make himself the true ruler of the DB Multiverse.
    Last edited by Len Ikari145; 03-19-2017 at 01:54 AM.
    Tsubaki: Noel, get ready for tomorrow tonight.

    Noel: Why? What're we doing tomorrow night?

    Tsubaki: The same thing we do every night---try to get Jin in my pants!

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