1. #25261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Robards, Comic Fan View Post
    I get was Snyder did with his DC movies in terms of deconstruction and having Superman's symbolic status being earned and not given (shown by the transition of darkness to light seen across his three films), but the problem with using that derivation for the basis of a movie universe is that his version is the only version of these characters (theatrically speaking).

    So people who don't like that take are, essentially, left out in the cold, which is why a lot of these characters are distilled to their purest form (when done well, anyway) when put on the big screen: it gives everyone the type of character they're used to, regardless of the actual character specifics. I'm wholly of the opinion that this universe would've been a lot better received had it been an Elseworlds GN or some other, clearly alternate universe instead of the universe.

    Hopefully that comes across clearly...

    EDIT: Put another way, Injustice is well-received because there are other, more traditional Superman comics out there. If Injustice was the only Superman comic available, people would be having a sh!t hemorrhage.
    An adaptation is as much of an elseworld as anything else because there will still be changes to canon. And it isn't like DCEU Superman is the only movie version of Superman to exist. He wasn't even the only live action version of Superman at the time. And there being more comics than Injustice hadn't stopped comic fans from hating it.

  2. #25262
    X-Men & Green Lantern Fan Sam Robards, Comic Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    An adaptation is as much of an elseworld as anything else because there will still be changes to canon.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    And it isn't like DCEU Superman is the only movie version of Superman to exist.
    True, but he is the only cinematic Superman with new movies coming out, which is what I meant when I said that the Snyderverse is the movie universe right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    And there being more comics than Injustice hadn't stopped comic fans from hating it.
    I've heard good things about the comic: was it just never well received, or did it just run outta steam? It seems like the latter is very possible because it was initially set as a prequel to the first game: I don't know what they did in regards to the second game.
    What can I say but, "I love comics."

  3. #25263
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Darkseid storyboard for Justice League scene.

    http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/02/13/d...er-storyboard/

    So pissed off that they cut this.

  4. #25264
    X-Men & Green Lantern Fan Sam Robards, Comic Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    Darkseid storyboard for Justice League scene.

    http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/02/13/d...er-storyboard/

    So pissed off that they cut this.
    Agreed. If there was one big gripe I had with JL (outside of the choppy first act), it was that they didn't pay off or even allude to the knightmare sequence. This sounds like it would've been awesome.
    What can I say but, "I love comics."

  5. #25265
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    Justice League is an awful film from start to finish and I think it's pretty clear that absolutely nothing in it was Zack Snyder's idea. That man is a cinematic poet. His films are distinctly his, his art, his vision, and he has so much love and passion for it. You can tell he's an inspired and talented filmmaker because he's not only knowledgeable but capable. The only "bad" thing he's ever done is pissed off some fanboys. He is a masterful director and I can't wait to see more of his work in the future.

    That being said Justice League was clearly not his movie. The entire story is a complete mess. There is ZERO fluidity between the scenes and the characters. Characters interact with each other and don't even appear on screen together. Nothing about the mother boxes was accurate to the comics. All of the immensely profound emotional moments and philosophical dialogue/themes from MoS and BvS were completely lacking in JL. Batman is the worst he's ever been characterized in any film ever because he is never consistent. He goes from dark broody loner to silver age wisecracking Bats like it's nothing and there is no sense of the timeline from BvS and SS. It's just a ridiculous movie that clearly was STOLEN from Zack Snyder who probably had a really incredible vision. Instead what we got was a studio simply trying to market the Justice League brand and not actually tell any story that made sense or fit with any other DC Comics media.

    I honestly think people that say the movie is good are lying. Maybe you like it, because I can definitely see it as pure entertainment since there are some delightful action scenes and fun character moments. But the movie is absolutely abysmal from start to finish and this is coming from someone who considers Man of Steel and BvS to be the greatest superhero films ever made and someone who walked out of Suicide Squad not hating it one bit. There is not even a SEMBLANCE of a decent film in there. No "director's cut" is going to make it any better. It is a tonal mess with a story ripped out of some big wig's asshole. Zack probably wanted to make a good film but it does NOT exist because it was never made. WB got antsy after BvS and took control of the project completely so even though he directed some scenes the movie was never his.

    Zack Snyder is an amazing man and amazing filmmaker who just wanted to make the films of his dreams but with his vision. People act like he ever owed them anything. He's an artist out to make HIS art and he will continue to do so whether it's with WB or not.
    Last edited by Elmo; 02-13-2018 at 01:05 PM.
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  6. #25266
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    Lying? LOL I enjoyed JL for the most part. It's not as good as a bunch of SH movies, but it's still better than the average one. It's somewhat hollow, but the action and interactions between some of the characters are really good. It's something I'd only see once, but most movies I only see once, anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    Darkseid storyboard for Justice League scene.

    http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/02/13/d...er-storyboard/

    So pissed off that they cut this.
    This being cut from the film is fine especially in light of how poorly JL performed.
    "Recast Trump with Christopher Plummer immediately"

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  8. #25268
    X-Men & Green Lantern Fan Sam Robards, Comic Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus Arkham View Post
    This being cut from the film is fine especially in light of how poorly JL performed.
    I'm not sure how the movie's performance affects the presence of this scene. I know it wouldn't have affected the movie's gross, but it would have been cool to see and would have provided a through line to what was one of the more talked about scenes in BvS.

    Of course, knowing now how the movie performed, it's likely that scene would just be viewed as a narrative dead-end considering the potentially-not-happening Justice League 2, but at least we'd have seen Darkseid!

    EDIT: Also, this implementation of the scene sounds better than the "Steppenwolf tries to tempt Superman before getting his @$$ KO'd" variant Kevin Smith talked about.
    Last edited by Sam Robards, Comic Fan; 02-13-2018 at 01:38 PM. Reason: Addition
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  9. #25269
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    Justice League is an awful film from start to finish and I think it's pretty clear that absolutely nothing in it was Zack Snyder's idea. That man is a cinematic poet. His films are distinctly his, his art, his vision, and he has so much love and passion for it. You can tell he's an inspired and talented filmmaker because he's not only knowledgeable but capable. The only "bad" thing he's ever done is pissed off some fanboys. He is a masterful director and I can't wait to see more of his work in the future.

    That being said Justice League was clearly not his movie. The entire story is a complete mess. There is ZERO fluidity between the scenes and the characters. Characters interact with each other and don't even appear on screen together. Nothing about the mother boxes was accurate to the comics. All of the immensely profound emotional moments and philosophical dialogue/themes from MoS and BvS were completely lacking in JL. Batman is the worst he's ever been characterized in any film ever because he is never consistent. He goes from dark broody loner to silver age wisecracking Bats like it's nothing and there is no sense of the timeline from BvS and SS. It's just a ridiculous movie that clearly was STOLEN from Zack Snyder who probably had a really incredible vision. Instead what we got was a studio simply trying to market the Justice League brand and not actually tell any story that made sense or fit with any other DC Comics media.

    I honestly think people that say the movie is good are lying. Maybe you like it, because I can definitely see it as pure entertainment since there are some delightful action scenes and fun character moments. But the movie is absolutely abysmal from start to finish and this is coming from someone who considers Man of Steel and BvS to be the greatest superhero films ever made and someone who walked out of Suicide Squad not hating it one bit. There is not even a SEMBLANCE of a decent film in there. No "director's cut" is going to make it any better. It is a tonal mess with a story ripped out of some big wig's asshole. Zack probably wanted to make a good film but it does NOT exist because it was never made. WB got antsy after BvS and took control of the project completely so even though he directed some scenes the movie was never his.

    Zack Snyder is an amazing man and amazing filmmaker who just wanted to make the films of his dreams but with his vision. People act like he ever owed them anything. He's an artist out to make HIS art and he will continue to do so whether it's with WB or not.
    I liked Justice League a lot more than Batman v Superman or Man of Steel. If Justice League were like those movie I probably wouldn't have liked it either.

  10. #25270
    X-Men & Green Lantern Fan Sam Robards, Comic Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    Justice League is an awful film from start to finish and I think it's pretty clear that absolutely nothing in it was Zack Snyder's idea. That man is a cinematic poet. His films are distinctly his, his art, his vision, and he has so much love and passion for it. You can tell he's an inspired and talented filmmaker because he's not only knowledgeable but capable. The only "bad" thing he's ever done is pissed off some fanboys. He is a masterful director and I can't wait to see more of his work in the future.

    That being said Justice League was clearly not his movie. The entire story is a complete mess. There is ZERO fluidity between the scenes and the characters. Characters interact with each other and don't even appear on screen together. Nothing about the mother boxes was accurate to the comics. All of the immensely profound emotional moments and philosophical dialogue/themes from MoS and BvS were completely lacking in JL. Batman is the worst he's ever been characterized in any film ever because he is never consistent. He goes from dark broody loner to silver age wisecracking Bats like it's nothing and there is no sense of the timeline from BvS and SS. It's just a ridiculous movie that clearly was STOLEN from Zack Snyder who probably had a really incredible vision. Instead what we got was a studio simply trying to market the Justice League brand and not actually tell any story that made sense or fit with any other DC Comics media.

    I honestly think people that say the movie is good are lying. Maybe you like it, because I can definitely see it as pure entertainment since there are some delightful action scenes and fun character moments. But the movie is absolutely abysmal from start to finish and this is coming from someone who considers Man of Steel and BvS to be the greatest superhero films ever made and someone who walked out of Suicide Squad not hating it one bit. There is not even a SEMBLANCE of a decent film in there. No "director's cut" is going to make it any better. It is a tonal mess with a story ripped out of some big wig's asshole. Zack probably wanted to make a good film but it does NOT exist because it was never made. WB got antsy after BvS and took control of the project completely so even though he directed some scenes the movie was never his.

    Zack Snyder is an amazing man and amazing filmmaker who just wanted to make the films of his dreams but with his vision. People act like he ever owed them anything. He's an artist out to make HIS art and he will continue to do so whether it's with WB or not.
    I'm not lying when I say that I like Justice League. It's by no means perfect and did seem tonally disconnected to MoS and BvS, but I enjoyed the heck out of it. I'm going to see it again at the dollar theatre by my house tonight (I don't buy movies digitally, so I have to wait another few weeks before I can own it).

    While your opinion of Snyder is far higher than mine, part of me is disappointed that he couldn't finish things his way, especially considering the circumstances under which he left the project. Them maintaining a bit more of what he'd planned would've been ok, too.
    What can I say but, "I love comics."

  11. #25271
    Astonishing Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    Justice League is an awful film from start to finish and I think it's pretty clear that absolutely nothing in it was Zack Snyder's idea. That man is a cinematic poet. His films are distinctly his, his art, his vision, and he has so much love and passion for it. You can tell he's an inspired and talented filmmaker because he's not only knowledgeable but capable. The only "bad" thing he's ever done is pissed off some fanboys. He is a masterful director and I can't wait to see more of his work in the future.

    That being said Justice League was clearly not his movie. The entire story is a complete mess. There is ZERO fluidity between the scenes and the characters. Characters interact with each other and don't even appear on screen together. Nothing about the mother boxes was accurate to the comics. All of the immensely profound emotional moments and philosophical dialogue/themes from MoS and BvS were completely lacking in JL. Batman is the worst he's ever been characterized in any film ever because he is never consistent. He goes from dark broody loner to silver age wisecracking Bats like it's nothing and there is no sense of the timeline from BvS and SS. It's just a ridiculous movie that clearly was STOLEN from Zack Snyder who probably had a really incredible vision. Instead what we got was a studio simply trying to market the Justice League brand and not actually tell any story that made sense or fit with any other DC Comics media.

    I honestly think people that say the movie is good are lying. Maybe you like it, because I can definitely see it as pure entertainment since there are some delightful action scenes and fun character moments. But the movie is absolutely abysmal from start to finish and this is coming from someone who considers Man of Steel and BvS to be the greatest superhero films ever made and someone who walked out of Suicide Squad not hating it one bit. There is not even a SEMBLANCE of a decent film in there. No "director's cut" is going to make it any better. It is a tonal mess with a story ripped out of some big wig's asshole. Zack probably wanted to make a good film but it does NOT exist because it was never made. WB got antsy after BvS and took control of the project completely so even though he directed some scenes the movie was never his.

    Zack Snyder is an amazing man and amazing filmmaker who just wanted to make the films of his dreams but with his vision. People act like he ever owed them anything. He's an artist out to make HIS art and he will continue to do so whether it's with WB or not.
    "Cinematic Poet" More like more like Cinematic Graffiti Artist paints over others properties and sometimes it pretty and sometimes it just dumb and garish.

  12. #25272
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    Quote Originally Posted by golgi View Post
    Lying? LOL I enjoyed JL for the most part. It's not as good as a bunch of SH movies, but it's still better than the average one. It's somewhat hollow, but the action and interactions between some of the characters are really good. It's something I'd only see once, but most movies I only see once, anyway.
    It is great how some worshippers will speak about the true intentions of others. If they liked BvS that is fine... but only the delusional will deny that it put the brakes on the DCEU in its infancy. Most didn't like BvS and it showed with JL's box office. To call it the best superhero movie ever made is ridiculous and an opinion that would not be shared by anyone other than the Snyder worshippers.

  13. #25273
    Mighty Member WhipWhirlwind's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'll acknowledge that BvS is going to be a cult classic (in the literal sense, not like how some call Pulp Fiction a cult classic), but that's not what WB or most fans wanted it to be.

  14. #25274
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    Sounds way too similar to Elongated Man on the Flash TV show. Funny, immensely powerful, former police detective. I could see why they would want a Flash movie even though there is a Flash TV show,
    because Flash is a major character. But I don't think bringing a minor character to the big screen that is basically the same as a character on TV is the way to go. I sort of doubt we will see a movie version
    of Green Arrow and Black Canary, Martian Manhunter, Atom, or Supergirl either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    I disagree completely. Just because they're in the TV shows doesn't mean we won't see them in films. The movie people don't even care about what the TV show people are doing and probably don't even know Elongated Man is on the Flash. You can tell because Zack Snyder made comments about Gustin's Flash that were completely inaccurate--simply put, he's never seen it. The goal with the films (and the shows) is to create an expansive universe. No characters are off limits for the films.

    And to be fair, Elongated Man and Plastic Man are not the same despite both being goofy and having similar powersets.

    I think a film that uses the FBI agent angle for O'Brien would be perfect. Bring in this goofy hero with the goofiest powers, a man who can be anyone or anything and is practically invincible but yet a complete goofball who seems to not take anything seriously (even though he totally does) into the FBI, a very serious agency with serious views on handling missions would be a perfect superhero film and could represent the contrast of lighter and darker superhero movies.
    Maybe a Plastic Man movie would inspire the writers on The Flash to write Ralph less like O'Brien and more like...y'know, the actual Elongated Man.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    Political debates about the existence of superheroes and vigilantes are adult. Depictions of tragedy, trauma, and paranoia are adult. Questions of identity and isolation from Humanity are adult. Emotional responses to death are adult.
    I think everything bolded is universal more then it is "adult," if only because I've seen content aimed at kids that have addressed those subjects, including Superhero cartoons even.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    An adaptation is as much of an elseworld as anything else because there will still be changes to canon. And it isn't like DCEU Superman is the only movie version of Superman to exist. He wasn't even the only live action version of Superman at the time. And there being more comics than Injustice hadn't stopped comic fans from hating it.
    I tend to differentiate an adaption from an Elseworlds because an adaption, while obviously a different universe in it's own right, is generally meant to take from the source material and distill in some form for audiences.

    An Elseworld is generally just meant to be kind of different or spin things in a different way.

    But I guess it can be a fine line between the two.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    Darkseid storyboard for Justice League scene.

    http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/02/13/d...er-storyboard/

    So pissed off that they cut this.
    Honestly the Hall of Justice nod does more for me then Darkseid .

    Ah well, at least we got a live-action Hall of Justice in the Invasion! Crossover.

  15. #25275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Robards, Comic Fan View Post
    I'm not sure how the movie's performance affects the presence of this scene. I know it wouldn't have affected the movie's gross, but it would have been cool to see and would have provided a through line to what was one of the more talked about scenes in BvS.

    Of course, knowing now how the movie performed, it's likely that scene would just be viewed as a narrative dead-end considering the potentially-not-happening Justice League 2, but at least we'd have seen Darkseid!

    EDIT: Also, this implementation of the scene sounds better than the "Steppenwolf tries to tempt Superman before getting his @$$ KO'd" variant Kevin Smith talked about.

    I'm talking about in hindsight given the alterations made to JL in light of BvS's under-performance. It was probably a good call to excise the Darkseid set-up since JL (as it was originally conceived) was never going to be a standalone story that tied up all the loose ends in one neat bow but part of a two-part epic; continuing to grow the story seeds planted in BvS. Once BvS was received the way it did, they decided to scrap all the world-building since it's simply setting up for a sequel that will never see the light of day. The ghost of BvS haunted Justice League which gravely hindered audience anticipation for the film--leading to overall audience indifference, causing it's lackluster box office.
    Last edited by Amadeus Arkham; 02-13-2018 at 08:39 PM.
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