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  1. #2026
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    Without Chi, Danny still has more impressive showings than Shang-Chi

    He has defeated Davos who stole his chi and Danny had no chi.
    He defeated Sabretooth while blinded from the sun without his Chi.
    He defeated Sabretooth while sick and winded, and he summoned his own personal chi, not the Dragons.
    He came up with a method on the fly to overcome Mister X while being shot and fighting the Thunderbolts
    In most of the Iron Fist: The Living Weapon, Danny didn't have access to the chi of Shou Lao

    Without chi, I still put Danny above Shang-Chi.

  2. #2027
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Of Atlantis View Post
    Iron Fist had a really disappointing showing in today's Defenders. His portrayal was the one thing I was most worried about being under Bendis's pen and it only took three issues for something completely demeaning and discrediting to happen to him lol
    Im waiting to see where it goes.

  3. #2028
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    Quote Originally Posted by Of Atlantis View Post
    Iron Fist had a really disappointing showing in today's Defenders. His portrayal was the one thing I was most worried about being under Bendis's pen and it only took three issues for something completely demeaning and discrediting to happen to him lol
    Yeah...spoilers:
    Did they seriously just BREAK HIS BACK!?!

    Oh, and I just saw a side by side on Reddit - the scene is a direct homage to Bane breaking Batman's back.
    end of spoilers
    Last edited by Digifiend; 07-12-2017 at 12:01 PM.

  4. #2029

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    Quote Originally Posted by Of Atlantis View Post
    Iron Fist had a really disappointing showing in today's Defenders. His portrayal was the one thing I was most worried about being under Bendis's pen and it only took three issues for something completely demeaning and discrediting to happen to him lol
    #2 had such promise since bendis was the only writer willing to use his high society status as more than him just sleepwalking thru a board meeting. Oh well.

    There is always hope he can turn it around....

  5. #2030
    Amazing Member Cage32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Of Atlantis View Post
    Iron Fist had a really disappointing showing in today's Defenders. His portrayal was the one thing I was most worried about being under Bendis's pen and it only took three issues for something completely demeaning and discrediting to happen to him lol
    Too early to tell.

  6. #2031
    The Celestial Dragon Tien Long's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Of Atlantis View Post
    Iron Fist had a really disappointing showing in today's Defenders. His portrayal was the one thing I was most worried about being under Bendis's pen and it only took three issues for something completely demeaning and discrediting to happen to him lol
    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    #2 had such promise since bendis was the only writer willing to use his high society status as more than him just sleepwalking thru a board meeting. Oh well.

    There is always hope he can turn it around....
    Quote Originally Posted by Cage32 View Post
    Too early to tell.
    I'll agree with Cage on this one. I think it's a bit too early to say whether or not this scene demeaned and lowered Danny. Now, I will say that Diamondback beating up and apparently spoilers:
    breaking Danny's back a la Bane
    end of spoilers certainly shocked me. It reminded me of what other posters here have said about how Danny has been made to look weak in the past and I was disappointed that Danny didn't have a stronger showing.

    HOWEVER, I still thought Danny's showing was strong. His punch against Diamondback was one of the cleanest, most beautifully depicted iron fists I've seen in a good long while. The kick was beautiful, too. Props to Marquez for such art. I could see the situation in another way. Out of all of the four Defenders, Danny is the strongest and Diamondback beating him shows how badass Diamondback is. I'll give this round to Diamondback, but I think Danny is going to make it up in the future.
    "I am a man of peace."

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  7. #2032
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    Quote Originally Posted by Of Atlantis View Post
    Iron Fist had a really disappointing showing in today's Defenders. His portrayal was the one thing I was most worried about being under Bendis's pen and it only took three issues for something completely demeaning and discrediting to happen to him lol
    I don't know - I don't get the problem with this scene. Should heroes never be beaten by an opponent?

    We have to see that Diamondback is an enemy that won't be easy for even the combined power of Jess, Luke, Danny and Matt to take down. We've already seen DB handle Luke in a shockingly easy way so seeing him also have an easy time countering Danny seems like an important scene. The Iron Fist is the strongest weapon in the Defenders' arsenal. If that isn't how they're going to defeat Diamondback, then that raises the stakes in their fight against him while intensifying the mystery of how Diamondback is back from the dead, how he got his powers, and what are his limitations?

    I'm sure Danny will bounce back from this but I sure won't hold this loss against him as being "demeaning".

  8. #2033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tien Long View Post
    HOWEVER, I still thought Danny's showing was strong. His punch against Diamondback was one of the cleanest, most beautifully depicted iron fists I've seen in a good long while. The kick was beautiful, too. Props to Marquez for such art.
    Marquez's art was stunning throughout but, yeah, his depiction of Danny's punch was especially gorgeous.

  9. #2034
    Astonishing Member Of Atlantis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    I don't know - I don't get the problem with this scene. Should heroes never be beaten by an opponent?

    We have to see that Diamondback is an enemy that won't be easy for even the combined power of Jess, Luke, Danny and Matt to take down. We've already seen DB handle Luke in a shockingly easy way so seeing him also have an easy time countering Danny seems like an important scene. The Iron Fist is the strongest weapon in the Defenders' arsenal. If that isn't how they're going to defeat Diamondback, then that raises the stakes in their fight against him while intensifying the mystery of how Diamondback is back from the dead, how he got his powers, and what are his limitations?

    I'm sure Danny will bounce back from this but I sure won't hold this loss against him as being "demeaning".
    It's not about having heroes not beaten ever. It's more about Bendis's overall treatment of Iron Fist as a character. He's never been written well by him, he was always a magic fist deux ex machina that lost a lot of fights. So I'm going to be extra critical of Bendis's Iron Fist, because that was his biggest weak point going into Defenders and one of his biggest weak points throughout New Avengers too. He's never given me reason to believe he can portray him differently and this doesn't help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cage32 View Post
    Too early to tell.
    Too early to tell what though? He was outfought and Bane'd.
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  10. #2035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Of Atlantis View Post
    It's not about having heroes not beaten ever. It's more about Bendis's overall treatment of Iron Fist as a character. He's never been written well by him, he was always a magic fist deux ex machina that lost a lot of fights. So I'm going to be extra critical of Bendis's Iron Fist, because that was his biggest weak point going into Defenders and one of his biggest weak points throughout New Avengers too. He's never given me reason to believe he can portray him differently and this doesn't help.

    Too early to tell what though? He was outfought and Bane'd.
    How many time have we seen Danny get taken out by another in recent comics history? This has happened so much in recent comics history. At times Danny has been used to show how good a combatant another character is. This has happened even when Danny was a guest star in a book such as in his appearance in Mighty Avengers. Fat Cobra, Prince of Orphans, Diamondback, and Wolverine (sparing session) comes to mind just at the top of head. That is why Brisson's first arc was a breath of fresh air. We finally see Danny as the Living Weapon. He loses a lot of fights for a character who is an elite fighter in the marvel universe.

    As for Bendis writing Danny, I just think that Danny as a character will get the short end of the stick. DD, Cage and Jones are his babies. Bendis has never written an Iron Fist in a story that was truly memorable. As stated earlier in this thread, Danny always gets regulated to the character who can hit things really hard under Bendis. I do not expect much better from Bendis in regards of his characterization of Iron Fist.

  11. #2036
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    And the above is why I'm not buying Defenders each month while there's an Iron Fist solo to buy.

    -Pav, who wishes Bendis was better at writing Danny...
    2017 Marvel Monthly Buys: America Ben Reilly: the Scarlet Spider Iron Fist Power Man & Iron Fist Silver Surfer Spider-Gwen

  12. #2037
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    Hello, friends

    I just finished re-reading The Living Weapon and wanted to share my thoughts.

    First, reading Kaare's story in tpb form straight through helped me appreciate these comics even more than I did before, when I read them issue by issue on my tablet.

    Reading IIF right before this also helped me appreciate the thematic connections from that run to TLW and onto the current solo. Some people didn't care for TLW - I think mostly due to the darker tone of Danny's personality and of the art itself, but I now feel more strongly than ever that these runs really do flow well as one cohesive story about Danny Rand and the mythos of the Iron Fist:

    The IIF run brought to Danny knowledge of K'un Lun's secret shames. We saw that Orson Randall was convinced that the Iron Fist brought with it death and destruction, and this perspective must've been hard for Danny to argue against - especially after being tortured in the 8th City under the instructions of the first Iron Fist. Moving straight from the final two stories of IIF into TLW makes it clear that Danny is suffering and lost, disconnected from hope and from life itself. The shameful past of K'un Lun, and his family's relationship with that hurtful city history, has broken his spirit. It isn't until Danny literally fuels himself with the chi of K'un Lun's people that he feels spiritually renewed as well: he has finally chosen life over death! One could say that, instead of being the blade that cuts both ways, he has become again he who can hold back the storm, fighting for life rather than for the revenge of deaths.

    Of course, the problem now is that Danny and Pei stay in NYC and unconnected to the chi of K'un Lun - especially now that the Randall Gate is destroyed.

    Now, in the current series, we see Danny struggling with that choice. He may have finally put to bed his issues with the past, yet it now appears that he needs to rebuild and reconnect with K'un Lun to feel truly fulfilled. (You could argue that Danny's need to reestablish H4H in the recent series stemmed from his subconscious need for family to fuel himself and his purpose in life.)

    I'm excited to see where Ed Brisson and, eventually, Kaare Andrews take Danny, Pei, K'un Lun, and the Iron Fist mythos into the future.

    (I can't help but wonder if the art for Iron Fists suggests a change in tone - one of hope and positivity.)

    Couple of other random thoughts:

    1. What's the deal with Terror Monks? They just seem to do whatever any bad guy says to do at any given point in time. Where do they come from?

    2. I hope we see Brenda again, eventually, but I'm not in a hurry. She was kinda meh.

    3. TLW has so many cool moments I had forgotten, like Danny meeting his mother in the afterlife wearing a wolf as a cloak and hood, or the explanation for how Danny was able to use Rand Tower as a weapon!

    I think maybe this title wasn't as well-received as the current run because it didn't connect itself as overtly to IIF, but I think the connections are there: you just have to read closely

    -Pav, who looks toward the future...
    Last edited by Pav; 07-13-2017 at 12:12 PM.
    2017 Marvel Monthly Buys: America Ben Reilly: the Scarlet Spider Iron Fist Power Man & Iron Fist Silver Surfer Spider-Gwen

  13. #2038
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pav View Post
    And the above is why I'm not buying Defenders each month while there's an Iron Fist solo to buy.

    -Pav, who wishes Bendis was better at writing Danny...
    We'll see how he does going forward but I have to say that the scene in Defenders #2 with Danny and Wilson Fisk was one of my favorite Danny scenes in recent memory.

    As for IF, here's a nice interview over at SyFy with Brisson on the Legacy arc:

    http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/exclusi...-marvel-legacy

  14. #2039
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    Thanks, my friend.
    "Who wouldn't go out with the Black Widow? I'd strangle a litter of kittens for one dinner with her!"
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    Commander Rogers: "Carol, I don't know where NATASHA and JESSICA disappeared to. I don't. We found their R.F.I.D. implants in El Paso..They'd been removed..and then they both just disappeared. Which, I shouldn't have to remind you, they are both trained to do. If they don't want to be found, and they're careful, they're not going to be found."

  15. #2040

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    I've been planning on reading this book already, but Sabretooth means I'll be reading the Legacy run as well. I really dig inverted Sabretooth.

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