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  1. #8761
    Mighty Member G-Potion's Avatar
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    Soy is on fire today. Set the work in progress.


  2. #8762
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Potion View Post
    Soy is on fire today. Set the work in progress.
    Nice. I love that he's such a fan of Jason and we get this stuff.

  3. #8763
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post

    Roy wasn't murderous as much as being pragmatic, and c'mon, he's a guy with a freaking bow. Those things are made to kill. What they were expecting him to do?
    Archers in comics have long been able to be effective without killing, Roy included. And it doesn't matter if its "Pragmatic". It's still killing. And while I've got no problem with Jason or Kory doing this, it actually fits their characters, it doesn't fit Roy at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    Lobdell did reduce the importance of Roy's Navajo past because it wasn't important to the story he wanted to tell. .
    Because removing one of the things that makes a character unique so you can do something far less interesting is a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    And as I've mentioned many times before, he wants to do his own thing rather than follow someone else's steps.
    You talking about Roy or Lobdell? Cause if its the latter, that just raises one of the problems with the Nu52 as a whole: Erasing years of character growth and development so writers can evolve characters in new ways...that were almost never even close to being as good as the original.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    And lastly, Roy does blame Ollie but he's perfectly aware he's the one in the wrong. And he admitted it such on issue 37.
    Exactly and that's the problem. I don't know how Lobdell retold the story and I really don't care (That version's not even canon anymore) Ollie is an arrogant ass who had no idea what he was doing as a guardian and is completely at fault. (And again, there's not point in citing issue numbers with me because as I keep saying, I only read the first storyline.)
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  4. #8764

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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    Archers in comics have long been able to be effective without killing, Roy included. And it doesn't matter if its "Pragmatic". It's still killing. And while I've got no problem with Jason or Kory doing this, it actually fits their characters, it doesn't fit Roy at all.
    It does fit N52 Roy.



    Because removing one of the things that makes a character unique so you can do something far less interesting is a good thing?
    It wasn't removed.



    You talking about Roy or Lobdell? Cause if its the latter, that just raises one of the problems with the Nu52 as a whole: Erasing years of character growth and development so writers can evolve characters in new ways...that were almost never even close to being as good as the original.
    Lobdell. And whether the character being good or not it comes down to subjectivity. Personally I loved N52 Roy whereas I couldn't care less for old Roy.



    Exactly and that's the problem. I don't know how Lobdell retold the story and I really don't care (That version's not even canon anymore) Ollie is an arrogant ass who had no idea what he was doing as a guardian and is completely at fault. (And again, there's not point in citing issue numbers with me because as I keep saying, I only read the first storyline.)
    Then you aren't in position to discuss nor complain about it.

  5. #8765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    Because removing one of the things that makes a character unique so you can do something far less interesting is a good thing?
    Appart from Devlin Graysons Run, his Navajo heritage was iirc never really a big part of his characterisation (NIGHTWING: OLD FRIENDS, NEW ENEMIES he iirc even tried to reconnect with his Irish heritage).

    And I'm not sure if Lobdell really removed it, or just didn't brought it up. And I think in Tynions run it was actually referenced.

  6. #8766
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    Roy greets Kori by speaking Navajo during the DOTF tie in stuff.

  7. #8767
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    Interesting that the current arc will start in the snow and Soy keeps doing the snow Hood ninja..

    Loedbell didn`t erase Roy`s Navajo background, he just seldom used it. Yes, he was the "bro" trope to Jason, think about it in these terms, Roy was the Riggs to Jason`s Murtaugh, except both being crazier dudes in general. Yes it feels like regressing the character back to when he was a teenager compared to his history Pre Flashpoint...which is exactly what they did. They brought him back to the point where he was kicking off his addiction and then joined up with Jason so essentially the main event that shaped him into maturity never came to fruiton. They basically cut any ties to his former characterization to the actual character assasination ( I love Robinson and I have no idea if it was mandated or not but CFJ is by far the stink to a good to great writting career).

    I totally get to whoever followed the character since New Teen Titans to feel a lot is missing and he was acting more like his reckless younger self but that`s just it, he effectively became younger with the reboot.
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  8. #8768
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Apart from Devlin Graysons Run, his Navajo heritage was iirc never really a big part of his characterisation
    That's sort of like saying that apart from Wolfman's run, Dick's relationship with Kory wasn't important to his character. Technically true, but at the same time, there's a reason certain runs are pointed to for specific characters and dynamics. And I'm far from alone in thinking Devin Grayson wrote Roy better than anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    ( I love Robinson and I have no idea if it was mandated or not but CFJ is by far the stink to a good to great writting career).
    There were a LOT of plans changed over the course of CfJ's production...one of which by Robinson's own decision. From what I understand, the absolute mess that was the first 6 issues was caused by editorial squabbling and delays. Somewhere along the line though, once it was clear the book was just going to be a mini as opposed to a new ongoing, it was decided to be used to shake up the GA Family. And so for the last issue, editorial wanted Robinson to kill Mia. He refused...and compromised by saying he'd kill Lian instead.

    Honestly, learning that just made it 1,000 times worse.
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  9. #8769
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    That's sort of like saying that apart from Wolfman's run, Dick's relationship with Kory wasn't important to his character. Technically true, but at the same time, there's a reason certain runs are pointed to for specific characters and dynamics. And I'm far from alone in thinking Devin Grayson wrote Roy better than anyone else.
    Which is in case of Kory also (mostly) true. Outside of the Titans Franchise (and especially in Dicks solo series) she isn't really that important opposed to his relation with Barbara that came up much more in the last ~20 years.


    And honestly nowadays a white writer writing "white Navajo" could massively backfire.
    Last edited by Aahz; 11-14-2017 at 02:37 PM.

  10. #8770
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    Quote Originally Posted by magpieM View Post
    I remember that when the news of Priest moving to Justice League came out, some people in that thread mentioned that he's not very interested in Batfam stories. I don't know if it's really true though
    I think Jason is more unique than most of the Bat Family to attract writers who aren't fond of writing Bat Titles.

  11. #8771
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    As much as I like Soy's art, I'm not a fan of how he draws Jason's face and hair. Besides Jim Lee, I haven't really seen anyone land the look for Jason from the neck up.

  12. #8772
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    Jim Lee only drew him for one issue and a half during "Hush".

    Might be his rendition clicked that well for some but as far as setting a memorable look, I think artwork under the pencils of the likes of Doug Mahnke, Rocafort, Alisson Borges and Soy did more to it. I do like Lee`s take and gawd knows I like the white streak but I don`t necessarily see his face when I instantly picture Jason.

    If I had to choose I`d say I picture the face he has in AK`s game model. Funny how different fans picture him differently.
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  13. #8773
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Potion View Post
    Soy is on fire today. Set the work in progress.

    That's awesome. Thanks for sharing.
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  14. #8774
    Mighty Member G-Potion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpentShrimp View Post
    As much as I like Soy's art, I'm not a fan of how he draws Jason's face and hair. Besides Jim Lee, I haven't really seen anyone land the look for Jason from the neck up.
    I think Soy makes Jason look more his age. Same with Rocafort.

    I think Lost Days nailed the even younger Jason look as well.
    Last edited by G-Potion; 11-14-2017 at 06:15 PM.

  15. #8775
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    Jim Lee only drew him for one issue and a half during "Hush".

    Might be his rendition clicked that well for some but as far as setting a memorable look, I think artwork under the pencils of the likes of Doug Mahnke, Rocafort, Alisson Borges and Soy did more to it. I do like Lee`s take and gawd knows I like the white streak but I don`t necessarily see his face when I instantly picture Jason.

    If I had to choose I`d say I picture the face he has in AK`s game model. Funny how different fans picture him differently.
    I loved Lee's rendition because it still had that street punk look, but with a more mature age. Almost like a gruffer 50's or 60's spy.

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