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  1. #7831

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    Quote Originally Posted by magpieM View Post
    It's really weird that Jason could turn up to be so self-destructive just because he lost one eye and a leg. I mean, seriously, considering the technology level at that time, losing eye/leg shouldn't be a problem at all! He can just replace them with artificial ones with even better quality and extra functions! That's a lame reason.

    And his (step)mother died because of drugs, and his (once) best friend was struggling with them, too. I don't see any possible reason that Jason could let himself to follow the same route.

    I don't believe Jason would kill himself with such a slow and painful way without any dignity. If he hates someone/himself, he'd rather be killed by his enemy, or drag all of them into hell with him, or sacrifice himself honorably in a real battle.
    Exactly

    That is what I've been arguing the entire time.

  2. #7832
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Potion View Post
    I see through your tricks. I remain the good loyal Jason fan. Unlike you two who heel-face-turned at the drop of a hat.
    At least we have two heels to turn. But no, I seriously got a kick out of that page. Dick bounced, Jason was busy having a hard life, Damian is evil, Tim is evil and a hacker!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    Exactly

    That is what I've been arguing the entire time.
    Expecting Tynion not to ruin characters is too much. I honestly couldn't see Dick bouncing either. Even if he didn't want to be Batman, he would stay for the others. He has said as much even recently.

  3. #7833
    Long Live The Phantom Aioros22's Avatar
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    Characters who are known to not give up have fallen quite hard here and there. Batman shown his weakness of control in "Venom" by getting addicted and his pride was his crushing defeat in "Knigthfall" before Bane broke his back. Daredevil lost everything to the Kingpin, became homeless and disappeared only to rise again in "Daredevil: Born Again". Captain America had a storyline about struggling addiction without the serum in his body.

    Its easy to speak on how all Jason needed to do was get new limbs and die fighting but a character's psyche always struggles more than the body.

    Maybe Tynion's take is ooc but not based on just having issues. I dont a want marty stu, I want someone that overcomes the odds and some odds hit harder than others.

    P.S - "drugs" arent mentioned, they show him smoking a blunt but we dont know what it is. Might just be pot.
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  4. #7834
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    Exactly

    That is what I've been arguing the entire time.
    He lost to 100 mystic ninja.

    Most assuredly he was tortured severely before Tim found him as I doubt he lost a leg and eye in battle.

    Bruce was also dead, Jason was burying himself in work.

    Jason giving up after all that isn't farfetch, everyone has a breaking point and this Jason clearly didn't have Bizzaro ir Artemis as his safety net.

  5. #7835
    Amazing Member magpieM's Avatar
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    Btw, it seems that in the future Jason wouldn't end up with Artemis? What a pity...

    I thought they may have a couple of kids together: Daughter becomes an (half) Amazon, son becomes a (half) demon, creating chaos around in the future (when Jason's dead at that time)...

  6. #7836
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    It`s just another equally valid character bit I guess. Loedbell`s Jason without his friends as seen in Future`s End is a man on a suicide mission, as in the sort of guy who will bring down the shit with him in a last big hurrah! I`m aware Dark and others will dislike immensily this sort of take because when Gotham was in the brink and Bruce being dead, etc, he "let it happen" to lose himself. That`s why he probably feels responsible for Tim`s actions in Batwoman #6.

    That said, heroes sometimes don`t get to make a last hurrah until they fall harder and then get back up. Tim at a certain point is someone he knows well "eh, let him handle it, he`s one of the good hats". Until things get even darker and he snaps out of it because something needs to be done. What? Well, we`re still finding out but so far it includes being back to business and allying himself with "Tim`s sworm enemy, Kate.
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    "Take your clowns and get out!"
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    I don`t care
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    "Second star to the right... and straight on till morning"
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  7. #7837
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sardorim View Post
    He lost to 100 mystic ninja.

    Most assuredly he was tortured severely before Tim found him as I doubt he lost a leg and eye in battle.

    Bruce was also dead, Jason was burying himself in work.

    Jason giving up after all that isn't farfetch, everyone has a breaking point and this Jason clearly didn't have Bizzaro ir Artemis as his safety net.
    We`re not even sure if he lost we just know it cost him a leg and eye.

    Like FutureTim says "he did better than you think" and this is a Tim who aknowledges he was never a good a fighter as Jason, Dick and Damian.
    White Tiger P.O.C
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    "Take your clowns and get out!"
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    I don`t care
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    "Second star to the right... and straight on till morning"
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  8. #7838

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sardorim View Post
    He lost to 100 mystic ninja.

    Most assuredly he was tortured severely before Tim found him as I doubt he lost a leg and eye in battle.

    Bruce was also dead, Jason was burying himself in work.

    Jason giving up after all that isn't farfetch, everyone has a breaking point and this Jason clearly didn't have Bizzaro ir Artemis as his safety net.
    Jason doesn't need a safety net.

    But your showing exactly the kind of cheap emotional response Tynion goes for with his writing. "B-but he beat 100 mystical ninjas isn't that badass? And, he like totally loses a leg and an eye because it looks cool..." and so on.

    Tynion fails to give any character he writers any proper depth or nuance.

    For all of its faults, Countdown's writers understood Jason on such a way that Tynion can't

  9. #7839
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    He`s gotta need something, otherwise he wouldn`t turn quasi-suicidal without Roy and Kory in FE.
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    "Take your clowns and get out!"
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    I don`t care
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    "Second star to the right... and straight on till morning"
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  10. #7840
    Amazing Member magpieM's Avatar
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    The only way I image that could make Jason so self-destructive is that he lost his love or his kids because of himself or his mistakes. That would be a real catastrophic event to destroy his spirit.

    Losing eye/leg in a battle (no matter win or lose in the end) against tons of enemies is certainly a bad thing. But I don't think it could make him so emotionally depressed. Sure he'd very upset about it for some time. But he would still try to deal with his lose with artificial body parts and get ready for more fight and revenge. Therefore doing drugs is non-sense because it is towards the opposite direction. There is no turning back from it. You can never get back to peak condition once you get that habit. It is a sign of complete giving up.

  11. #7841
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    Well, he did. We know he`s back into the field to take down Tim later on. Besides, it`s not like Tynion is going deep on it, he`s giving a general thumb on the other Robins for the setup. It`s not even the first time, Jason had Venom and never felt the drawback of habit kick like Bane, Batman and Bronze Tiger did.

    Must be something to do with the cleansing and training under Ducra since it`s unique to him.
    White Tiger P.O.C
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    "Take your clowns and get out!"
    https://68.media.tumblr.com/ec7a9a0c...e68o1_1280.png

    I don`t care
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FPkrddyP0v...s1600/02-4.png

    "Second star to the right... and straight on till morning"
    http://www.benreillytribute.x10host....BenGrieves.jpg

  12. #7842
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    http://mgnemesi.tumblr.com/

    Today’s Prompt is “The Ghost Kid”.

    WHO ELSE IF NOT JASON?!?!?!?!

    Again, I had something else in mind: I wanted us to see Jason in the distance, his full figure standing as if on a mirror or lake and disappearing under layers of white. But for that I’d have to do the heavy lifting in Photoshop , and I thought that’d defeat the purpose of “ink”tober.

    Media: Ball Point pen + Photoshop for levels and the blur



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    https://vimeo.com/195242203

    "Take your clowns and get out!"
    https://68.media.tumblr.com/ec7a9a0c...e68o1_1280.png

    I don`t care
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FPkrddyP0v...s1600/02-4.png

    "Second star to the right... and straight on till morning"
    http://www.benreillytribute.x10host....BenGrieves.jpg

  13. #7843
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    I actually don't have a big problem with TEC, the whole set up for this future wouldn't really work if Jason was still active.

  14. #7844
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    I understand disliking him smoking weed and I can concur with being unecessary but that`s what I agree. He`s gotta be out of comission otherwise you wouldn`t have a setup to begin with. An active Jason wanting revenge only stops when the target is down.

    Between this and Batwoman#6 the whole setup is basically what, five years worth? Tim claims he`s spending a whole year tracking Jason on his last route that ends in the Himalayas and we know Future Tim is mia when we see Kate and Jason in Batwoman(because he`s been imprisioned by Jor-El). That gives time for Jason to snap out it, get better and come back to Gotham.
    White Tiger P.O.C
    https://vimeo.com/195242203

    "Take your clowns and get out!"
    https://68.media.tumblr.com/ec7a9a0c...e68o1_1280.png

    I don`t care
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FPkrddyP0v...s1600/02-4.png

    "Second star to the right... and straight on till morning"
    http://www.benreillytribute.x10host....BenGrieves.jpg

  15. #7845
    Amazing Member magpieM's Avatar
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    Well Venom is another case. It can surely improve his speed/strength and many other things. But I don't think he's using this type of drug in the panel where he is sitting among other junkies on the street. It looks like he is using the other type of drugs that can bring a moment of pleasure and illusion to escape from reality but meanwhile ruin his mind & body in long run.

    If he is really coming back to the fight, then the panel showing his moment of 'lost' and 'upset' conveys some very misleading graphic information regarding the core nature of this character. That's the worst thing for a warrior to touch when he/she is in low time and preparing for future fight. That's just my opinion.

    Hope he can put himself together soon in that story...

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