1. #25231
    Astonishing Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    I don't like the works of either Mark Waid or Alex Ross (particulariry Ross), but those two really get superheroes.
    Zack Snyder? Where is there even the slightest hint in his work he understands the superhero genre?
    In the numerous scenes and lines and character moments taken straight from iconic and celebrated works.

    It's kind of a big ask for a non-fan to watch this but I think it's borderline empirically false at this point to state that Snyder's character interpretations are far off base.


  2. #25232
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    Sounds way too similar to Elongated Man on the Flash TV show. Funny, immensely powerful, former police detective. I could see why they would want a Flash movie even though there is a Flash TV show,
    because Flash is a major character. But I don't think bringing a minor character to the big screen that is basically the same as a character on TV is the way to go. I sort of doubt we will see a movie version
    of Green Arrow and Black Canary, Martian Manhunter, Atom, or Supergirl either.
    I disagree completely. Just because they're in the TV shows doesn't mean we won't see them in films. The movie people don't even care about what the TV show people are doing and probably don't even know Elongated Man is on the Flash. You can tell because Zack Snyder made comments about Gustin's Flash that were completely inaccurate--simply put, he's never seen it. The goal with the films (and the shows) is to create an expansive universe. No characters are off limits for the films.

    And to be fair, Elongated Man and Plastic Man are not the same despite both being goofy and having similar powersets.

    I think a film that uses the FBI agent angle for O'Brien would be perfect. Bring in this goofy hero with the goofiest powers, a man who can be anyone or anything and is practically invincible but yet a complete goofball who seems to not take anything seriously (even though he totally does) into the FBI, a very serious agency with serious views on handling missions would be a perfect superhero film and could represent the contrast of lighter and darker superhero movies.
    Last edited by Elmo; 02-12-2018 at 05:33 PM.
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  3. #25233
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    In the numerous scenes and lines and character moments taken straight from iconic and celebrated works.

    It's kind of a big ask for a non-fan to watch this but I think it's borderline empirically false at this point to state that Snyder's character interpretations are far off base.

    I think when people say Snyder doesn't get superheroes, they mean he doesn't understand them when they were primarily for kids. I don't say this in a snarky way, BTW, since I have fond memories of my Bronze Age reading (not to mention GA and SA reprints during that same era).
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  4. #25234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Robards, Comic Fan View Post
    If they were gonna keep Snyder, they should have just bitten the bullet, did what he wanted and then moved on once it released. You can't argue that what they did resulted in anything better (critically or financially). At least then it would've been artistically consistent with what came before..
    Specious argument but I disagree. Justice League had overall a better response(critics liked it overall better than BvS with the film's RT score at 40% being higher than BvS's abysmal 27% Tomato score) and audiences seem to have liked it better as well given it's 'B+' Cinemascore while BvS just got 'B' along with the fact that even though Justice League opened lower than BvS--it did better overall in terms of it's theatrical legs: Having the lowest drop-offs for a DCEU film second to only Wonder Woman(JL never suffered the steep drops that it's predecessor did).

    Not to mention most of the praised aspects of Justice League(the humor, the opening Batman scene, the character work) were Whedon contributions which leads me to believe Snyder's version would've actually done worse if he were to finish and release the film the way he originally intended(critically and commercially) without the studio looking over his shoulder and meddling.Especially since there's been numerous reports of his cut of the film being only marginally lighter than BvS but still quite heavy then I imagine it not playing not too well with audiences like what happened with BvS. Having trailers that looked similar to the dour BvS(which was at odds with the whole 'fun' nature of the trailers) didn't do them any favors, imagine the actual film being along the lines of BvS's tone only slightly more hopeful? I think it would've been a disaster(well more of disaster at least). It's rather telling that if you compare the initial trailers to the later ones you can see a marked difference in visual style; the first trailers had that dour, gloomy looking de-saturated MOS/ BVS look while the last trailers had more of a brighter, colorful look, like a lot of the Marvel films have.

    It's complete conjecture to say that Snyder's cut would've been either better or worse than what we got as that's all subjective(as well as conjecture since a Snyder Cut will not be seeing the light of day for quite some time) but I think it's an educated guess that it likely would've been received more negatively.
    Last edited by Amadeus Arkham; 02-12-2018 at 07:20 PM. Reason: Damn I need to be a grammar-Nazi before posting.
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  5. #25235
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    The DC universe will still be fine when it's all said and done, they just need to hit their stride again.
    Last edited by Amadeus Arkham; 02-12-2018 at 06:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus Arkham View Post
    The DC universe will still be fine when it's all said and done, they just need to find their stride again.
    Nothing they've done so far leads me to believe that the current iteration of the DCEU will be fine.
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    Astonishing Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    I think when people say Snyder doesn't get superheroes, they mean he doesn't understand them when they were primarily for kids. I don't say this in a snarky way, BTW, since I have fond memories of my Bronze Age reading (not to mention GA and SA reprints during that same era).
    I think that's a valid criticism. But there's enough kid-accessible material out there at this point and these adult characters deserve adult interpretations IMO. I know you'd agree for the most part but general audiences don't seem comfortable with it.

  8. #25238
    Astonishing Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    I think that's a valid criticism. But there's enough kid-accessible material out there at this point and these adult characters deserve adult interpretations IMO. I know you'd agree for the most part but general audiences don't seem comfortable with it.
    What did he do that is "adult"? The 3 DCEU films he worked on are all PG-13 and they're not deep or profound and having no bright colors or humor doesn't make a film "adult". Deadpool has a brighter color palette and tons of humor and is way more "adult" given it's R rated, had more violence, nudity, and even torture. But the Deadpool filmmakers get who he is as a character something Snyder I don't think grasp with characters he only gets if it looks "cool" IMO.

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    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    I think that's a valid criticism. But there's enough kid-accessible material out there at this point and these adult characters deserve adult interpretations IMO. I know you'd agree for the most part but general audiences don't seem comfortable with it.
    I agree, LR. It might change a generation from now, but it's going to be difficult at the present time.
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    PITCH: Gangster Eel O'Brien gets chemicals poured onto him years ago. Ever since then he has been operating low-key as a superhero with elasticity powers. The FBI catches onto his powers, namely his power to shape-shift and want to use it to deal with some overseas issues without calling attention to themselves or getting a more high profile superhero to do it. So they bring him in and make him a full fledged FBI agent and it would essentially be a Get Smart type of thing. Eel O'Brien acts like a complete buffoon. He's goofy and hilarious and treats the whole thing like a joke. But when the nefarious Doctor Dome unveils his dastardly plan it's time to suit up. It may be a stretch but this guy can stretch. This summer . Get ready for the stupidest action adventure comedy of your lifetime. Watch as Eel O'Brien turns himself into a rocket ship and flies to stop nuclear warheads from destroying Texas. Gasp as Eel battles the dastardly DEADBOLT, and punches him with his massive fist the size of a mack truck . Strap in for an epic ride as Eel O'Brien turns into a racecar and chases villains through the busy streets of Fawcett City. Watch as this slimy gangster gets put to the ultimate test and truly becomes the All Star known as Plastic Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhipWhirlwind View Post
    That and outside of being black T'Challa and Vic have nothing in common.
    Other than being a Woman Wonder Woman and black widow have nothing in common. But the success of the Wonder Woman movie open the door for Black Widow and Captain Marvel to be made. My point I was making was simply that now that a black superhero is smashing box office records the doorway will be opened. And I think that's a great thing

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    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    Cyborg is not marketable as a franchise. If WB wants to make a DC movie with a black character they should use ICON. He has a black supporting cast and he doesn't age so he has seen the entire history of blacks in America, civil rights movements, black lives matter, etc. He's lived through it all since the 1800s at least and he is a black man as powerful as Superman who is a rich and successful corporate lawyer. WB would be stupid not to make a movie franchise with ICON
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    Cyborg is not marketable as a franchise. If WB wants to make a DC movie with a black character they should use ICON. He has a black supporting cast and he doesn't age so he has seen the entire history of blacks in America, civil rights movements, black lives matter, etc. He's lived through it all since the 1800s at least and he is a black man as powerful as Superman who is a rich and successful corporate lawyer. WB would be stupid not to make a movie franchise with ICON
    Wouldn't static be a better character from Milestone to make the big screen. More recognizable, youthful energy about him, and much more marketable at the box office?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbshabo View Post
    Wouldn't static be a better character from Milestone to make the big screen. More recognizable, youthful energy about him, and much more marketable at the box office?
    Too young.And DC tends not to push characters they don't 100% own.So I doubt they'll be willing to push either of them to that level
    Last edited by Baseman; 02-12-2018 at 08:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbshabo View Post
    Other than being a Woman Wonder Woman and black widow have nothing in common. But the success of the Wonder Woman movie open the door for Black Widow and Captain Marvel to be made. My point I was making was simply that now that a black superhero is smashing box office records the doorway will be opened. And I think that's a great thing
    Captain Marvel was originally announced along with Black Panther as being part of the Marvel Phase 3 slate in 2014. It was going to be made regardless of whether WW happened or not. Kevin Feige stated his intention to make a Black Widow movie before WW was even released.
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