Page 112 of 123 FirstFirst ... 1262102108109110111112113114115116122 ... LastLast
Results 1,666 to 1,680 of 1843
  1. #1666
    [H+] Techno_Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Technopolis
    Posts
    388

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RLAAMJR. View Post
    Marvel should consider that when they make new characters, or use an old character for something big, it should be a character coming from another country, for example, from Philippines or Tajikistan, etc. Other countries need representatives. It's normal that Marvel has a lot of white characters. And there's already a good number of black characters. Focus on representing countries, not race or color. Because if they think of races or color, we get another black character. The world is not just black and white. We need the real minority representation. Just look at how MCU handles their movies. They even made the movie version of Nick Fury black. Why not making Nick Fury an Asian instead? They already have Black Panther, Falcon and War Machine. Did we get a main Avengers member who is an Asian? But switching color is not a good idea. Just make new characters (or reuse an old character) representing something else and make them relevant.
    Ding-Ding-Ding-DINGDINGDING! Marvel spouts the world diversity, but until you actually come up with some new ethnicites for your new characters, the point is moot. Black, white, man, woman, if they're yet another US Hero that operates in NY, I'm not seeing the big deal. Look at Overwatch. They've got people from all races, creeds, and yes, ethnicities. This makes the whole universe seem more rounded. And that's just in what, a year or so? Compare that with Marvel, who, in about 70 years of publication, has more prominent Alien heroes than non-US Based ones! I mean, that's some gosh dang absurdity right there! Sure, we had those "just slap what this country's famous/infamous for on somebody and call it a day" characters (Shamrock and the like), but that hardly counts, especially since they almost never show up.

    To preach that diversity is at the forefront, and then turn around and do nothing to represent anyone other than people from the USA is hypocritical. I don't really care since I don't need the protagonists to look like me to enjoy a story, but the direction they're taking is dishonest at best. Why couldn't the "smartest person in the world" be someone from Monaco, instead of yet another New Yorker? Why couldn't the new Iron Man be someone from Italy or Greece? Why couldn't the new Thor be someone from Norway or Germany? Why couldn't the Avengers recruit a new hero from Haiti or China? Why are SHIELD Agents all US-Born Citizens (except from a few foreigners) if SHIELD acts as more of a NATO Peace-Keeping Force than strictly an American one? And so on and so forth...

    >inb4 they're US-Comics intended for a US audience

    Then they should just come out and say "we're interested only in US-Based Diversity". That's okay and all, I'm not judging, but at least admit it.

    Honestly, the Big 2 should learn something from both Indies and Eurocomics, and that is having a beginning, a middle and an end. Either reboot the Universe, or simply let the characters age in real time and then retire them, keeping their stories intact and then continuing with new characters. Some mantles could be passed on, some would just rest. Everyone gets definitive closure, and continuity stops posing as much of a problem, since everything becomes more stream-lined and easy to follow.

  2. #1667
    ₳ Ɽ ł ₴ Ɇ ₦ Endsong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,864

    Default

    There's a reason that the All New, All Different X-Men are from all over the world. In that team there was one American added, and one that stayed. Two overall.

    Storm - Africa
    Nightcrawler - Germany
    Colossus - Russia
    Wolverine - Canada
    Banshee - Russia
    Sunfire - Japan
    Thunderbird and Cyclops - America

    There's also the fact that these were all new characters and three of them were racial minorities in a time where that was even less common than today.

    "You are here. You fought the weekend war, and you made it to the other side. Welcome to Monday; you can be anyone here. This is a new day, a new beginning, a new chance to be great. We are wiser and wilder than we were yesterday. Go kiss a stranger. Scream your favorite song from the top of the tallest building. You have the right to remain rock and roll. This is the end of the innocence; youth wasn't wasted on us. Now get out there, and write your story." - Brian Logan Dales, The Summer Set

  3. #1668
    Invincible Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    10,485

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    I'm gonna field this one... and I'm not trying to be condescending or call anyone out here but the answer is right here on the page.

    The second someone says "deserving"
    they have right off the bat at least mentally pit the two against each other, and chose the supremacy of one over the other.

    So its probably a false start to even ASK why people pit the 2 against each other. They were going to be cause they both had the name.

    Being named Captain Marvel is "PROBABLY" a promotion at Marvel comics to be honest. It took them years to wake up and go "Why the hell are we NOT pushing this Brand? Is it because of billy batson? Enough!"

    In my opinion Carol Danvers is everything wrong with inter-sectional feminism.

    Monica... lead the avengers, is arguably way more powerful. . . kept the name alive fore years when carol was on no ones radar.
    Its one of those "Marvel was diverse already things" that people tend to gloss over now that we have raging culture wars going on (and lets not try to deny that or get on a tangent, because not acknowledging it will lead to 8 years in the oval office instead of just 4) but... she's a "Black Girl" tm. Feminism is a thing, but there are a lot of black women who have explained in length that "White feminism" is what we're really seeing which is why it rarely confronts problems affecting women of other cultures. Does it ever? Sure, but primarily its focused on middle-class american w.a.s.p.s or at least that what it looks like to an outsider. ie. me.

    That means in addition to generally being statistically unpleasing to the white male eye there exists a tendency to only write Monica as as
    1.) B Tier 2) Angry/bossy 3.) Un-noticed. She doesn't even make people mad because she wasn't a buxom blonde sex fantasy. they don't see her as having lost her sexuality like people complain about carol being drawn like an entirely different character. They just don't see her at all. She's no platformed by need to uplift this new "feminist"(for lack of better term) version of Carol.
    You can say "Well she's in the ultimate's!" but she's NOT getting a Movie and she's NOT going be the person who knocks out thanos. Who the hell is going to go see a movie called "We're not sure what her name is" anyway

    here's something to think about:




    You can literally take "Genis-vell and replace with carol danvers" change the relation ship from son whatever carol was to marvel and we can all laugh at how monica just doesn't get to have a name.



    Hmm... Its like people who like the name "Binary" for Carol Danvers.
    Also, its no where near original. Its terrible. The Squadron supreme has had "a spectrum" of some ilk since its inception. "Dr.Spectrum" most often but thats even better because of the honorific.
    The fact that they showed up and were operating at the same time killing namor. *facepalm*

    So. Tl;dr...
    Monica, and Carol were put against each other the second someone said "Wait... we already have Monica Captain Marvel literally just waiting for the name." but she's the wrong type of girl power.

    Funny... I'm not even the guy always beating his chest about race. I believe in meritocracy more than anything, but really some of these chocies, really don't stand up to much scrutiny.
    Some of it actually IS ideological, and some of it really is "marketability" based on race.
    Most of it is because "we said so" but really....

    Sunspot, was immortal for many many issues, then cable said "I made you the leader cannonball, cause you're the one who is actually immortal"

    Sunspot. Should be depicted as black... and yes he should be leading teams like he is now but his first appearance had to be ignored to get him more palatable...
    Captain Marvel. Easily could be black right now... but... people are "tired of hearing about race". Feminism and Lgbt, and Cute muslim fan-girls are the in thing.
    The replacements though are ridiculous or lazy. Ignore Existing characters, and just make some of the popular ones "diverse". Resulting in? Various people uniting to stand against
    diversity. Either in public or in private. Smh. Fail.
    Sure, Monica and Carol both had the name, but so did like 3 or 4 other white people. But for some reason people want to pit the white lady who was a "women's libber" back in the 70's against the 80's black lady. No one is mad at the white man who took the name from Monica, or his sister, or the post adolescent who used it for five minutes.

    While you are right when you say historically there have been rifts between white middle class feminism and WoC or "womanism", I think I might have a different view of "intersectionality" than you do. Exactly how is Carol everything that is wrong intersectionist feminism?

    Don't know why you want to replace Genis with Carol in your quote... Genis is the person who took the name from Monica!

    While I do believe that Monica has been under used by Marvel Entertainment, it's not like there was one spot out there and only either Carol or Monica could have it.

    I sorta agree with what you said about Sunspot in the sense that there's no reason he can't be portrayed as dark skinned.
    Last edited by ed2962; 08-13-2017 at 12:47 AM.

  4. #1669
    [H+] Techno_Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Technopolis
    Posts
    388

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Endsong View Post
    There's a reason that the All New, All Different X-Men are from all over the world. In that team there was one American added, and one that stayed. Two overall.

    Storm - Africa
    Nightcrawler - Germany
    Colossus - Russia
    Wolverine - Canada
    Banshee - Russia
    Sunfire - Japan
    Thunderbird and Cyclops - America

    There's also the fact that these were all new characters and three of them were racial minorities in a time where that was even less common than today.
    The X-Men are a tad better in that regard, but still, the fact remains that 95% of Marvel heroes are US-Based. Spreading them out a bit wouldn't hurt. Or heck, just retcon some ancestry into your already existing ones, kinda like how Steve & Matt are Irish.

  5. #1670
    Invincible Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    10,485

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianbarreilles View Post
    We'll have to agree to disagree I don't think dc deserves to get back the name rights of captain marvel period in my opinion and besides I think dc have more or less moved on from even trying to get it back.

    With that said I do think that in a way yeah the fact that marvel needs to be publishing a captain marvel title/series after a certain period to retain the name rights does play a part in the decision making process, but the thing is you're basically assuming that is the entire reason behind why Carol was chosen or the fact according to you at least that is the entire reason why marvel decided to bring back a captain marvel series/title period regardless if it was Carol or not back when they did and it's honestly ridiculous to say that was the entire reason why what happened well happened.

    And unpopular opinion but I hated her binary and warbird days I view them as the lowest point and worst point in Carol's history to be honest like I said I don't think she really recovered from the damage that the 80's and 90's era of marvel did to her until around 2005 or 2006 from that point on I think she finally was on the path that I honestly felt she should've been.
    It's no secret... Marvel has to publish a comic titled "Captain Marvel" every so often or risk losing the trademark. It's common knowledge and the real life reason there's been like 6 different people using the CM name. And why there's been three different "Ms Marvels". And why there's like four (?) different Spider Women.

    They actually lost the rights to use the name "The Champions" until recently.

  6. #1671
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    13,268

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Endsong View Post
    There's a reason that the All New, All Different X-Men are from all over the world. In that team there was one American added, and one that stayed. Two overall.

    Storm - Africa
    Nightcrawler - Germany
    Colossus - Russia
    Wolverine - Canada
    Banshee - Russia
    Sunfire - Japan
    Thunderbird and Cyclops - America

    There's also the fact that these were all new characters and three of them were racial minorities in a time where that was even less common than today.
    Two of these are not like the others.

    Storm - Africa
    Nightcrawler - Europe
    Colossus - Europe
    Wolverine - North-America
    Banshee - Europe
    Sunfire - Asia
    Thunderbird - North-America
    Cyclops - North-America
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
    - Gerhard Bronner

  7. #1672
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    2,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Black Panther will be the first Marvel film where black women get to, you know, actually matter to anything that's going on. (Hell, the only human WOC to have a role that lasted more than one scene was Dr. Cho in Age of Ultron. Zoe Saldana's bi-racial, but her character's green, so it's iffy representation in that sense.)
    You forgot Valkyrie will be in the upcoming thor film.
    You could say the first human black woman to have lines or said anything in the mcu films was Alfre Woodard playing Miriam Sharpe.
    I am trying to remember if she had more then one scene.
    It been awhile since i saw the film.

    Ayo had that famous scene and line “Move.Or you will be moved”.
    I think she was in another scene as well but shown briefly.

    There was that alien black woman from the nova corps shown often in gotg whenever Glenn Close as Irani Rael was shown.
    I can't remember if she had any lines or not.

    I still have not seen spiderman homecoming but it does have black females,some women,some not.
    From what i heard they do have bigger roles so far then the human black females shown in the past mcu films.
    Last edited by mace11; 08-13-2017 at 02:35 AM.

  8. #1673
    Astonishing Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,643

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    What about changes that were always planned to be temporary? Sometimes, creators want to explore what a character means by seeing what happens when another characters tries to take their mantle. So a creator likes Thor, and wants to explore what it means to be Thor, and they go about by actually having someone else wielding the hammer and mantle of Thor. And it's intended as a temporary story, they have every intention of restoring the normal Thor. But then they keep the replacement around as Thunderstrike for another couple years.

    This isn't something new. This has been going on for decades.

    Also! It's impossible to know in advance if something is really going to stick! G. Willow Wilson expected Ms. Marvel to last a single arc. She thought it would have no audience. Or you get other cases where a creative team fully intends for something to be permanent, but another creative team comes along later and reverses it. The nature of Big Two comics, unfortunately.
    But it's not enough to be Thor, she needs to worthier of Mjolnir then Thor had ever been. And the hammer's strength never really came from the Asgardians at all. And Odinson slept around anyway. And his father is not only evil, but a coward, not even close to a powerful as he is hyped up to be and does not hold the respect of most of his subjects.

    Yeah, it's temporary, but just because a writer fully expects the next guy to rebuild bridges does not mean it's okay to needlessly burn them down entirely. And they did know, there's a movie coming and in it Thor is Thor instead of Thor not being Thor and Jane Foster is sitting it out entirely and they knew they'd have to conform to the status quo new readers are expecting to find coming in the comics. It's really nothing like Thunderstrike or Ms Marvel if you ask me.

  9. #1674
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    With the Orishas
    Posts
    3,894

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    But it's not enough to be Thor, she needs to worthier of Mjolnir then Thor had ever been. And the hammer's strength never really came from the Asgardians at all. And Odinson slept around anyway. And his father is not only evil, but a coward, not even close to a powerful as he is hyped up to be and does not hold the respect of most of his subjects.

    Yeah, it's temporary, but just because a writer fully expects the next guy to rebuild bridges does not mean it's okay to needlessly burn them down entirely. And they did know, there's a movie coming and in it Thor is Thor instead of Thor not being Thor and Jane Foster is sitting it out entirely and they knew they'd have to conform to the status quo new readers are expecting to find coming in the comics. It's really nothing like Thunderstrike or Ms Marvel if you ask me.
    Yeah, as much as I like Aaron's run he's pretty much torn down a lot of Thor's backstory and it might be a bit difficult to go back to the status quo.

    I mean, Mjolnir isn't warehousing Odin's power but contains a sentient female galaxy. Neither Thor nor Odin can wield Mjolnir. Odin has been depicted as a mindless bully and Thor himself has been completely deconstructed.

    I love the current story and appreciate writers trying new things but questioning everything that came before and wrecking it can have the opposite effect.

  10. #1675
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    2,330

    Default

    Oh to add to my reply above since i forgot these other woc actresses and characters in mcu films currently playing a major role now and the future.
    I still i have seen by the way gotg vol.2 but asian actress Pom Klementieff as Mantis had a big role from what heard.
    Michelle Yeoh played Aleta Ogord but since i have seen the gotg 2 yet i do not know how big her role is but i read it will be bigger in the future.
    So woc are getting and will be getting bigger roles in mcu films.
    Better late then never.
    Last edited by mace11; 08-13-2017 at 04:33 AM.

  11. #1676
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,855

    Default

    Because it came up, was anyone in some form of comic community during Stern's Avengers? The reaction to Monica always had me curious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Two of these are not like the others.

    Storm - Africa
    Nightcrawler - Europe
    Colossus - Europe
    Wolverine - North-America
    Banshee - Europe
    Sunfire - Asia
    Thunderbird - North-America
    Cyclops - North-America
    Thank you, it is a pet peeve of mine.

  12. #1677
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    476

    Default

    Marvel should consider that when they make new characters, or use an old character for something big, it should be a character coming from another country, for example, from Philippines or Tajikistan, etc. Other countries need representatives. It's normal that Marvel has a lot of white characters. And there's already a good number of black characters. Focus on representing countries, not race or color. Because if they think of races or color, we get another black character. The world is not just black and white. We need the real minority representation. Just look at how MCU handles their movies. They even made the movie version of Nick Fury black. Why not making Nick Fury an Asian instead? They already have Black Panther, Falcon and War Machine. Did we get a main Avengers member who is an Asian? But switching color is not a good idea. Just make new characters (or reuse an old character) representing something else and make them relevant.
    This is a scummy, cowardly opinion.
    Anything but black, This person says.
    Remember earlier when I spoke negatively of intersectionality? This post is why. Doesn't seem like trying to fight injustice seems like you're gathering pokemon.

    1. Its ignorant as can be. This statment implies
    A. This person is tired of black characters getting the spotlight " when we need the REAL minority representation" what hell does that even mean to you? A person who is homogenic within their own country is by default a part of the MAJORITY.
    B. That we would be getting an number of exotic races, from unique places where black people aren't there? Where france? Still a minority? Afganistan? Still a minority. China? Google: Africans in Guangzhou Still in the minority.

    2. This concept actually appeals to the actual racists whom, institute things like the definition of "White" in this country.
    A. this type of thing sets a hierarchy by which "White is the Goal" and other people are of worth less in relation to the "Other" i.e. Black.
    Even in jails thoughtout the south RIGHT NOW in the modern legal system people are classified into W or B. Thats its. Your idea inadvertently supports those who went and rioted in Charlotte
    yesterday.

    The world is NOT black and white but anytime someone says or goes along with this idea they are doing their best to
    "Shade the Apocalypse" in comic terms.

    I live in the south west. RIGHT NOW. Mexicans face discrimination especially here in texas and they need representation in comics sure... okay? Did you know that there are what you'd consider "Black" people in mexico? Mexico didn't recognize them until 2016. No? Its because when you think of mexican you want the stereo typical people that they show on t.v. Right you mean mestizos which is still defining people by race its just not the race you're tired of seeing.


    Contrarywise almost every single hero from australia is an aboriginal, or has powers from "The dreamtime". I'm not even complaining, but its a great example of the problem this diversity issue and why the people who scream the loudest about it has some of the "WORST" ideas because on some level because
    ...for many of them its more about "Fetishizing" than "Diversity".

    It really points out to me the perspective of some people.

    Oh and the idea of getting color coded writers based on race is a terrible idea also that I see much lauded on these forums.
    Thing is I'm actually NOT racist I don't think replacing people based on country OR color is right, but I do recognize the same argument getting thrown out by both sides of the Cntrl-left and the Alt-right. Anything but blacks.
    Come back and talk about why what you said was wrong when you look up the Arabic word for black person, because while we could use an armenian-american superhero that isn't a Kardashian. People aren't here in the U.S. having separate proms for the Armenian populace in high schools because i.e. they count as white.

    Terrible thing is I think marvel already has quite a few black characters, but trying to separate them by country is sillines.
    Last edited by Midnight_v; 08-13-2017 at 05:43 AM.

  13. #1678
    I am Storm's fiance RLAAMJR.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Inside Storm's heart
    Posts
    23,971

    Default

    The point is the black are easily the second mot represented while the thir, fourth, etc most represented is very vague. Marvel makes sure that their movies will always have a black character as one of the main cast while asians and others only get minor roles or cameos.
    "Lightning, deliver this place from darkness." - Storm in X-men TAS.


    You should read The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl solo, X-men Gold, Ta-Nehisi Coates' Black Panther solo, Black Panther And The Crew and Black Panther: World of Wakanda


    "The Month of May is Ororo Munroe aka Storm Month"


    Faves: Ororo Munroe aka Storm (Marvel), X (Dark Horse), Vincent Van Goat (Valiant), Superboy Prime (DC), Ingrid (Street Fighter), Celine Dion (Music)

  14. #1679

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    But it's not enough to be Thor, she needs to worthier of Mjolnir then Thor had ever been. And the hammer's strength never really came from the Asgardians at all. And Odinson slept around anyway. And his father is not only evil, but a coward, not even close to a powerful as he is hyped up to be and does not hold the respect of most of his subjects.

    Yeah, it's temporary, but just because a writer fully expects the next guy to rebuild bridges does not mean it's okay to needlessly burn them down entirely. And they did know, there's a movie coming and in it Thor is Thor instead of Thor not being Thor and Jane Foster is sitting it out entirely and they knew they'd have to conform to the status quo new readers are expecting to find coming in the comics. It's really nothing like Thunderstrike or Ms Marvel if you ask me.
    I like how the newest movie will show that Thor is THOR even without his hammer. That's his name for crying out loud. The enchantment on the hammer bestows Thor's power, not his name. Jane could have EASILY been Thordis but this is all about a corrupted form of feminism where, rather than being equal, the woman so completely one-ups the man that he even loses his identity to her.

    Edit: of course I'm talking about Thor losing his name while he's still around, not dead or MIA.
    Last edited by Rogue Star; 08-13-2017 at 06:17 AM.
    Back from the Phantom Zone... but for how long?

    Clearly, Carol Danvers has taken the expression "man up" a little too seriously.


    FAVES: A-ko (Project A-ko), Rogue, Cassandra Cain, Supergirl (New 52), Power Girl (Kara Zor-El), She-Hulk, Spider-Gwen, Squirrel Girl, Jessica Cruz, Silk, Cassandra Lang

  15. #1680
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    2,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RLAAMJR. View Post
    The point is the black are easily the second mot represented while the thir, fourth, etc most represented is very vague. Marvel makes sure that their movies will always have a black character as one of the main cast while asians and others only get minor roles or cameos.
    There has been other poc of color in main roles in marvel movies overtime.
    Mcu and non-mcu.
    Not as much as black people but they are there and it's increasing.
    Ask anybody in new mutant movie forum for example.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •