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  1. #27181
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    That's once again reducing Hal to being just a straight white male (Marvel is still full of them, and people turn up to see them all the time)
    How many of their solo films, especially solo origin films, make as much as Black Panther or even Wonder Woman though? Of course, I didn't even mention not considering rehabilitating Hal's image ever but do keep putting words into my mouth.

  2. #27182
    Astonishing Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    How many of their solo films, especially solo origin films, make as much as Black Panther or even Wonder Woman though? Of course, I didn't even mention not considering rehabilitating Hal's image ever but do keep putting words into my mouth.
    Spider-Man Homecoming and Thor Ragnarok both out preformed Wonder Woman at the Box Office in 2017. Spider-Man, Iron Man, Captain America, & Batman all have billion dollar movies in their franchises Superman 78 when adjusted for inflation is a billion dollar movie. I'm not even a Hal fan I'd rather see Kyle or John personally but Black or White Male or Female doesn't matter if the story is good anyone can be profitable.

  3. #27183
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    Quote Originally Posted by AquaLantern View Post
    I think that one of the most frustrating parts about this. You can barely express liking any of the films without some random jerk labeling you as an apologist or not a ďreal fanĒ of DC. If I can accept people liking the Injustice games despite my belief of them represnting what I think is the biggest problem with DC, why canít people accept that there are people who any of the DCEU films and donít feel any guilt for it?
    I see a lot of that in this thread. You aren't allowed to express anything other than dislike of these movies, which is why i just lurk most of the time. Everyone gets something different out of films.
    My Pulls: Michael Cray, Green Arrow, Justice League, Justice League of America, New Super-Man, Titans, Cyber Force, Moon Knight, Falcon, Spider-Man, Black Hammer, Doctor Star, The Flash, The Terrifics,


    Saying "X don't sell" is one of the things that constantly hold back the comics industry. Maybe "X" didn't sell that one time, but will sell another time if done better or more in tune with contemporary readers.-Tony Isabella

  4. #27184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Spider-Man Homecoming and Thor Ragnarok both out preformed Wonder Woman at the Box Office in 2017. Spider-Man, Iron Man, Captain America, & Batman all have billion dollar movies in their franchises Superman 78 when adjusted for inflation is a billion dollar movie. I'm not even a Hal fan I'd rather see Kyle or John personally but Black or White Male or Female doesn't matter if the story is good anyone can be profitable.
    Wonder Woman's run was historic, though. It's the only modern super hero movie to have a 4x multiplier. Coming off the other DCEU stinkers (in terms of reviews), WW did very well, and made more profit than Spider-Man Homecoming or Thor Ragnarok. In fact, Wonder Woman was the most profitable super hero movie in 2017.

  5. #27185
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Spider-Man Homecoming and Thor Ragnarok both out preformed Wonder Woman at the Box Office in 2017. Spider-Man, Iron Man, Captain America, & Batman all have billion dollar movies in their franchises Superman 78 when adjusted for inflation is a billion dollar movie. I'm not even a Hal fan I'd rather see Kyle or John personally but Black or White Male or Female doesn't matter if the story is good anyone can be profitable.
    The sixth Spider-Man film featuring Iron Man and the third Thor film featuring Hulk did more than the first Wonder Woman film? Shocking.

    And Black Panther managed to outdo all of them anyway by crazy numbers. Using the example of MCU heroes played by actors since close to a decade now is also a misleading comparison as they've had a lot of time to build brand goodwill (especially overseas) and they are actually contributing to the oversaturation of white male heroes, making it increasingly difficult for one to break out in the way Black Panther or Wonder Woman did right off the bat.

    Even Aquaman and Shazam are better off focusing on Momoa's Arthur's South Pacific heritage and the diverse mix of the Shazam Family kids to stand out from the crowd.

  6. #27186
    Astonishing Member Johnny's Avatar
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    It's not simply "diversity" itself that sells a comic book movie, it's a combination of the franchise it's a part of, the cast and crew involved in it and most importantly the marketing. Black Panther had all of those in its favor, combined with a breakout role in Civil War, that's why it ended up making the numbers it did. And even if hadn't done a $1.3 billion, it was never going to bomb or underperform. So no, "oversaturation of white males heroes" is not a problem, it's what you do with the characters and how you choose to promote them. Deadpool is an obvious example for that, he's a disfigured white guy and he makes tons of money because it's a different type of cbm.

  7. #27187
    Looney Toon Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    It's not simply "diversity" itself that sells a comic book movie, it's a combination of the franchise it's a part of, the cast and crew involved in it and most importantly the marketing. Black Panther had all of those in its favor, combined with a breakout role in Civil War, that's why it ended up making the numbers it did. And even if hadn't done a $1.3 billion, it was never going to bomb or underperform. So no, "oversaturation of white males heroes" is not a problem, it's what you do with the characters and how you choose to promote them. Deadpool is an obvious example for that, he's a disfigured white guy and he makes tons of money because it's a different type of cbm.
    Deadpool is of course a movie franchise that is plenty diverse. And clearly diversity is a big selling point in 2021.

    Seriously, are you just that big a Hal Jordan fanatic?
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  8. #27188
    Incredible Member Darkseid Is's Avatar
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    Cast Oscar Issac as Hal please. He felt like Hal in both Star Wars movies and it will make all the people obsessed with race happy. I said before Keith Davis is my dream Darkseid, Oscar Issac is my dream Hal.

  9. #27189
    Astonishing Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Deadpool is of course a movie franchise that is plenty diverse. And clearly diversity is a big selling point in 2021.

    Seriously, are you just that big a Hal Jordan fanatic?
    What's your problem? What does being a Hal Jordan fan have to do with this? All I previously said in regards to Hal was that it's not anymore risky to use him than it is to use anyone else carrying the GL mantle.

    You can't sell a movie based on diversity alone. If that was the case, both A Wrinkle in Time and Ghostbusters would've made a billion dollars.
    Last edited by Johnny; 06-11-2018 at 02:07 AM.

  10. #27190
    Looney Toon Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    What's your problem? What does being a Hal Jordan fan have to do with this? All I previously said in regards to Hal was that it's not anymore risky to use him than it is to use anyone else carrying the GL mantle.

    You can't sell a movie based on diversity alone. If that was the case, both A Wrinkle in Time and Ghostbusters would've made a billion dollars.
    Diversity is A factor, nobody ever said it's the only one.
    The Ghostbusters movie would probably have done worse if it had been the exact same movie except with four white guys.

    and I asked because a Green Lantern movie that doesn't centre around Hal Jordan seems like an abomination to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkseid Is View Post
    Cast Oscar Issac as Hal please. He felt like Hal in both Star Wars movies and it will make all the people obsessed with race happy. I said before Keith Davis is my dream Darkseid, Oscar Issac is my dream Hal.
    Hmm... I can see this.
    Yes, I think he'd be a great Hal.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  11. #27191
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Oscar Isaac playing yet another pilot? I think he'd be better suited for Orion.

  12. #27192
    Astonishing Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Diversity is A factor, nobody ever said it's the only one.
    The Ghostbusters movie would probably have done worse if it had been the exact same movie except with four white guys.
    I had no clue who Leslie Jones or Kate McKinnon were before I saw the trailer for that movie. If you had 4 mediocre white male actors in an even more mediocre movie, it would've made the exact same numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    and I asked because a Green Lantern movie that doesn't centre around Hal Jordan seems like an abomination to you.
    Perhaps you should stop assuming too much about me then. As long as a Green Lantern movie is good, I would enjoy it regardless if it's centered around Hal or not. My argument was that Hal wasn't anymore "risky" to use in the movie than any other Lantern. The Green Lantern property is what's considered to be toxic, not the Hal Jordan character specifically. The vast majority of the people who would go see it have no clue about the name Hal Jordan anyway. They don't care about what's the ethnicity or biological sex of the main characters, all they want is an entertaining movie they could go see with their friends or family. If the movie gives them that, they would see it, if not they would avoid it like it's the plague like they did with the 2011 movie.
    Last edited by Johnny; 06-11-2018 at 04:31 AM.

  13. #27193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    I had no clue who Leslie Jones or Kate McKinnon were before I saw the trailer for that movie. If you had 4 mediocre white male actors in an even more mediocre movie, it would've made the exact same numbers.
    I disagree.

    Perhaps you should stop assuming too much about me then. As long as a Green Lantern movie is good, I would enjoy it regardless if it's centered around Hal or not. My argument was that Hal wasn't anymore "risky" to use in the movie than any other Lantern...
    Try again. You've been going on about this way before I said Hal is riskier than his colleagues.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  14. #27194
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    My argument was that Hal wasn't anymore "risky" to use in the movie than any other Lantern.
    Unless there's non-anecdotal evidence to the contrary, I believe that's 100% right.
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  15. #27195
    Astonishing Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    The sixth Spider-Man film featuring Iron Man and the third Thor film featuring Hulk did more than the first Wonder Woman film? Shocking.

    And Black Panther managed to outdo all of them anyway by crazy numbers. Using the example of MCU heroes played by actors since close to a decade now is also a misleading comparison as they've had a lot of time to build brand goodwill (especially overseas) and they are actually contributing to the oversaturation of white male heroes, making it increasingly difficult for one to break out in the way Black Panther or Wonder Woman did right off the bat.

    Even Aquaman and Shazam are better off focusing on Momoa's Arthur's South Pacific heritage and the diverse mix of the Shazam Family kids to stand out from the crowd.
    Wonder Woman made 821 million so did Spider-Man 2002 and that's not even adjusting for inflation and only had a 139 million dollar budget and that was 2002 dollars and his sequels all made more. Iron Man 3 no cameos outside of Rhodey made over a Billion dollars as did Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises origin films doing great is fantastic sequels doing better is even better because it shows the brand is growing for a studio. Also though plenty of films with straight white guys fail even when connected to well known franchises like Robocop 2014 as does diverse films too while diverse films do great too heck going way back Marvel's first cinematic hit was Blade if a movie is good people will come.

    Also I again personally prefer Alan Scott, Kyle Rayner, and John Stewart over Hal Jordan who I find uninteresting and honestly a bit of a "Mary Sue" with how lauded he is in an organization thousands of years old with thousands of members. But dismissing Hal over race and gender is foolish IMO when under the premise he won't be as profitable as a more diverse characters. I also think it downgrades the achievements of films like Black Panther and Wonder Woman taking the success earned by the filmmakers and giving it to race and gender those films being good had a major factor in helping them Ryan Coogler and Patty Jenkins had more to do with the success than the characters IMO just like Thor being a white guy had way less impact on Thor Ragnarok success than the creative direction of Taika Waititi. It's like saying Deadpool did well because it was rated R while ignoring the real factor was the Studio allowed the creative side freedom to allow Deadpool be Deadpool.

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