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  1. #5521
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by responsarbre View Post
    Red Widow has shown up in a couple of short comics attached to the end of the SHIELD 50th Anniversary: Mockingbird one-shot and Ms. Marvel v4 #12. Both of them felt like promotional comics for Forever Red and Red Vengeance, respectively, and they were both written by Margaret Stohl. It's not explicit as to whether they take place in any comics universe, but they've never been referenced in anything else.

    As for the books themselves, they seem to take place in their own continuity that takes a little from the comics, a little from the movies, and adds some of its own perspective. So I don't think the events of either book are supposed to have been experienced by Natasha in the 616. I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to adapt Red Widow into a Black Widow story at some point.



    I love how sleek that look is. The fabric looked breathable but also dark and high-quality, and it didn't have too many extraneous details like piping and paneling.
    But I also love how the Civil War look goes for the full gloves, and I kind of like its bulky Widow's Bites that let her shoot blasts of electricity like in the comics. Her hair in Civil War is my favorite, too. We should do a ranking of her costumes sometime.
    Oh I liked her Winter Soldier look the best mostly because of tha hair actually.
    Long and straight comes just behind ponytails in my not at all shallow list of ideal haircuts for women. *cough*

    But I actually did like the suit the most there too because of the reasons you mentioned, however CW is a close second and IM 2 would be up there too weren't it for the very fake looking wig.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
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  2. #5522
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    Quote Originally Posted by responsarbre View Post
    Red Widow has shown up in a couple of short comics attached to the end of the SHIELD 50th Anniversary: Mockingbird one-shot and Ms. Marvel v4 #12. Both of them felt like promotional comics for Forever Red and Red Vengeance, respectively, and they were both written by Margaret Stohl. It's not explicit as to whether they take place in any comics universe, but they've never been referenced in anything else.

    As for the books themselves, they seem to take place in their own continuity that takes a little from the comics, a little from the movies, and adds some of its own perspective. So I don't think the events of either book are supposed to have been experienced by Natasha in the 616. I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to adapt Red Widow into a Black Widow story at some point.
    Yeah having read the books I know they can come off like a mishmash of the moves and comics to an extent but everything I see about them online suggest they're supposed to be 616 canon with bits to just entice readers who know the films more. Even talk that the books were rewritten/edited early on to have them align to the 616 universe. And Jim Zub was even asked if Ava/Red Widow was considered for Champions and he stated

    No, but maybe can she make an appearance down the road. We’ll have to wait and see.
    So it sounds like folks who know about her and the books consider it part of 616 canon.

  3. #5523
    Astonishing Member Winterboy's Avatar
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    "Who wouldn't go out with the Black Widow? I'd strangle a litter of kittens for one dinner with her!"
    Adrian Toomes aka the Vulture


    "Natasha Romanoff, A.K.A. Black Widow - ex-KGB, formerly with S.H.I.E.L.D...Probably the brains of this operation.I have followed her career, and she has been consistently UNDERRATED."

  4. #5524
    Astonishing Member Winterboy's Avatar
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    Infinity Countdown: Black Widow variant covers by del Mundo and Sienkiewicz...

    variant covers.jpg

    "Who wouldn't go out with the Black Widow? I'd strangle a litter of kittens for one dinner with her!"
    Adrian Toomes aka the Vulture


    "Natasha Romanoff, A.K.A. Black Widow - ex-KGB, formerly with S.H.I.E.L.D...Probably the brains of this operation.I have followed her career, and she has been consistently UNDERRATED."

  5. #5525
    Incredible Member responsarbre's Avatar
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    Two amazing artists, but it's a little disappointing that GUNSGUNSGUNS was the only composition idea either of them could come up with. I think they both can (and in Sienkewicz's case, have) come up with a slightly more atmospheric cover than those.

  6. #5526
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by responsarbre View Post
    Two amazing artists, but it's a little disappointing that GUNSGUNSGUNS was the only composition idea either of them could come up with. I think they both can (and in Sienkewicz's case, have) come up with a slightly more atmospheric cover than those.
    Agreed. What the heck?
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  7. #5527
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    Marvel Summer of Super Heroes is underway at Disneyland Paris
    http://attractionsmagazine.com/marve...neyland-paris/

    If you watch the videos at that link you get to see Black Widow performing in Paris.

  8. #5528
    Incredible Member responsarbre's Avatar
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    If you were interested in Natasha's guest spot in Punisher next month, you might want to check out today's issue. Might also be of interest if you liked Tales of Suspense.
    spoilers:
    Frank goes after Zemo and HYDRA because I guess he's upset about having been manipulated into working for them during Secret Empire. While taking on Zemo, he gets ambushed by Ghost, Crossbones, and Taskmaster. Right as Ghost succeeds in disabling Frank's War Machine armor, a team consisting of Natasha, Bucky, Clint, and Bobbi (aka Secret Avengers line-up of my dreams) arrive on Frank's location and save him. There's a little bit of Hawkeye and Bucky quipping at each other.
    After Zemo and HYDRA escape, Clint explains that they were sent by Fury (Jr.) to retrieve the War Machine armor. (Nick had Frank steal it earlier in this run, and regretted his decision a few issues later.) Frank refuses, and is determined to keep on using the armor to keep killing HYDRA agents.

    While Clint is arguing with Frank, Natasha knocks out both Clint and Bobbi, and tells Frank that she's made an executive decision and wants to help him kill HYDRA agents. Bucky is still left standing next to her, and it's ambiguous as to whether he'll be joining them on their mission.

    Bobbi doesn't get any lines. =(
    end of spoilers

    It's interesting but there are a couple of things that irked me about it (which is easy since I'm never satisfied with anything). Interested in how the next issue turns out.
    Last edited by responsarbre; 06-13-2018 at 05:19 PM.

  9. #5529
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Honestly, I can only hope that this alliance only goes as far as stopping Hydra because, really, the heroes after Frank are right that he has to pay for his involvement in Secret Empire. He may be trying to make up for that mistake, but that's a pretty big and damning mistake to have made in the first place.

  10. #5530
    Spectacular Member OOTCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by responsarbre View Post
    If you were interested in Natasha's guest spot in Punisher next month, you might want to check out today's issue. Might also be of interest if you liked Tales of Suspense.
    spoilers:
    Frank goes after Zemo and HYDRA because I guess he's upset about having been manipulated into working for them during Secret Empire. While taking on Zemo, he gets ambushed by Ghost, Crossbones, and Taskmaster. Right as Ghost succeeds in disabling Frank's War Machine armor, a team consisting of Natasha, Bucky, Clint, and Bobbi (aka Secret Avengers line-up of my dreams) arrive on Frank's location and save him. There's a little bit of Hawkeye and Bucky quipping at each other.
    After Zemo and HYDRA escape, Clint explains that they were sent by Fury (Jr.) to retrieve the War Machine armor. (Nick had Frank steal it earlier in this run, and regretted his decision a few issues later.) Frank refuses, and is determined to keep on using the armor to keep killing HYDRA agents.

    While Clint is arguing with Frank, Natasha knocks out both Clint and Bobbi, and tells Frank that she's made an executive decision and wants to help him kill HYDRA agents. Bucky is still left standing next to her, and it's ambiguous as to whether he'll be joining them on their mission.

    Bobbi doesn't get any lines. =(
    end of spoilers

    It's interesting but there are a couple of things that irked me about it (which is easy since I'm never satisfied with anything). Interested in how the next issue turns out.
    Wow, I have so many mixed feelings about this.

  11. #5531
    Mighty Member Dethi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by responsarbre View Post
    If you were interested in Natasha's guest spot in Punisher next month, you might want to check out today's issue. Might also be of interest if you liked Tales of Suspense.
    spoilers:
    Frank goes after Zemo and HYDRA because I guess he's upset about having been manipulated into working for them during Secret Empire. While taking on Zemo, he gets ambushed by Ghost, Crossbones, and Taskmaster. Right as Ghost succeeds in disabling Frank's War Machine armor, a team consisting of Natasha, Bucky, Clint, and Bobbi (aka Secret Avengers line-up of my dreams) arrive on Frank's location and save him. There's a little bit of Hawkeye and Bucky quipping at each other.
    After Zemo and HYDRA escape, Clint explains that they were sent by Fury (Jr.) to retrieve the War Machine armor. (Nick had Frank steal it earlier in this run, and regretted his decision a few issues later.) Frank refuses, and is determined to keep on using the armor to keep killing HYDRA agents.

    While Clint is arguing with Frank, Natasha knocks out both Clint and Bobbi, and tells Frank that she's made an executive decision and wants to help him kill HYDRA agents. Bucky is still left standing next to her, and it's ambiguous as to whether he'll be joining them on their mission.

    Bobbi doesn't get any lines. =(
    end of spoilers

    It's interesting but there are a couple of things that irked me about it (which is easy since I'm never satisfied with anything). Interested in how the next issue turns out.
    That was weird as shit. It at the same time line up with ToS but some part don't...
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  12. #5532
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by responsarbre View Post
    If you were interested in Natasha's guest spot in Punisher next month, you might want to check out today's issue. Might also be of interest if you liked Tales of Suspense.
    spoilers:
    Frank goes after Zemo and HYDRA because I guess he's upset about having been manipulated into working for them during Secret Empire. While taking on Zemo, he gets ambushed by Ghost, Crossbones, and Taskmaster. Right as Ghost succeeds in disabling Frank's War Machine armor, a team consisting of Natasha, Bucky, Clint, and Bobbi (aka Secret Avengers line-up of my dreams) arrive on Frank's location and save him. There's a little bit of Hawkeye and Bucky quipping at each other.
    After Zemo and HYDRA escape, Clint explains that they were sent by Fury (Jr.) to retrieve the War Machine armor. (Nick had Frank steal it earlier in this run, and regretted his decision a few issues later.) Frank refuses, and is determined to keep on using the armor to keep killing HYDRA agents.

    While Clint is arguing with Frank, Natasha knocks out both Clint and Bobbi, and tells Frank that she's made an executive decision and wants to help him kill HYDRA agents. Bucky is still left standing next to her, and it's ambiguous as to whether he'll be joining them on their mission.

    Bobbi doesn't get any lines. =(
    end of spoilers

    It's interesting but there are a couple of things that irked me about it (which is easy since I'm never satisfied with anything). Interested in how the next issue turns out.
    Huh. Seems...fine. Reminds me a bit of the Widow/Punisher crossover when Edmondson was writing both of those.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
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  13. #5533
    Incredible Member responsarbre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    Wow, I have so many mixed feelings about this.
    It doesn't exactly feel like Natasha's M.O., to be perfectly honest. Even though she's cool with killing, I feel like she's not usually the type to go on a targeted manhunt of rank-and-file goons like that. I prefer a Natasha who only kills when she needs to; it makes more sense considering her own morality and her position as a hero and Avenger. The few instances where she's been more needlessly kill-happy (The Things They Say About Her, Avengers #11 by Hickman, Tales of Suspense) typically aren't my favorite. It can just feel forced. She uses non-lethal tactics pretty often, too. Natasha's not the Punisher, and I think that's more than just a superficial argument.

    Something that's also worth noting is that Natasha has teamed up with and gone up against the Punisher in equal measure, like so many other street-level heroes. I was planning on rereading all these old encounters to compare to next month's team-up.
    • Punisher War Journal #9 (Incidental "team-up" followed by some spiteful conversation)
    • Punisher/Black Widow: Spinning Doomsday's Web (Initial fight followed by begrudging team-up)
    • Marvel Knights (Alternating between working to catch the Punisher and teaming up with him)
    • Punisher: War Zone (Attempt to capture him, foiled by Frank playing on Natasha's heroic sense of duty)
    • Edmondson's Black Widow/Punisher soft crossover (Begrudging non-team-up that ended with Natasha jailing Frank ... so that he could tie up some loose ends for her)

    There are just a couple of other things that got a reaction from me. This panel from Clint had me rolling my eyes; I don't think it's OOC of Clint to say that about Natasha, but it reminded me that Rosenberg's Natasha is pretty humorless as compared to some other interpretations. And the whole team-up with Clint and Bucky felt a little out of place. They left off on awkward terms after Tales of Suspense, but now they're all together again.
    Last edited by responsarbre; 06-14-2018 at 05:42 AM.

  14. #5534
    Mighty Member Dethi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by responsarbre View Post
    There are just a couple of other things that got a reaction from me. This panel from Clint had me rolling my eyes; I don't think it's OOC of Clint to say that about Natasha, but it reminded me that Rosenberg's Natasha is pretty humorless as compared to some other interpretations. And the whole team-up with Clint and Bucky felt a little out of place. They left off on awkward terms after Tales of Suspense, but now they're all together again.
    That part yeah or the fact that Clint and Natasha are working like everything is fine ? When in her letter she told him to stay away from her because she will hurt him again. But there they work like everything is fine. The Clint I know would have try to talk to her about this before anything... But yeah, I guess...
    Last edited by Dethi; 06-14-2018 at 05:55 AM.
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  15. #5535
    Spectacular Member OOTCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by responsarbre View Post
    It doesn't exactly feel like Natasha's M.O., to be perfectly honest. Even though she's cool with killing, I feel like she's not usually the type to go on a targeted manhunt of rank-and-file goons like that. I prefer a Natasha who only kills when she needs to; it makes more sense considering her own morality and her position as a hero and Avenger. The few instances where she's been more needlessly kill-happy (The Things They Say About Her, Avengers #11 by Hickman, Tales of Suspense) typically aren't my favorite. It can just feel forced. She uses non-lethal tactics pretty often, too. Natasha's not the Punisher, and I think that's more than just a superficial argument.

    Something that's also worth noting is that Natasha has teamed up with and gone up against the Punisher in equal measure, like so many other street-level heroes. I was planning on rereading all these old encounters to compare to next month's team-up.
    • Punisher War Journal #9 (Incidental "team-up" followed by some spiteful conversation)
    • Punisher/Black Widow: Spinning Doomsday's Web (Initial fight followed by begrudging team-up)
    • Marvel Knights (Alternating between working to catch the Punisher and teaming up with him)
    • Punisher: War Zone (Attempt to capture him, foiled by Frank playing on Natasha's heroic sense of duty)
    • Edmondson's Black Widow/Punisher soft crossover (Begrudging non-team-up that ended with Natasha jailing Frank ... so that he could tie up some loose ends for her)
    I think I'll check out this list, too. I've never really been interested in the Punisher, so I haven't read any of those. And I don't know what the dynamic between Natasha and Frank is like, so I can't really comment on whether or not teaming up with him to go on a killing spree is OOC for her or not, but she generally has something up her sleeve, so maybe she'll surprise us.

    There are just a couple of other things that got a reaction from me. This panel from Clint had me rolling my eyes; I don't think it's OOC of Clint to say that about Natasha, but it reminded me that Rosenberg's Natasha is pretty humorless as compared to some other interpretations.
    She just came back to life, though. Everyone's a little touchy right after they've just come back to life (see Clint and Bobbi—okay, she wasn't actually dead, but still).

    And the whole team-up with Clint and Bucky felt a little out of place. They left off on awkward terms after Tales of Suspense, but now they're all together again.
    That is a little surprising, but they're on an assignment, so I imagine that if Natasha asked what Clint was doing when he and Bobbi caught up to her and Bucky, he would have had a ready excuse: "I know, I know, but it was Fury's call, what can you do." And then he would just act like everything is normal. Kind of like what he did with Bruce a few weeks ago in Avengers: No Surrender, where he tamps down on his feelings and acting like everything is cool in order to avoid looking vulnerable.
    Last edited by OOTCS; 06-14-2018 at 06:05 AM.

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