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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    For this film to work and be entertaining, you kind of have to keep Geoff Johns stuff far away. It's just not what the JUSTICE LEAGUE as a franchise needs, to differ from the AVENGERS.
    Yes, the movie does need to differ from the Avengers, and John's work is very different from the Avengers.

  2. #62
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Depends on how they do it. A highly trained army of super-strong battle-hardened warriors with highly advanced technology could be a serious threat. Especially if they do the "drown the coast" part of the Atlantean's battle plan. Plus, Ocean Master took out Superman, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman all at once with his trident, so you can make him a serious threat pretty easily.
    Yeah, but that was because that comic was stupid (I mean.....lightning, really? Superman can take Captain Marvel's Shazam bolts in the face and not outright lose but gets taken down by lightning? Wonder Woman can block Darkseid's Omega Beams, but gets taken down by lightning? As for Aquaman......don't know enough about him to tell, actually.)
    Hold those chains, Clark Kent
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  3. #63
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    No way could Ocean Master take down Superman outside of a Geoff Johns comic book.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
    I hear this about Final Crisis being confusing all the time, but nobody ever states why. Without turning this into another anti-Morrison thread, what about it is confusing to you? I don't mean this in a snarky way, either, so I hope I don't offend.
    No offense taken

    I can only speak for myself but Final Crisis made me constantly shake my head and go "What the hell is going on?" It had way, way, way too many characters and the plot seemed to be all over the place. To be honest I had a lot of problems keeping up with the plot and reading it was more like a chore to me and not at all fun. In fact the whole thing would become so confusing to me that I would regularly tune out while reading and just skip entire things because I didnt understand what they meant or how they were connected to each other. Lots of stuff seemed to be totally random as well where I would ask myself "Where does that suddenly come from, this makes no sense".

    All in all reading FC was exhausting to me and thats not what comics should be like. But this is really just me and I understand if others dont feel that way but I can only speak for myself. And general audiences would be even more confused by this. I mean give Final Crisis to a fan of superherofilms who has never read the comics before. He would throw it away after 5 pages or so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    To be fair, the usual event fare is about as complex as a Transformer movie.
    Thats a pretty unfair generalization. I though Infinite Crisis was fairly complex but not overly confusing like Final Crisis. Sure some events (particularly Marvel events) tend to be a bit simpler but putting them on the same level as a Transformers movie (Dont get me wrong, I love the Transformers movies, they are audiovisual masterpieces and a lot of fun but there is really zero depht or complexity to them) is going too far. Maybe events arent just your cup of tea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    adapting it would basically make the Justice League movie look like a carbon copy of Whedon's Avengers.
    Thats pretty much what I have been saying several posts ago. The DCCU needs to have its own identity and feel. It should be as different as possible from the MCU, both in terms of tone and story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Heck, they could adapt Throne of Atlantis. Not only is it a good story and very "cinematic" already, but it'd be a cool way to introduce Aquman into the film-verse.
    Its interesting that everyone here keeps saying "They should adapt this and that story for the movie" . Why should they adapt any comics story? Man of Steel didnt adapt any particular story and it looks like neither will the sequel. Most Marvel films also arent direct adaptations of a particular story but instead take elements and plotlines from different stories and even versions of the comics.

    And I would prefer it if they follow that approach on the JL movie as well. It should be an original story with elements from different kinds of versions and stories. The animated universe is doing the "adapting stories from the comics" thing, so lets make the movieverse do something different. I would love to see Throne of Atlantis as an animated movie but for the DCCU they should keep doing their own stories, inspired by different versions and including elements of several stories instead of doing direct adaptations. And personally I dont see Zack Snyder adapting a specific story from the comics either.

    Yesterday I read something from a writer on a blog which puts it quite well "If you have all that creative freedom and are gonna work your ass off for years to make a movie that so many people are gonna see why would you limit yourself by telling a story thats already been told before instead of creating something that is your own?"

    Nuff said.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade Wilson View Post
    All in all reading FC was exhausting to me and thats not what comics should be like. But this is really just me and I understand if others dont feel that way but I can only speak for myself. And general audiences would be even more confused by this. I mean give Final Crisis to a fan of superherofilms who has never read the comics before. He would throw it away after 5 pages or so.
    I wouldn't assume that, Final Crisis was basically the comic book equivalent of 2001: A Space Odyssey, The Fountain, or Cloud Atlas. I'm not saying it's necessarily as high art as Space Odyssey, but the point is that you don't need to be a long time comic book reader to know that some fiction is difficult and may require some patience for payoff.

    Thats a pretty unfair generalization. I though Infinite Crisis was fairly complex but not overly confusing like Final Crisis. Sure some events (particularly Marvel events) tend to be a bit simpler but putting them on the same level as a Transformers movie (Dont get me wrong, I love the Transformers movies, they are audiovisual masterpieces and a lot of fun but there is really zero depht or complexity to them) is going too far. Maybe events arent just your cup of tea.
    Infinite Crisis was basically just a rumbles comic of Superboy Prime and the rest of the DCU. I mean it started off with seemingly higher aspirations, but that's not what it delivered on.

  6. #66
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    I didn't say that they should, I said that they could. And Man of Steel took elements from several different Superman stories/books and then built it's own story around them. JL could do the same thing.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Yeah, but that was because that comic was stupid (I mean.....lightning, really? Superman can take Captain Marvel's Shazam bolts in the face and not outright lose but gets taken down by lightning? Wonder Woman can block Darkseid's Omega Beams, but gets taken down by lightning? As for Aquaman......don't know enough about him to tell, actually.)
    Magical lightning. Superman's vulnerability to magical attacks, don't forget about that.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    I didn't say that they should, I said that they could. And Man of Steel took elements from several different Superman stories/books and then built it's own story around them. JL could do the same thing.
    Yeah and thats how most Superherofilms do it and I already said that I would want the DCCU to keep doing that as well so I dont know what the problem seems to be here?

  9. #69
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Magical lightning. Superman's vulnerability to magical attacks, don't forget about that.
    Possibly. Doesn't really explain how it took down Wonder Woman, though.
    Hold those chains, Clark Kent
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Possibly. Doesn't really explain how it took down Wonder Woman, though.
    Uhh, Zeus makes all his offspring vulnerable to magical lightning in case he needs a weakness to target. Or something.

  11. #71
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade Wilson View Post
    Thats a pretty unfair generalization. I though Infinite Crisis was fairly complex but not overly confusing like Final Crisis. Sure some events (particularly Marvel events) tend to be a bit simpler but putting them on the same level as a Transformers movie (Dont get me wrong, I love the Transformers movies, they are audiovisual masterpieces and a lot of fun but there is really zero depht or complexity to them) is going too far. Maybe events arent just your cup of tea.
    Well, that makes one of us. I personnaly find them to be similar to an obnoxious noise that just won't go away.
    The little I remember of Infinite Crisis didn't strike me as especially complex. Then again, it has been a while. Still, you won't argue that events such as Secret Invasion, Civil War, Siege , or Blackest Night weren't exactly great examples of smart writing. I mean, maybe events really aren't my cup of tea but......When has anyone (okay.....when has a majorty of readers) actually enjoyed reading any of the stories I just mentionned?
    Hold those chains, Clark Kent
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  12. #72
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneNecromancer View Post
    Uhh, Zeus makes all his offspring vulnerable to magical lightning in case he needs a weakness to target. Or something.
    And Batman never found out about it? Preposterous.
    Hold those chains, Clark Kent
    Bear the weight on your shoulders
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Well, that makes one of us. I personnaly find them to be similar to an obnoxious noise that just won't go away.
    The little I remember of Infinite Crisis didn't strike me as especially complex. Then again, it has been a while. Still, you won't argue that events such as Secret Invasion, Civil War, Siege , or Blackest Night weren't exactly great examples of smart writing. I mean, maybe events really aren't my cup of tea but......When has anyone (okay.....when has a majorty of readers) actually enjoyed reading any of the stories I just mentionned?
    Civil War and Secret Invasion are very popular (Civil War is actually one of my most favorite Marvel stories ever plus I am a huge Mark Millar fan, this is the creator of Kick-Ass for gods sake :P ) and personally I LOVED Blackest Night - possibly my most favorite DC event yet besides Our Worlds at War.

    I am surprised you didnt list Fear Itself though since that is one event that is almost universally loathed from what I have read. people also seem to love to bash AvX and to much lesser degree Age of Ultron and I loved both of them immensely.

    I dont get this trend to hate on events and particularly their writers (this negativity towards writers like Johns, Bendis etc. is getting on my nerves because they are great writers IMO). maybe its because Marvel and DC are doing events so regularly and it becomes the popular thing to just hate on them by default, I dont know. I judge a story by how I like it and how it affects me, wether its an event, crossover, ongoing arc or one shot. If a particular event doesnt appeal to me I skip it (like I did with Infinity - just wasnt my type of story) or if I am not sure I read one or two issues and if its not to my liking then I drop it and move on to better comics (Its not like there arent enough to choose from) instead of endlessly jumping on the hate wagon against a writer, creator or event. Always sickens me how much hatred and anger people have in themselves over such things.

    Also ultimately different people like different things. I am sure you can find even people who loved Fear Itself. Doesnt make them inferior fans that shouldnt be taken seriously.

    As for what you said about writing - and again this all depends on ones personal point of view - but to me Infinite Crisis was pretty complex, but maybe thats because I usually dont read much of the cosmic stuff and someone who reads a lot of that might simply experience it differently. But while IC was complex (to me) it wasnt confusing like FC and was enormously entertaining and fun.

    And I thought particularly Civil War and Blackest Night were greatly written but again this is just my personal point of view and maybe I just experience comics differently then you do and things dont appeal to me, do greatly appeal to you and vice versa. I love so many comic stories that other people online seem to hate and ridicule all the time. Their problem, not mine.

  14. #74
    Veteran Member Mr. Mastermind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    No way could Ocean Master take down Superman outside of a Geoff Johns comic book.
    Ocean Master is however strong as the writer wants him to be. And Johns overpowered Superman to a massive degree in that first JL arc.

    I don't think Aquaman will be in the Justice League movie, though. I think the line up will be the New 52 version minus him.

  15. #75
    Junior Member Ace Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mastermind View Post
    I don't think Aquaman will be in the Justice League movie, though. I think the line up will be the New 52 version minus him.
    I wouldn't be surprised by this either. At most, you would probably see some sort of Easter Egg mention of Atlantis. Seven characters may be a bit too much to develop and many still haven't gotten past the whole idea of Aquaman being a joke to the general public. Or maybe they will have seven and do both Cyborg and Martian Manhunter on the same team. This would give them the opportunity to introduce Aquaman later. I mean, if you can have a successful Avengers film without two of its founding members, then I guess you could do the same for Justice League as well.

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