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  1. #2041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    I don't know - I don't get the problem with this scene. Should heroes never be beaten by an opponent?

    We have to see that Diamondback is an enemy that won't be easy for even the combined power of Jess, Luke, Danny and Matt to take down. We've already seen DB handle Luke in a shockingly easy way so seeing him also have an easy time countering Danny seems like an important scene. The Iron Fist is the strongest weapon in the Defenders' arsenal. If that isn't how they're going to defeat Diamondback, then that raises the stakes in their fight against him while intensifying the mystery of how Diamondback is back from the dead, how he got his powers, and what are his limitations?

    I'm sure Danny will bounce back from this but I sure won't hold this loss against him as being "demeaning".

    Maybe it was a homage of knight fall but I certainly felt it was a poor showing

    sure danny isn't unbeatable but this was a squash match if ever there was one

    Not sure I'm gonna stick with this since almost every issue seems to be the leads taking a pasting

  2. #2042
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Marquez's art was stunning throughout but, yeah, his depiction of Danny's punch was especially gorgeous.


    The art is top notch

    Probably my best from marvel right now

    It's keeping me on the book

  3. #2043
    The Celestial Dragon Tien Long's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Of Atlantis View Post
    It's not about having heroes not beaten ever. It's more about Bendis's overall treatment of Iron Fist as a character. He's never been written well by him, he was always a magic fist deux ex machina that lost a lot of fights. So I'm going to be extra critical of Bendis's Iron Fist, because that was his biggest weak point going into Defenders and one of his biggest weak points throughout New Avengers too. He's never given me reason to believe he can portray him differently and this doesn't help.



    Too early to tell what though? He was outfought and Bane'd.
    Quote Originally Posted by taozen View Post
    How many time have we seen Danny get taken out by another in recent comics history? This has happened so much in recent comics history. At times Danny has been used to show how good a combatant another character is. This has happened even when Danny was a guest star in a book such as in his appearance in Mighty Avengers. Fat Cobra, Prince of Orphans, Diamondback, and Wolverine (sparing session) comes to mind just at the top of head. That is why Brisson's first arc was a breath of fresh air. We finally see Danny as the Living Weapon. He loses a lot of fights for a character who is an elite fighter in the marvel universe.

    As for Bendis writing Danny, I just think that Danny as a character will get the short end of the stick. DD, Cage and Jones are his babies. Bendis has never written an Iron Fist in a story that was truly memorable. As stated earlier in this thread, Danny always gets regulated to the character who can hit things really hard under Bendis. I do not expect much better from Bendis in regards of his characterization of Iron Fist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    We'll see how he does going forward but I have to say that the scene in Defenders #2 with Danny and Wilson Fisk was one of my favorite Danny scenes in recent memory.

    As for IF, here's a nice interview over at SyFy with Brisson on the Legacy arc:

    http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/exclusi...-marvel-legacy
    Hmmmm, I guess I'm not as taken aback by Danny's showing in this most recent issue as others. Perhaps that's in due part to that I didn't have that much experience with Bendis' Iron Fist in the New Avengers run. Still, I empathize. Iron Fist fans have had to deal with a poor showing of Danny in the comics as well as outside criticisms over the Netflix series over the past decade or so.

    For me, I still think Danny looked cool even in defeat. His iron fist looked pretty sweet and reminded me a lot of Terry Bogard's Burn Knuckle from the Fatal Fury series:


    HOWEVER, as for those who doubt Bendis' characterization of Danny, I strongly agree with Prof. Warren and ask that they check out issue #2. Danny's scene with Kingpin revealed a new layer of character, one who could be debonair and savvy:



    I think better things are on the horizon for Danny in Defenders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pav View Post

    Couple of other random thoughts:

    1. What's the deal with Terror Monks? They just seem to do whatever any bad guy says to do at any given point in time. Where do they come from?

    2. I hope we see Brenda again, eventually, but I'm not in a hurry. She was kinda meh.

    3. TLW has so many cool moments I had forgotten, like Danny meeting his mother in the afterlife wearing a wolf as a cloak and hood, or the explanation for how Danny was able to use Rand Tower as a weapon!

    I think maybe this title wasn't as well-received as the current run because it didn't connect itself as overtly to IIF, but I think the connections are there: you just have to read closely

    -Pav, who looks toward the future...
    Yeah, I wondered about the Shaolin Terror Monks as well. Who are they? Were they the personal guards of Yu-Ti? Maybe some grindhouse-esque Kung Fu name Brubaker came up with? They sounded cool.

    Brenda was nice. I liked her interaction with Pei during TLW and that backstory she had with Danny was tragic.

    The scene Danny had with his mom in the afterlife, that was the turning point of the series for me. Things were really dark prior to that, but things became more positive afterwards. I found Danny's willingness to let go to be quite uplifting.
    "I am a man of peace."

    "A man of peace...who fights like ten tigers."

  4. #2044
    The Celestial Dragon Tien Long's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    We'll see how he does going forward but I have to say that the scene in Defenders #2 with Danny and Wilson Fisk was one of my favorite Danny scenes in recent memory.

    As for IF, here's a nice interview over at SyFy with Brisson on the Legacy arc:

    http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/exclusi...-marvel-legacy
    Really love this interview. You really get a sense of how much Brisson loves Iron Fist and wants to dig into Iron Fist history:

    To start, Iron Fist is one of my favorite characters of all time. If you'd asked me, when I started working at Marvel, which characters I most wanted to write, Iron Fist would definitely have been near the top of that list.

    For me, I think Danny is an interesting character because he's torn between two worlds -- K'un-Lun and his life in New York -- which are incredibly disparate from one another. And though he's got a foot in each, he doesn't fully belong in either. In K'un-Lun, he's an outworlder and is often reminded of it. Even after he proves himself worthy of the mantle of Iron Fist, there are those who refuse to accept it. In New York, he's a billionaire playboy who has it all but still feels that he needs to impress. His quipping during fights, goofing around with Luke, it's all a very thin mask to cover his insecurities. And in there is some interesting meat for character development.
    I particularly liked this:

    Legacy will continue what we've been building since the first issue. Danny's still fighting for legitimacy while looking to save K'un-Lun. The people of Liu-Shi are not through with him or K'un-Lun yet. We're building to a no-holds-barred, all-or-nothing battle that is shaping up to be one of the biggest in Iron Fist's life.
    Oh yeah, bring it on!
    "I am a man of peace."

    "A man of peace...who fights like ten tigers."

  5. #2045
    Amazing Member Cage32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Of Atlantis View Post
    It's not about having heroes not beaten ever. It's more about Bendis's overall treatment of Iron Fist as a character. He's never been written well by him, he was always a magic fist deux ex machina that lost a lot of fights. So I'm going to be extra critical of Bendis's Iron Fist, because that was his biggest weak point going into Defenders and one of his biggest weak points throughout New Avengers too. He's never given me reason to believe he can portray him differently and this doesn't help.



    Too early to tell what though? He was outfought and Bane'd.
    Prof. Warren summates my view. We can't fully comprehend the level of threat the Defenders are dealing with both individually and collectively with this character. DB is not just a guy based on his performances thus far.

  6. #2046
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cage32 View Post
    Prof. Warren summates my view. We can't fully comprehend the level of threat the Defenders are dealing with both individually and collectively with this character. DB is not just a guy based on his performances thus far.
    Granted, but that doesn't change the fact Bendis has had a long history of leaving the character out to dry.

    Maybe I'm too defensive of the character under his pen, but it was something that concerned me going into this title and it took some convincing to buy because I'd sworn off Bendis books lol. I just hate being wrong in yet again putting faith in his writing and having to be disappointed. I mean, if anyone could convince me Bendis would've done as brutal a scene to Luke, Jessica or Matt, I might reconsider. Luke and Jessica both got off easy compared to that.
    Currently Reading: DC: Mr. Miracle /// MARVEL: Iron Fist, Astonishing X-Men /// IMAGE: Renato Jones Season 2: Freelancer, Seven to Eternity

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  7. #2047
    Astonishing Member Winterboy's Avatar
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    "Who wouldn't go out with the Black Widow? I'd strangle a litter of kittens for one dinner with her!"
    Adrian Toomes aka the Vulture

    Commander Rogers: "Carol, I don't know where NATASHA and JESSICA disappeared to. I don't. We found their R.F.I.D. implants in El Paso..They'd been removed..and then they both just disappeared. Which, I shouldn't have to remind you, they are both trained to do. If they don't want to be found, and they're careful, they're not going to be found."

  8. #2048
    Amazing Member Cage32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Of Atlantis View Post
    Granted, but that doesn't change the fact Bendis has had a long history of leaving the character out to dry.

    Maybe I'm too defensive of the character under his pen, but it was something that concerned me going into this title and it took some convincing to buy because I'd sworn off Bendis books lol. I just hate being wrong in yet again putting faith in his writing and having to be disappointed. I mean, if anyone could convince me Bendis would've done as brutal a scene to Luke, Jessica or Matt, I might reconsider. Luke and Jessica both got off easy compared to that.
    Frankly i thought what was done to Luke was pretty quick and brutal. Luke very well would be dead but for the intervention of others. Jess already had her near death experience. Only time will tell for Matt.

  9. #2049

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    I'm hoping Diamondback has a connection to the supernatural, like this entity brought him back to life and he acts as a vessel. Because if he just has garden-variety super strength from a science experiment that would feel routine. Hopefully we do have an arc with Danny's mythos taking the forefront.

    With sabertooth being a focus, it would be cool to see a renewed connection with the X-men (maybe a cute x-girl in danny's future?). Maybe even some of the other characters from claremont's run coming back like Master Khan or the ex-IRA member who Danny befriends?

  10. #2050
    The Celestial Dragon Tien Long's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterboy View Post
    Great. Again, good to see Brisson emphasize his passion for the Iron Fist mythos and Danny's ties to K'un Lun:

    Absolutely. We wanted to reinforce that Danny is here, first and foremost, to fight for K’un-Lun. We also wanted to delve into K’un-Lun’s rich history, picking up threads from past stories and building on that in ways that seemed both logical and interesting. For me, when writing, I’m always looking at past stories and looking for areas where we can fill in some gaps in ways that pushes the story forward while paying homage to what’s come before.

    As to Danny’s future, everything is leading him back to K’un-Lun, and he’s trying his damnedest to get back there. However, there are those who want to stop him. The path home is not going to be an easy one. And even when he gets there — if he gets there — he has no idea what’s waiting for him.
    Interesting. What will be in K'un Lun when Danny goes there?

    As for the art...





    Eh, I'll tell you the truth, first time I saw it, I wasn't feeling it. Looks a little too awkward. However, after a couple repeated views, I'm digging it. I feel that Brisson's writing makes Perkins' art works, so maybe I'll feel the full effect in the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    I'm hoping Diamondback has a connection to the supernatural, like this entity brought him back to life and he acts as a vessel. Because if he just has garden-variety super strength from a science experiment that would feel routine. Hopefully we do have an arc with Danny's mythos taking the forefront.

    With sabertooth being a focus, it would be cool to see a renewed connection with the X-men (maybe a cute x-girl in danny's future?). Maybe even some of the other characters from claremont's run coming back like Master Khan or the ex-IRA member who Danny befriends?
    Yeah, I honestly feel Diamondback is channeling some extra powers here. Honestly, I think he's inherited the Hood's powers. As for future characters in the new Iron Fist, hey wouldn't mind seeing some old school villains back. We actually haven't seen the old, corrupt Yu-Ti since the end of the "Seven Cities" arc. K'un Lun in chaos would be a good opportunity for him to come back.
    "I am a man of peace."

    "A man of peace...who fights like ten tigers."

  11. #2051

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    I'm curious what happened to the first Iron Fist and the other eight city residents, Are they still in K'un L'un?

    having Nu-an go against Sparrow over the position of Yu-ti would be epic.

    Maybe Diamondback's jacket is the hood's hood?

  12. #2052
    Fantastic Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    May have given praise prematurely in regards to Bendis. Anyone want to make bets that in the end Jessica Jones looks like the super star in all of this?


    Be back later to comment on all the cool things I missed on this thread

  13. #2053
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    How has he handled Punisher so far in this book? Not beeen a fan of how he handled him previously

  14. #2054
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    I'm curious what happened to the first Iron Fist and the other eight city residents, Are they still in K'un L'un?

    having Nu-an go against Sparrow over the position of Yu-ti would be epic.



    Maybe Diamondback's jacket is the hood's hood?
    Im hoping blackheart is involved

  15. #2055
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Ted View Post
    How has he handled Punisher so far in this book? Not beeen a fan of how he handled him previously
    Poorly.

    spoilers:
    Easily choked out by Luke Cage. His interactions were as if he were meeting them for the first time.
    end of spoilers
    Currently Reading: DC: Mr. Miracle /// MARVEL: Iron Fist, Astonishing X-Men /// IMAGE: Renato Jones Season 2: Freelancer, Seven to Eternity

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