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  1. #10276
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Potion View Post
    I went back and read, and my god,



    Way to justify killing a child.

    You know what, tumblr might be horrible about other things, but they are very decent at giving factual information regarding the propaganda DC had, not just at the time of Death of the Family, but also after, with the victim blaming that had many readers bought into, this blogger guy included apparently.
    He's also the guy who wants Damian Wayne to go away because he sees him as Gary Stu. But yeah that's not right especially when Batman himself is not exactly a well adjusted man especially during that period where he took in Jason. Which according to him was set during a period where DC sales were at an all time low. What is this victim blaming business about anyway?
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  2. #10277
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Potion View Post
    I'd love to show you some reading alternatives, but I'll have to dig. For now though, try this one:

    http://violetbovine.blogspot.com/201...marketing.html
    Okay thanks.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  3. #10278
    Astonishing Member G-Potion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Which according to him was set during a period where DC sales were at an all time low. What is this victim blaming business about anyway?
    Oh man... it's the way DC referenced Jason after his demise, painting the picture that Jason was a bad robin, reckless, he was killed because he disobeyed Batman. That's where the "bad robin" rep came from, not from his Robin run.

    Please give this a read.

    http://fuckyeahjasontodd.tumblr.com/...blamed-for-his

    http://fuckyeahjasontodd.tumblr.com/...blamed-for-his

  4. #10279
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    And it was Dick or Tim who died in Death in the Family I imagine that blog post would be saying they serve Batman better alive.
    The point I wanted to make is that they (or at least Dick) would have very likely done exactly what Jason did in that story.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    That is really far back so far I don't think anyone really cares about that one. But I suppose Jason becoming the kill happy Red Hood made a bigger impact than Alfred's time as the Outsider.
    The Outsider was actually one of the best villains in that era, and that story went on for several issues, which was quite unusual for the time.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    How long ago was Lance Bruner adopted because he sounds like a pretty minor character.
    Only for one issue.

    It is of course true that Outsider and Lance are obscure, but my point is that the writer (and many others who write stuff like that) have a very selective view. They often ignore negative things about Dick and Tim and positive things about Jason.

  5. #10280
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Potion View Post
    Oh man... it's the way DC referenced Jason after his demise, painting the picture that Jason was a bad robin, reckless, he was killed because he disobeyed Batman. That's where the "bad robin" rep came from, not from his Robin run.

    Please give this a read.

    http://fuckyeahjasontodd.tumblr.com/...blamed-for-his

    http://fuckyeahjasontodd.tumblr.com/...blamed-for-his
    It sounds like DC had come up with something to deflect the negative publicity surrounding a character they had every intention of killing off by blaming it on Jason not themselves. And when they felt that there was a need to they brought Jason back to make more money. So yeah Shawn James must have bought into their propaganda but even if he knew of the lies I think he is too poisoned by Jason's negative depictions as both Robin and his rocky new start as the Red Hood to listen. And thanks for the links I'll read them when I have the time.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  6. #10281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    The point I wanted to make is that they (or at least Dick) would have very likely done exactly what Jason did in that story.
    True and then DC will be quickly resurrect them to save face when the same negative publicity that surrounded Jason's death hits them. Because they might not have the excuse of Jason's own flaws to back the victim blaming nonsense they committed later on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    The Outsider was actually one of the best villains in that era, and that story went on for several issues, which was quite unusual for the time.
    How unusual yet Jason has more potential as mainstay character than the Outsider did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Only for one issue.

    It is of course true that Outsider and Lance are obscure, but my point is that the writer (and many others who write stuff like that) have a very selective view. They often ignore negative things about Dick and Tim and positive things about Jason.
    Wow that's short. Well when you have fans writing instead of seasoned professionals with a balanced view of the characters and can think objectively bad things can happen for no real reason. Shawn James claims that even if he does not like all of DC's characters he will be a professional and think objectively. But yet on his blog is his hypothetical Nightwing run where he will not use Damian only Tim Drake even though he and Dick have equally an strong relationship the one Dick and Tim had says it all.
    Last edited by The Dying Detective; 02-10-2018 at 12:25 PM.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  7. #10282

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    It's cool I just brought this guy's opinion on Jason because I wondered how valid it even was because he's one really negative guy and a very dangerous man in his own right. I have not found any blogs dedicated to fully understanding Jason's character mainly because I didn't really look. But I am aware that vote that decided he should die was a very difficult one even the writer Denny O'Neil suffered because of it. He couldn't even get food without people pointing fingers at him for being the man who killed Jason.
    For an opinion to be valid, it has to be an informed one, and this guy's in particular is a severely biased one and one that get some facts wrong to boot (Loeb never brought Jason back for example).

  8. #10283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    For an opinion to be valid, it has to be an informed one, and this guy's in particular is a severely biased one and one that get some facts wrong to boot (Loeb never brought Jason back for example).
    From what I read on that blog he gets a lot of information wrong which never helpful in making good arguments. What other facts about jason did he get wrong besides the guy who brought Jason back to life and why he was lead to his death in the first place?
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  9. #10284
    THE RED HOOD JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    It sounds like DC had come up with something to deflect the negative publicity surrounding a character they had every intention of killing off by blaming it on Jason not themselves.
    DC, in my opinion, was also using the fans themselves as a way to deflect people from the idea that they were the ones that intended to kill Jason/Robin in the first place. With that 1-900 stunt they had a built in way of pushing off the responsibility for his death onto the fans that voted for it and therefore making it seem like it was something out of their control. I was a reader of Batman at the time and frankly the whole thing pissed me the f*** off. (I'm still angry about it to this day in fact.) I actually dropped out of reading comics at that point for a time because of it. Once I returned to them I was angered by all the victim blaming that was going on. I missed out on all the build up of it so it quite blindsided me to hear about how Jason was the "Bad Robin" given that last I had known he died while attempting to save his own mother from Joker's bomb despite her betrayal. Writers were treating him like trash when they should have been treating him like the hero he was.
    Last edited by JasonTodd428; 02-10-2018 at 01:08 PM.

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    Oh my goodness gracious! I've been bamboozled!

  10. #10285
    Spectacular Member magpieM's Avatar
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    Why care so much about what Shawn James thinks about Jason? I often spot comment like 'he should stay dead' here and there. It's just their opinion because they don't like him. People have different preferences on everything. It's normal. Why would Jason's fans take those negative opinions so seriously as if it is Jason or fans to blame?

    In my personal point of view, some famous DC Batman writers do misunderstand this character a lot. That's a real trouble because with their bad writing of Jason, they can amplify their bias by making their version of 'Jason' canon in popular Batman books, creating more haters.

  11. #10286
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    Quote Originally Posted by magpieM View Post
    In my personal point of view, some famous DC Batman writers do misunderstand this character a lot. That's a real trouble because with their bad writing of Jason, they can amplify their bias by making their version of 'Jason' canon in popular Batman books, creating more haters.
    You said exactly what I was thinking. I'm not a fan of Grant Morrison's Jason even though I loved his writing of the Dick and Damian duo in Batman and Robin Vol 1. Unfortunately that version and the Battle for the Cowl version are mentioned quite alot because they're in the main batman book which has the most readers. Therefore when people who don't know much about Jason they read the Batman and Robin comics and end up with a bad impression. First time posting, hope I made sense.

  12. #10287
    Long Live The Phantom Aioros22's Avatar
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    With the general success the character has gained In his second live, especially outside the Comics Format, It is harder for a writer to exclusively waste bussiness to such an extent. Failure In characterization In squads is the normal trend now.

    The staunt is Stan and buried and all we can do is sing along. As ye should.
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  13. #10288
    Astonishing Member G-Potion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC93 View Post
    First time posting, hope I made sense.
    Welcome, mate!

  14. #10289
    Spectacular Member kiwiliko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC93 View Post
    You said exactly what I was thinking. I'm not a fan of Grant Morrison's Jason even though I loved his writing of the Dick and Damian duo in Batman and Robin Vol 1. Unfortunately that version and the Battle for the Cowl version are mentioned quite alot because they're in the main batman book which has the most readers. Therefore when people who don't know much about Jason they read the Batman and Robin comics and end up with a bad impression. First time posting, hope I made sense.
    The thing where a writer tries to make their least favorite character look bad by having them do bad or out of (relative) character action has been done before and fortunately it looks like they don't stick all that well. Both Damian and Jason were meant to burn bright for one runs ideas then stay dead and out of sight yet here we are.

    Also welcome!

  15. #10290
    Astonishing Member G-Potion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magpieM View Post
    Why care so much about what Shawn James thinks about Jason? I often spot comment like 'he should stay dead' here and there. It's just their opinion because they don't like him. People have different preferences on everything. It's normal. Why would Jason's fans take those negative opinions so seriously as if it is Jason or fans to blame?

    In my personal point of view, some famous DC Batman writers do misunderstand this character a lot. That's a real trouble because with their bad writing of Jason, they can amplify their bias by making their version of 'Jason' canon in popular Batman books, creating more haters.
    I think it's easier to dismiss these bloggers if you are already well informed of the facts. For someone who's not as informed, I can imagine feeling torn as without context, what the blog writers say could make a kind of sense. I remember myself being a bit similar in that I was exposed to N52 RHATO first through negative sources because they were otherwise very knowledgeable on past versions of Jason. Promptly unfollowed them after I read the material myself. Personally I admire The Dying Detective for actively seeking opinions on the matter.

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