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  1. #25936
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    There actually isn't a difference at all. All art is subjective. There's no such thing as objectively good art. If you like it, it's good to you. If you don't, it's bad to you.

    If you could posit any reliable metric of what makes any piece of art "good," I'd love to know about it, because it doesn't exist.

    You can measure critic responses but all critic responses are subjective too. So are box office numbers. So are Oscars. Every metric for judging art is a subjective one.

    As a person that works in the arts for a living I know that the only important opinion is the one that each individual person has since one can only judge any form of art according to one's own inherent biases.
    Of course, if one believes Larry Buchanan is the greatest director of all-time, then he or she is obviously suspect.
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  2. #25937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandfall View Post
    The recent comments from Iron-Man 1 writer and the marvel climate, Logan, TDKT and a bunch of X-Men films would not have been praised today if they were just starting out as unknown properties. they would have been shunned for been serious and not like not all superheroes movies though superhero movies are not exactly like we are forced to believe right now.
    Logan just came out last year man, come on.

  3. #25938
    Astonishing Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbatos666 View Post
    Logan just came out last year man, come on.
    I'd say timing is a factor but it also has to do with the characters involved. Wolverine is expected by general audiences to be in that kind of film.

  4. #25939
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    I'd say timing is a factor but it also has to do with the characters involved. Wolverine is expected by general audiences to be in that kind of film.
    Wolverine's first film got awful reviews and the second one from Logan director got favorable but not great reviews. Ebert in particular when he was alive was scathing of Wolverine as a character and what his films entail.

  5. #25940
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    There was a discussion about this in another thread. Are DC films getting bad reviews because they are serious?

    I know where i stand. Logically this argument has no standing. What about Wonder Woman? It had a couple of laughs but compared to most MCU films its humor was more subdued.

    The best explanation was given by some person whom i said won the thread. Roger Ebert calls 'Some Like It Hot' a great movie. His list of greats include the likes of Raging Bull and Apocalypse Now. Its not about the tone of the film. Its about how well they execute what the film makers are trying. If a period drama does not touch one's heart's strings its useless. Just as a comedy which can't make you laugh. But a comedy which makes you laugh is far better then a serious film which can't make you feel the drama.

    I will add two cents of my own. In comedy we don't care so much about its story or themes or something like that. If it makes you laugh and have a good time it has succeeded in its attempt. But if its dramatic then it is seen with more scrutiny.

    Our perception about what is good or bad varies in many ways from the general audiences and the critics. That Justice League flashback scene of Green Lantern's ring flying away would be awesome. But that means nothing to someone who isn't a DC comics fan. Similarly, we value different things differently. For example this scene.



    That scene of Superman rescuing people in BvS, may look majestic to person A. Making it a great scene for him or her. For person B it might be empty and soulless, which granted looks beautiful but is a futile exercise in trying to hammer Superman into a modern day Jesus. Among the group of persons B, some will find it okay. Not bad. Others would be frustrated that it isn't subtle at all. They would hate it.

    A film is a sum of its parts. Sum of its scenes. So, different people have different experiences. That is why its so difficult to make a good film even if some directors or studios make it look easy by doing it more number of times. Because what is good varies from person to person. And they have to somehow make a film which is considered as good by most people.

    Both Logan and Avengers are great superhero films in their own right. At least that's the consensus of people in general.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 03-13-2018 at 10:11 PM.

  6. #25941
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    I think this video perfectly explains why Zack Snyder's visuals don't quite have the impact on many people despite his painstaking efforts to ensure they are awesome and beautiful:


  7. #25942
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    Regardless of how people feel about Snyder he posed questions and ideas for the mythology of superheroes that we had not seen before.

    This article from last month summed it up perfectly:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.7b6d51525212
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  8. #25943
    Looney Toon Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    Regardless of how people feel about Snyder he posed questions and ideas for the mythology of superheroes that we had not seen before.

    This article from last month summed it up perfectly:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.7b6d51525212
    That's behind a paywall. Can you give us the cliff notes version?
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  9. #25944
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    I think this video perfectly explains why Zack Snyder's visuals don't quite have the impact on many people despite his painstaking efforts to ensure they are awesome and beautiful...
    And that is why Zack Snyder's Watchmen feels like it was made by somebody who studied the book, but only looked at the pictureds and didn't actually read it.

    Here is my favourite clip that shows how Zack Snyder objectively does not know how to make movies. Or at least not complex, serious ones that are any good.

    Last edited by Carabas; 03-14-2018 at 02:30 AM.
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  10. #25945
    Mighty Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    I don’t get why Tyler Perry keeps getting work because I can’t stand his films, but I’m have no problem with those who enjoy those films. Why? Because I have better things to do that doesn’t include being a Debbie Downer on others’ enjoyment.
    Tyler perry wasn't put in charge of a big budget series that wb wanted to compete with Disney and make a billion. His movies tend to cost nothing to make.

    With that said there is nothing wrong with liking the "dcu" films. It's the same as liking chuck Norris 80s films and 70s ninja films. Everyone has films they love others don't. What annoys me is the hardcore dcu fans that attack marvel and come up with every excuse they can why the films failed other then they are bad films!

    I love krull but I know it's a bad film that bombed. I'm fine with that and won't get mad if someone else hates it. It's a guilty pleasure. I won't attack neverending story over it. BVS and justice league can be guilty pleasures also but you have to accept most folks hated bvs or thought jl was "ok".

    And yes marvel fans attacking dcu fans stink also. Attack the film all you want if it stinks but don't attack the fans. They didn't make the movie.

    Ouch I fell off my soapbox. I'll go now.

  11. #25946
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaastra View Post

    I love krull but I know it's a bad film that bombed. I'm fine with that and won't get mad if someone else hates it. It's a guilty pleasure. I won't attack neverending story over it. BVS and justice league can be guilty pleasures also but you have to accept most folks hated bvs or thought jl was "ok".

    And yes marvel fans attacking dcu fans stink also. Attack the film all you want if it stinks but don't attack the fans. They didn't .
    My point is that just because others call BvS a bad film, and I believe it’s a good film, I’m not going to changing my stance on that statement to satisfy them.

    If people enjoy the films for whatever reason, don’t be that one guy to pressure them to forcibly change their opinion.

    Also I feel no guilt or remorse for enjoying Zack Snyder’s contribution to the DCEU.
    Last edited by AquaLantern; 03-14-2018 at 06:27 AM.

  12. #25947
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    Regardless of how people feel about Snyder he posed questions and ideas for the mythology of superheroes that we had not seen before.

    This article from last month summed it up perfectly:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.7b6d51525212
    That doesn't mean he is a good director. X-Men: The Last Stand brought up several moral and ethical questions not seen in any other superhero movie. It asks whether a person would choose to remove an aspect of their identity to better fit in with society and if they should have that choice at all. Each character has to think about what being a minority means to them. Unfortunately it was directed by Brett Ratner. Few people on Earth would call The Last Stand a good movie even though it asks questions not seen before.

  13. #25948
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaastra View Post
    Tyler perry wasn't put in charge of a big budget series that wb wanted to compete with Disney and make a billion. His movies tend to cost nothing to make.

    With that said there is nothing wrong with liking the "dcu" films. It's the same as liking chuck Norris 80s films and 70s ninja films. Everyone has films they love others don't. What annoys me is the hardcore dcu fans that attack marvel and come up with every excuse they can why the films failed other then they are bad films!

    I love krull but I know it's a bad film that bombed. I'm fine with that and won't get mad if someone else hates it. It's a guilty pleasure. I won't attack neverending story over it. BVS and justice league can be guilty pleasures also but you have to accept most folks hated bvs or thought jl was "ok".

    And yes marvel fans attacking dcu fans stink also. Attack the film all you want if it stinks but don't attack the fans. They didn't make the movie.

    Ouch I fell off my soapbox. I'll go now.

    Yes, i hate it when they do that. You have an awesome MCU, why beat upon DCEU. Any fan of comic book movies will be happy with Marvel and Fox and wish WB get their act together.

    Now, Marvel is not the only away. Look at X-Men series of Fox for fans of more serious takes of Snyder. As well as the recent Black Panther. Its possible to succeed by not pandering to the lowest common denominator as such fans say.


    Quote Originally Posted by AquaLantern View Post
    My point is that just because others call BvS a bad film, and I believe it’s a good film, I’m not going to changing my stance on that statement to satisfy them.

    If people enjoy the films for whatever reason, don’t be that one guy to pressure them to forcibly change their opinion.
    Yep. I agree with you. Its not possible to change one's opinion by hearing opposing opinions. I have heard that Man of Steel is terrible. I can't change my opinion. I thought it was good. I think the film had issues, but the good far outweighed the bad.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 03-14-2018 at 06:11 AM.

  14. #25949
    Mighty Member FlashFreak's Avatar
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    I’m hoping DC’s solo films will fare better than their team flicks. I am pretty excited for both Aquaman and Shazam!

  15. #25950
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashFreak View Post
    I’m hoping DC’s solo films will fare better than their team flicks. I am pretty excited for both Aquaman and Shazam!
    Same. And I’m praying the Aquaman movie will finally kill the guys Superfriends stigma once and for all. But my dream DCEU film would be a Static Shock movie directed by Rick Famuyiwa.
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