1. #25246
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbshabo View Post
    Wouldn't static be a better character from Milestone to make the big screen. More recognizable, youthful energy about him, and much more marketable at the box office?
    I think Icon is more marketable but they could honestly do a whole Milestone franchise within the DCEU
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  2. #25247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    If by not getting them, you mean actually focusing on what makes them heroes as opposed to just writing power fantasy self insert mouth pieces who never have to deal with in universe critics that aren't just villains or straw men, yeah I can see how that's an issue for certain superhero fans.
    Dude just stop, who are you to tell someone that they should like Zack Snyder's take on superheroes. Many of us dont.
    You talk about strawmen but you cant see the irony here. You and certain others like him that's cool but others like myself dont and we dont need to be reminded every 5 seconds that he's some intellectual visionary who really understands superheroes but because of Whedon,Goyer, Paramount, WB, Disney, paid critics, Tsujihara, fans like myself and pretty much everyone but his own fanbase has a vendetta against him. He was given multiple chances and he got worse with each.

  3. #25248
    Reader of Stuff Hilden B. Lade's Avatar
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    So more of that Superman scene has leaked via video and images...

    Low quality camrip but if you're interested:

    "He said you'd come... now let's hope you're not too late."

    Haven't found a vid of the other leak yet which is Clark putting the suit on in a callback to MoS.
    Last edited by Hilden B. Lade; 02-12-2018 at 11:02 PM.

  4. #25249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbatos666 View Post
    Dude just stop, who are you to tell someone that they should like Zack Snyder's take on superheroes. Many of us dont.
    You talk about strawmen but you cant see the irony here. You and certain others like him that's cool but others like myself dont and we dont need to be reminded every 5 seconds that he's some intellectual visionary who really understands superheroes but because of Whedon,Goyer, Paramount, WB, Disney, paid critics, Tsujihara, fans like myself and pretty much everyone but his own fanbase has a vendetta against him. He was given multiple chances and he got worse with each.
    When did I say anyone should like his take? I called out the reasons for it and argued against them. I also called out specifically a comment that was in response to an out of context description of a script that hadn't apparently been put into film yet people felt the need to criticise it. If you've got a problem with your opinions being disputed maybe stay off the net. I'm certainly not trying to dictate what does or doesn't count as a take on superheroes nor am I discussing the critics, Whedon or whoever else. Try taking your own advice for once.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 02-12-2018 at 11:12 PM.

  5. #25250
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Static would be fun if they are allowed to make a solo movie for him but Vixen is the best choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    In the numerous scenes and lines and character moments taken straight from iconic and celebrated works.

    It's kind of a big ask for a non-fan to watch this but I think it's borderline empirically false at this point to state that Snyder's character interpretations are far off base.
    Yeah, he's really good at copying imagery. We know that. It was basically the entire concept of his version of Watchmen.

    That is not the same as understanding the genre.
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    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    I think Icon is more marketable but they could honestly do a whole Milestone franchise within the DCEU
    I like Icon but he’s far too similar to Superman and they already have another Superman doppelgänger in Captain Marvel/Shazam on the way to the big screen.

    I think Static is the only other black superhero who could generate a fraction of the excitement that Black Panther has right now.

  8. #25253
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    I like Icon but he’s far too similar to Superman and they already have another Superman doppelgänger in Captain Marvel/Shazam on the way to the big screen.

    I think Static is the only other black superhero who could generate a fraction of the excitement that Black Panther has right now.
    The point is that he's a Superman analogue who is black . that is literally the point

    and to be fair, people don't watch superhero movies for the powersets
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    Mighty Member WhipWhirlwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    I think that's a valid criticism. But there's enough kid-accessible material out there at this point and these adult characters deserve adult interpretations IMO. I know you'd agree for the most part but general audiences don't seem comfortable with it.
    I think Zack Snyder was trying to make high quality adult/serious interpretations of these heroes, my issue is outside of MoS (and even that had its issues) he did not succeed.

    I don't think anybody thinks that tons of humor and light heartedness is the only way to adapt these characters.

  10. #25255
    X-Men & Green Lantern Fan Sam Robards, Comic Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus Arkham View Post
    Specious argument but I disagree. Justice League had overall a better response(critics liked it overall better than BvS with the film's RT score at 40% being higher than BvS's abysmal 27% Tomato score) and audiences seem to have liked it better as well given it's 'B+' Cinemascore while BvS just got 'B' along with the fact that even though Justice League opened lower than BvS--it did better overall in terms of it's theatrical legs: Having the lowest drop-offs for a DCEU film second to only Wonder Woman(JL never suffered the steep drops that it's predecessor did).

    Not to mention most of the praised aspects of Justice League(the humor, the opening Batman scene, the character work) were Whedon contributions which leads me to believe Snyder's version would've actually done worse if he were to finish and release the film the way he originally intended(critically and commercially) without the studio looking over his shoulder and meddling.Especially since there's been numerous reports of his cut of the film being only marginally lighter than BvS but still quite heavy then I imagine it not playing not too well with audiences like what happened with BvS. Having trailers that looked similar to the dour BvS(which was at odds with the whole 'fun' nature of the trailers) didn't do them any favors, imagine the actual film being along the lines of BvS's tone only slightly more hopeful? I think it would've been a disaster(well more of disaster at least). It's rather telling that if you compare the initial trailers to the later ones you can see a marked difference in visual style; the first trailers had that dour, gloomy looking de-saturated MOS/ BVS look while the last trailers had more of a brighter, colorful look, like a lot of the Marvel films have.

    It's complete conjecture to say that Snyder's cut would've been either better or worse than what we got as that's all subjective(as well as conjecture since a Snyder Cut will not be seeing the light of day for quite some time) but I think it's an educated guess that it likely would've been received more negatively.
    Very well met! I hadn't heard some of those figures, especially regarding JL's drops. It seemed like the story with its box office started and ended with the first week's BO. So it's nice to see that there was a bit more of a silver lining (financially) than had been discussed.

    In terms of critical reception, it's very possible (if not likely) that Snyder's cut would've been received worse than the version we got, but the nature of the transition and how they handled the film afterward seemed to color perceptions of it prior to release. It just seems like the film might've had a better chance without all that turmoil and baggage going into it, regardless of the quality of the final product. Of course, we'll never know which one was better unless they actually release a Snyder cut down the line, which is looking less and less likely, and we'll never know how a Synder cut would've done theatrically.

    Again, I say that as a guy who really enjoyed Justice League.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilden B. Lade View Post
    So more of that Superman scene has leaked via video and images...

    Low quality camrip but if you're interested:
    "He said you'd come... now let's hope you're not too late."

    Haven't found a vid of the other leak yet which is Clark putting the suit on in a callback to MoS.
    See, why couldn't they have left that in the movie? It's not like it was that long a clip, and it was nice to see Supes and Alfred meet.

    Still holding out hope thet they'll eventually release some sort of extended edition (not a Synder cut necessarily, just extended) that integrates some of these nice moments that got hacked out.
    What can I say but, "I love comics."

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    Astonishing Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    What did he do that is "adult"? The 3 DCEU films he worked on are all PG-13 and they're not deep or profound and having no bright colors or humor doesn't make a film "adult". Deadpool has a brighter color palette and tons of humor and is way more "adult" given it's R rated, had more violence, nudity, and even torture. But the Deadpool filmmakers get who he is as a character something Snyder I don't think grasp with characters he only gets if it looks "cool" IMO.
    Political debates about the existence of superheroes and vigilantes are adult. Depictions of tragedy, trauma, and paranoia are adult. Questions of identity and isolation from Humanity are adult. Emotional responses to death are adult.

    Snyder “gets” the broad range of interpretations that we’ve seen in countless celebrated works. These aren’t one dimensional characters. He fleshed them out with character choices wholly consistent with many iconic works.

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    Astonishing Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhipWhirlwind View Post
    I think Zack Snyder was trying to make high quality adult/serious interpretations of these heroes, my issue is outside of MoS (and even that had its issues) he did not succeed.

    I don't think anybody thinks that tons of humor and light heartedness is the only way to adapt these characters.
    Criticisms with the execution are fair, but a substantial subset of fans and movie goers really do want lightheartedness with only gritty antihéroes being acceptable exceptions.

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    X-Men & Green Lantern Fan Sam Robards, Comic Fan's Avatar
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    I get was Snyder did with his DC movies in terms of deconstruction and having Superman's symbolic status being earned and not given (shown by the transition of darkness to light seen across his three films), but the problem with using that derivation for the basis of a movie universe is that his version is the only version of these characters (theatrically speaking).

    So people who don't like that take are, essentially, left out in the cold, which is why a lot of these characters are distilled to their purest form (when done well, anyway) when put on the big screen: it gives everyone the type of character they're used to, regardless of the actual character specifics. I'm wholly of the opinion that this universe would've been a lot better received had it been an Elseworlds GN or some other, clearly alternate universe instead of the universe.

    Hopefully that comes across clearly...

    EDIT: Put another way, Injustice is well-received because there are other, more traditional Superman comics out there. If Injustice was the only Superman comic available, people would be having a sh!t hemorrhage.
    Last edited by Sam Robards, Comic Fan; 02-13-2018 at 10:29 AM. Reason: Addition
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    Astonishing Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Robards, Comic Fan View Post
    I get was Snyder did with his DC movies in terms of deconstruction and having Superman's symbolic status being earned and not given (shown by the transition of darkness to light seen across his three films), but the problem with using that derivation for the basis of a movie universe is that his version is the only version of these characters (theatrically speaking).

    So people who don't like that take are, essentially, left out in the cold, which is why a lot of these characters are distilled to their purest form (when done well, anyway) when put on the big screen: it gives everyone the type of character they're used to, regardless of the actual character specifics. I'm wholly of the opinion that this universe would've been a lot better received had it been an Elseworlds GN or some other, clearly alternate universe instead of the universe.

    Hopefully that comes across clearly...

    EDIT: Put another way, Injustice is well-received because there are other, more traditional Superman comics out there. If Injustice was the only Superman comic available, people would be having a sh!t hemorrhage.
    I don’t think you’re far off. When you deconstruct a character like that, unless you perfectly succeed in reconstructing them in the broader narrative, you’re going to turn off certain people. The sweet spot median is usually safest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    I like Icon but he’s far too similar to Superman and they already have another Superman doppelgänger in Captain Marvel/Shazam on the way to the big screen.

    I think Static is the only other black superhero who could generate a fraction of the excitement that Black Panther has right now.
    I think it was a missed opportunity to have Cyborg instead of John Stewart as the black superhero on the group. If they had gone the Timm-verse route and had the John Stewart iteration of Green Lantern be a founding member of the Justice League then they could use JL as the possible springboard for the solo Green Lantern film. Making Cyborg a founding member of the Justice League was a mistake since that Cyborg film will likely never happen(okay, DC might fast-track it after BP's inevitable success since they're so reactive) but still I argue they'd be better off going with Stewart.
    Last edited by Amadeus Arkham; 02-13-2018 at 11:20 AM. Reason: Grammer! Grammer!
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