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  1. #1636
    Astonishing Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Did you forget a not in here? I thought you were against this.
    I think you're mistaking me for another poster.

    Try Marvel Two-in-One out December 20th! (next week!)


    Check out : The Invisible Woman Appreciation thread!

    I NEED an Invisible Woman solo! It's got to happen sometime right?......right?

  2. #1637
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    What a volatile weekend. Should comics be more or less like real life?

  3. #1638
    All-New Member thesecondkat's Avatar
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    I don't think Hulk works once you take the tragic angle out of him.
    Can't have enough street levelers.

  4. #1639
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianbarreilles View Post
    I don't know if I stated this here yet but I like what marvel is doing with Carol Danvers as captain marvel and how they still very much have faith in and continue to support Carol Danvers as captain marvel despite the overwhelming hate the charcter gets day to day week to week month to month from many fans and readers and despite how much the Carol's captain marvel solo series continues to struggle to sell month to month they still continue to have faith in and support Carol Danvers as captain marvel and I love it.
    I think once the movie drops there really won't be much discussion on the issue, save for perhaps in small pockets by fans. These things get less and less heated over time. That said, there are characters that have been around for much longer than Carol who still don't get any love from the readership. It's like that old Bonnie Raitt song. They either will or they won't take to Carol. No amount of pushing by Marvel will change that. It's just the nature of things. If I was a huge Carol fan, I'd just tune them out.

  5. #1640
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    I think you're mistaking me for another poster.
    Could be. Thanks for clarifying for me.

    I did, sorry for any misrepresentation. I went back and rechecked my so-called "research".
    Last edited by CaptCleghorn; 08-12-2017 at 02:49 PM.

  6. #1641

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    Quote Originally Posted by thesecondkat View Post
    I don't think Hulk works once you take the tragic angle out of him.

    Speaking of, Lou Ferrigno Hulk is and always will be the best Hulk!


    Back from the Phantom Zone... but for how long?

    Clearly, Carol Danvers has taken the expression "man up" a little too seriously.


    FAVES: A-ko (Project A-ko), Rogue, Cassandra Cain, Supergirl (New 52), Power Girl (Kara Zor-El), She-Hulk, Spider-Gwen, Squirrel Girl, Jessica Cruz, Silk, Cassandra Lang

  7. #1642
    BANNED dragonmp93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    What a volatile weekend. Should comics be more or less like real life?
    Well, i would say that right now; real life is more or less like a comic book.

  8. #1643
    All-New Member thesecondkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Star View Post
    Speaking of, Lou Ferrigno Hulk is and always will be the best Hulk!


    That's an unpopular opinion I can get behind.
    Can't have enough street levelers.

  9. #1644
    Astonishing Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I'd say Diablo was more heroic than Deadshot
    The point is, Deadshot shouldn't be heroic at all. He is not a killer with a heart of gold. He is a self-serving coldblooded murder with a deathwish, who deep, deep down, MAY have a sense of right and wrong. However, you couldn't have Will Smith playing someone as unlikable, hence the change. Maybe a less prominent white actor would have been able to be more in-character.Unlike many, I liked the Suicide Squad movie, and, of course I loved Will Smith in the film. Who wouldn't, right? But that was not Deadshot (and, as a consequence, we had a really inefectual Flagg, after all, with what he was being paid, Smith HAD to be the leading man).

    Peace

  10. #1645
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    The point is, Deadshot shouldn't be heroic at all. He is not a killer with a heart of gold. He is a self-serving coldblooded murder with a deathwish, who deep, deep down, MAY have a sense of right and wrong. However, you couldn't have Will Smith playing someone as unlikable, hence the change. Maybe a less prominent white actor would have been able to be more in-character.Unlike many, I liked the Suicide Squad movie, and, of course I loved Will Smith in the film. Who wouldn't, right? But that was not Deadshot (and, as a consequence, we had a really inefectual Flagg, after all, with what he was being paid, Smith HAD to be the leading man).

    Peace
    Smith wasn't bad, but it was obvious that once he signed on it became a "Also starring Will Smith as Will Smith" movie. "Hancock" was drastically written once he became the star. There's lines in "Focus" that don't make sense considering the plot, but they're there to make Smith's character look like not such a bad person.

  11. #1646

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    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    If your change isn't good enough to actually stick, or make an impact in the long run, maybe consider not doing them. Tearing down an established character to raise another up, then erasing said other character entirely isn't restoring the status quo. All the things done to tell us that the character we used to like is the inferior hero still happened, the fans of the new character are likewise not serviced by this development.
    What about changes that were always planned to be temporary? Sometimes, creators want to explore what a character means by seeing what happens when another characters tries to take their mantle. So a creator likes Thor, and wants to explore what it means to be Thor, and they go about by actually having someone else wielding the hammer and mantle of Thor. And it's intended as a temporary story, they have every intention of restoring the normal Thor. But then they keep the replacement around as Thunderstrike for another couple years.

    This isn't something new. This has been going on for decades.

    Also! It's impossible to know in advance if something is really going to stick! G. Willow Wilson expected Ms. Marvel to last a single arc. She thought it would have no audience. Or you get other cases where a creative team fully intends for something to be permanent, but another creative team comes along later and reverses it. The nature of Big Two comics, unfortunately.

  12. #1647
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    The last 2 pages contain some of the moral arguments defending racism I've ever heard. Congratulations I guess..?

    The ideas that start "the system historically" and "fairness vs equality" and "representation matters" seem to be wrought in the unspoken "We want to set the bar against hetero-white-males... cause revenge". Revenge for all the years of their assumed privilege i'm guessing". Sounds pretty evil. Even when you defend it by saying false equivalence it still sounds questionable and you know who things like that are hardest on? Someone who grew up poor. Someone who grew up poor and determined and gave their all to get one shot. So they get to the cusp of success only to be told "You're the wrong race...gender... religion..." we need more "Diversity" and "We're not hiring anymore (blacks)" is immoral no matter who you're turning it on. No matter what your reasoning for it.
    As someone whose actually been confronted with good ol' down home southern racism (I lived in and google this: White Settlement, Texas during the 1900's), having people call me the N-word and other colorful equivalents, and throw cans at me occasionally driving by in their pick-ups as I walked to work... I gotta say... it doens't matter to the person being descriminated against that you're trying to fight injustice by not hiring them. I just matters that they're not getting a chance to put food on the table or money in their pockets. I want you to know that I understand completely the argument your making...but that its the same argument they used to keep black people from buying houses in certain neighborhoods to keep up that gentrification. Doesn't matter to them that a black family might bring down property values or change the demographic... only that they can't buy a house they've saved for cause reasons.
    I respect your right to an opinion. I do. Nonetheless, as unpopular as it is right now...
    In my opinion...its immoral, and despicable and its hilarious because I have the niggling feeling that the majority of people (and not just on these boards) espousing it haven't had a taste of it themselves.

    I'd like to shift back to comics though. Unpopular Opinions. One that's actually been irking me even boiling my blood when I think about it?

    Sunspot.

    I got all these diversity defenders on here and there is little to no outrage about the whitewashing U.S.A. Avengers and then the Henry Zaga thing... Afro-Brazilian.... Afro-brazillian Someone should google that. Best chance to get a black character, diverse and powerful front and centers, best chance to represent an afro-brazillian at a time when Brazil is essentially trying to wipe them out and hide them and what do I hear around the boards "Shut up! Henry Zaga's Brazilian!" yeah. Ok.

    One of the things that I hate about the replacement thing they're doing is that Marvel was always diverse, and so there's lot of minorities that get scrubbed and looked over and will never get the chance at their book because they went this route.

    We got an iceman book and not a Northstar book.

    We get secret empire instead of a Powerman themed event.

    We get mighty whitey Carol Captain Marvel instead of Monica Rambeau Captain Marvel.

    I can't get a "Blade: of the supernatural" Or Eligh Bradley: The Patriot
    but I get miles morales and falcon cap...

    Ideally speaking we could get all or more of the titles but thats never going to happen when they're deciding "we need to push... THIS change" ff gets canceled 30,00 books... cancelled
    Other failing books get relaunches.
    Its all one big bubble of "chosen direction" vs "consumer support" its... frustrating to say the least they've chosen to go the path of least resistance on this one.
    Last edited by Midnight_v; 08-12-2017 at 04:58 PM.
    "...There are some lies that lodge so deep in the hopes of man that they can never be killed no many how many are
    executed to make the lie true..." -On Communism; Gerard Vanderleun

  13. #1648
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Star View Post
    Speaking of, Lou Ferrigno Hulk is and always will be the best Hulk!


    met him a couple of weeks back

    Nice guy

  14. #1649
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    What about changes that were always planned to be temporary? Sometimes, creators want to explore what a character means by seeing what happens when another characters tries to take their mantle. So a creator likes Thor, and wants to explore what it means to be Thor, and they go about by actually having someone else wielding the hammer and mantle of Thor. And it's intended as a temporary story, they have every intention of restoring the normal Thor. But then they keep the replacement around as Thunderstrike for another couple years.

    This isn't something new. This has been going on for decades.
    And there's probably value in that kind of story, examining what a mantle or name really means, although I don't think you need to do it by turning Steve Rogers into a Hydra soldier or turning Thor into a shell of himself without even his bloody name to hold onto. Because that just doesn't look good.

    Also! It's impossible to know in advance if something is really going to stick! G. Willow Wilson expected Ms. Marvel to last a single arc. She thought it would have no audience. Or you get other cases where a creative team fully intends for something to be permanent, but another creative team comes along later and reverses it. The nature of Big Two comics, unfortunately.
    I think in some cases this can be a benefit, more then a curse, depending on the change.

  15. #1650

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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    The last 2 pages contain some of the moral arguments defending racism I've ever heard. Congratulations I guess..?

    The ideas that start "the system historically" and "fairness vs equality" and "representation matters" seem to be wrought in the unspoken "We want to set the bar against hetero-white-males... cause revenge". Revenge for all the years of their assumed privilege i'm guessing". Sounds pretty evil.
    For the record, it's not about revenge. No one's arguing for revenge against cishet white guys. It's about leveling the playing field. It's about working to remove the system barriers in place to people who aren't cishet white men. (And, of course, it's not just gender, sexuality and race that come into play. People with disabilities face plenty of obstacles, and more focus really needs to be put towards them, too, honestly. For all that people talk about Mags Visaggio being trans, she's also autistic, and that probably influences her writing more than being queer does. I'd be curious to see how someone with a physical disability handles the X-Men, too. People with disabilities, be they physical or mental, have life experiences that people without disabilities just never even think of, and it gives them a different perspective, and allows for different narratives.)

    Anyway, the push for diversity isn't a push back against a specific group of people. It's a push in favour other groups, to make things more equitable by removing barriers.

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