I was never all that enthused with Deathstroke being in the Batman. I'd much rather they try to salvage Leto's Joker, or use any number of other actual Batman villains.
Deathstroke should have his own film, inspired by the extraordinary Priest-penned series on shelves now. This story will achieve classic-status and he's never been better represented. He doesn't need Batman anymore.
What a mess DC has put themselves in to with news of only having one movie ready next year and the constant changes to directors or even The Batman movie issues. The pressure is really getting to them. The three movies they made so far are not bad at all, it's not like Marvel got it right out of the park right away, they struggled in the beginning too. After the surprise success of Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk did not live up to expectations, Iron Man 2 was not well liked by most people, and Thor barely made a positive impact. I think it all started to go so well with The Avengers movie it self and after that the rest is history.
DC Just needs to get back to the basics and use its source material and not try to out think themselves. Right now they are having a throw everything out there and see what sticks attitude. No plan what so ever
Wonder Woman looks promising. It will probably not end up as acclaimed as say Logan but it looks like it promises at least average to excellent audience/critic reviews and a decent box office.
I feel indifferent towards Nightwing as I was never a big Batfam fan but hey, more branching out seems good.
I'm surprised at some peoples' reaction to Diana being the daughter of Zeus...particularly since she already said she was in the first trailer back in July or so.
"Darkseid...always hated music..."
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You are not kidding! Right from the beginning.
"I had no father. I was brought to life by Zeus!"
That doesn't mean this won't change, since in the latest trailer Queen Hippolyta mentions Diana must not be told her true origin (what she really is). So there may be the story Diana was told, and the reality of her past. I don't see that being a deal-killer for this being a very successful movie.
At this point I'm just tuning all news about the Batman out. It's not like it won't happen eventually - it's Batman, after all. I'm just getting frustrated with the constant yapping off at the mouth. I wish they would just shut up until they have something nailed down for sure. I'm going to be focusing on what's actually happening (Wonder Woman and Aquaman) and forget the rest of the talk.
The one exception will be talk of Teen Titans (or Titans) because that's not a conversation started by the studios.
"Read anything I write for the pleasure of reading it. Whatever else you find will be the measure of what you brought..." - Ernest Hemingway
I get that origins in DC and comics in general are important to fans, myself included, but I find the distinction with Wonder Woman pretty arbitrary. Made of clay and brought to life by the gods, or the daughter of Zeus. In either case she's a demi-goddess with no mortal father born on the same island with the same mother and the same society raising her. I get that there are thematic implications, but it shouldn't matter too much in a movie about her introduction to man's world. If anything, if the Zeus origin reveal makes Wonder Woman stand out from the other Amazons as the trailer seems to suggest, it's a good storytelling element. Similar to Clark finding out his Kryptonian heritage and discovering his true purpose.
First of all, these are not necessarily my own views. I tend to be more of a moderate on this issue. But I talk A LOT with the people who have the biggest problems with the Zeus origin, so I will attempt to convey the majority of the problem as best as I am able.
The main problem a lot of fans have with the Zeus origin is the fact that it undermines Diana's feminist origins and message. Dr. Marston created Wonder Woman to be the first (and really, the ONLY) female superhero who's origins are completely independent of any real male influence. This makes Diana a unique character in a lot of ways.
Now giving Diana a father doesn't tend to be completely unacceptable to a lot of WW fans. It's the specific choice of Zeus that really rankles a lot of fans. For one thing? Zeus is now used as the explanation for Diana's powers. Her power no longer comes from being an Amazon. It comes from being the daughter of a misogynistic tyrant. Dr. Marston originally had Diana's power come entirely from herself. All Amazons could technically do what Diana could do in the Golden Age. The source of their power was "Amazon Training," which unlocked their ability to channel psychic energy through their bodies to greatly enhance their physical capabilities. Wonder Woman was unique among the Amazons only in the sense that she was the best of them at this training. Her power nevertheless was her own.
After the Golden Age, Diana's powers became divine gifts from the gods, but at least those gods were mostly female. Diana's power still came from female sources. The Zeus origin changes all of that. Now Diana's power comes exclusively from a male source. What makes her special is now just due to who her Daddy is.
Another obvious reason why a lot of WW fans oppose the Zeus origin is simply because the New 52 left a bad taste in a lot of long-time WW fan's mouths. Some may have been more receptive to the idea if Azz had done a better job presenting it. He presented it as a completely selfish affair in which Hippolyta knowingly and willingly jumped into bed with a man whom she knew was married (and thus, she willingly betrayed another woman,) and she knew the risks involved in that affair. Hera is infamous for punishing even innocent bystanders in her quest to take revenge on Zeus' lovers and bastards. Thus? Hippolyta willingly and knowingly endangered herself, her daughter, and potentially all of her people just for a selfish thrill for herself. For Wonder Woman fans, accustomed to a Hippolyta who is a noble, admirable, feminist character, this just makes Hippolyta look like a horrible (and not terribly bright) person. Combine this with how Azz portrayed the Amazons as a bunch of bloodthirsty savages with not a single redeeming trait in sight, and the Azz run comes across as a giant middle finger to long-time WW fans.
And before anyone thinks to trot out the old "You just want the Amazons to be perfect!" argument? Can we all just agree that there is a HUGE expanse of territory between "Bloodthirsty savages with no noticeable redeeming traits" and "Perfect little angels who are incapable of moral complexity?" Do NOT try to tell me, or any other experienced Wonder Woman reader, that the pre-Azzarello Amazons/Hippolyta were perfect and uncomplicated angels, because we will BURY you with evidence to the contrary.
Now the movie does not appear to be presenting this origin in anywhere near the same way as Azzarello did. This origin looks like Hippolyta accepted a final gift from the god who just died trying to save her people. This is obviously a vast improvement, but a lot of fans still can't get over the last time we saw this origin done.
Furthermore? Even this new origin carries with it some other problems. Zeus is being made out to be this good and noble king, willing to sacrifice himself for the good of his people. This is whitewashing of the highest order. Zeus, in the myths, is a misogynist monster, and taking that away from him seems almost like avoiding the obvious story hook of having Diana oppose her father's patriarchal ways. If Zeus is re-imagined into a great guy, then it justifies the replacing of Diana's all-female origin because THIS Zeus would actually be worthy of being such a replacement.
For that matter, this problem of whitewashing male characters in Greek mythology is far from limited to this one movie. Seriously, when's the last time we saw a movie or TV show that actually portrayed Zeus as the tyrant he was in the myths? The God of War games are just about the only thing of which I can think. Hercules? When's the last time a movie or TV show portrayed him as suffering from his mythological rage issues that often cost innocent lives? Almost never. Remember Troy? Achilles was portrayed as a misunderstood guy who just needed a good woman to fix him right up. Hollywood seems to willfully avoid talking about the ugly truths of Greek mythology these days.
So, yeah. It's a combination of not wanting to re-live the Azz run combined with the perception that this undermines Diana's feminist message. There's also the argument that the Zeus origin isn't nearly as unique as the clay origin. There have been a TON of children of Zeus throughout pop culture for millennia. Diana's just one more of those now. Where Diana once had one of the most unique origins in all of comics, she now has an origin that's been seen and done many times over.
Now like I said, I don't completely agree with these arguments. I'm just thrilled to get a Wonder Woman movie in which Diana looks like she's going to be portrayed correctly in most other ways. Yeah, I'll always prefer the clay origin, and there's still the chance that they'll follow the 2009 animated movie's example and strike some kind of compromise between the two origins. But for other WW fans, this is an absolutely critical issue.
Though much is taken, much abides; and though
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
--Lord Alfred Tennyson--
Thanks for taking the time to type all that out though. It's definitely true the Greek myths are sanitized to a large extent.
If you have to worry about something you should worry that despite feminism becoming more and more fringe there is a fringe group within feminism that starts hashtags like #fartitout that is proposing that wonder woman should have armpit hair because she is proud of her body and is not worried about the social constructs that society forces on women now if more critics pander to that group then we have a problem
Last edited by yash; 03-21-2017 at 06:37 AM.
Deathstroke is a killing machine who dedicated himself to being the best killer. In doing so he destroyed his perfectly normal life and family. People around him suffer because of his actions, he's become numb to good and looks at people in a material manner. He doesn't need money, he's filthy rich as it is. He works as an inversion to Batman who has sworn to preserve all life as well as Bruce trying to reclaim the family he lost while Slade keeps throwing away his loved ones.Ofcourse that's Batman not the DCEU crazy steve.
Deathstroke could have given us completely fresh material and the idea of Batman taking on an evil twin character which hasn't been done before.
I hope we get that something new than a retread of already used storylines or instragram love sick drug lords.
Last edited by darkseidpwns; 03-22-2017 at 03:30 AM.