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  1. #7846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    Between this and Batwoman#6 the whole setup is basically what, five years worth? Tim claims he`s spending a whole year tracking Jason on his last route that ends in the Himalayas and we know Future Tim is mia when we see Kate and Jason in Batwoman(because he`s been imprisioned by Jor-El). That gives time for Jason to snap out it, get better and come back to Gotham.
    It must be more than 5 years from now, at least I interpreted time reference in Batwoman#6 as five years after Tim became Batman, and if Damian was old enough to become Batman before that it must be more like 10-15 years in the future.

    Btw. the Robin how looks actually bad in this is imo Dick, how apparently did nothing after Tim went evil.

  2. #7847
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    I'm actually also curious about the future Jasons in Beyond and Nightwing New Order, I hope at least one of them had his personal happy end.

  3. #7848
    Long Live The Phantom Aioros22's Avatar
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    I get it but Venom is a drug that creates habit kick as the drawback and leaves the user weak. Bruce, Bane and Tiger have all felt it. What he`s smoking is most likely weed or another of the so called recreative/spiritual/medicine drugs. He`s supposed to be still in the Himalayas or werebouts. I`m not saying I like him doing it, he should be anti drugs as it come but like you mention with Venom, different drugs do different things but they`re all usually to numb a certain pain.

    I don`t see them that differently than say smoking cigars or drinking other than some are way faster in grabbing you. It`s all drugs that create habits that long run damage the body and psyche. Jason knew Catherine Todd was a recovering addict but that didn`t exactly stopped him from smoking cigarettes when he was living in the streets. We can all say is not the exact same thing but since we know he`s back in action he either didn`t spent much at it or some other reason. I`m guessing he mostly felt useless and had to find himself again.
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  4. #7849
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    What I am trying to say is, while on any other situation he wouldn`t, in this case is possible both his psyche and body were left too damaged. Batman and Daredevil aren`t the sort to fail resisting getting addicted, or fall down to the point of been living in the streets either but there`s a story here or there about it.

    The most recent was Dark Knight: Rises now that I think about it.

    All I want is this, whatever it is, to be a one thing event. This future and obviously nothing close to a recurring thing and the payoff is, the hero rises out of his own Hell. We know he seemingly does already, which is the main thing that makes it tolerable.
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    "Take your clowns and get out!"
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    I don`t care
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    "Second star to the right... and straight on till morning"
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  5. #7850
    Astonishing Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    It must be more than 5 years from now, at least I interpreted time reference in Batwoman#6 as five years after Tim became Batman, and if Damian was old enough to become Batman before that it must be more like 10-15 years in the future.

    Btw. the Robin how looks actually bad in this is imo Dick, how apparently did nothing after Tim went evil.
    Detective #966 says it takes place at least after 2035.
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  6. #7851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    It must be more than 5 years from now, at least I interpreted time reference in Batwoman#6 as five years after Tim became Batman, and if Damian was old enough to become Batman before that it must be more like 10-15 years in the future.

    Btw. the Robin how looks actually bad in this is imo Dick, how apparently did nothing after Tim went evil.
    I think it is telling Dick`s fanbase aren`t even touching this one. Nobody looks worse than Dick. He was given the thing, doesn`t like it/feel worthy/wathever and just call it quits and leaves.

    Ouch. In fact, ouch number two, Tim at the end basically admits he`s not worthy either. Ouch number three, Damian here is the 666 version, so whether he`s worthy or not, well, a long term debate but since Batman in INC wanted to called it off from ever happening..the only former Robin pointed out as canditate that is not mention as being unqorthy of the mantle is Jason because of what happens to him. Then again because he felt damaged at the time maybe it`s beyond the point but we still don`t know the actual reasons he returned to the stray life, yet.

    Assam was right, Cass is the one
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    https://vimeo.com/195242203

    "Take your clowns and get out!"
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    I don`t care
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FPkrddyP0v...s1600/02-4.png

    "Second star to the right... and straight on till morning"
    http://www.benreillytribute.x10host....BenGrieves.jpg

  7. #7852
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    Inkdaddy and the theatricalred red domino makes an entrance, who else?

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    "Take your clowns and get out!"
    https://68.media.tumblr.com/ec7a9a0c...e68o1_1280.png

    I don`t care
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FPkrddyP0v...s1600/02-4.png

    "Second star to the right... and straight on till morning"
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  8. #7853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    I think it is telling Dick`s fanbase aren`t even touching this one. Nobody looks worse than Dick. He was given the thing, doesn`t like it/feel worthy/wathever and just call it quits and leaves.

    Ouch. In fact, ouch number two, Tim at the end basically admits he`s not worthy either. Ouch number three, Damian here is the 666 version, so whether he`s worthy or not, well, a long term debate but since Batman in INC wanted to called it off from ever happening..the only former Robin pointed out as canditate that is not mention as being unqorthy of the mantle is Jason because of what happens to him. Then again because he felt damaged at the time maybe it`s beyond the point but we still don`t know the actual reasons he returned to the stray life, yet.

    Assam was right, Cass is the one
    Cass has to exsist first to be the one though, so there truly is no one who can replace Batman is the lesson here.

  9. #7854
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    Bah, all it keeps Jason is plot bad luck and Toni drunk Daniel.
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    "Take your clowns and get out!"
    https://68.media.tumblr.com/ec7a9a0c...e68o1_1280.png

    I don`t care
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FPkrddyP0v...s1600/02-4.png

    "Second star to the right... and straight on till morning"
    http://www.benreillytribute.x10host....BenGrieves.jpg

  10. #7855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    Not giving up doesn't necessarily means being a survivalist, Lobdell understood that when he wrote the Future's End issue, Jason is someone whose determined to follow his code, his ideals until the bitter end, he would rather die than giving them up. Tynion wrote the exact opposite of what Jason's character is. He did the same on RHATO when he wrote Jason crying like a child after following blindly the League's orders.



    You're missing the point. any writer that writes Jason as a failure from the get go, that it would be unable to do something more due any perceived flaws on his character is a writer that is bad at writing Jason.
    This is a future where Jason has seen a lot of things go wrong. Sometimes there's only so much someone can take before they will to carry on the cause dies.

  11. #7856

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpentShrimp View Post
    This is a future where Jason has seen a lot of things go wrong. Sometimes there's only so much someone can take before they will to carry on the cause dies.
    Losing Batman and most of the world to a super intelligent AI working with Brainiac, breaking ties with Kori and Roy and surviving an assassination attempt from his former best friend didn't broke Jason's spirit. A fascist Tim is small beans compared to that, more when Jason wasn't even in Gotham at the time.

  12. #7857
    Mighty Member G-Potion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    Losing Batman and most of the world to a super intelligent AI working with Brainiac, breaking ties with Kori and Roy and surviving an assassination attempt from his former best friend didn't broke Jason's spirit. A fascist Tim is small beans compared to that, more when Jason wasn't even in Gotham at the time.
    We don't know the tone of this future nor what he had seen/lost leading up to the battle. In the end we know that he is still in there fighting the good fight so why begrudge him of some years of weakness? Idk I guess I can relate to having an injury that convinced me that im useless at what I do now, and it took years not to treat it, but rather to overcome that fear/weakness in my mind. I considered it the hardest thing I've ever done, and myself mentally stronger because of it. There's no shame in having helps along the way either.

  13. #7858
    Mighty Member TheCape's Avatar
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    In spite everything and even if you find this charactherization occ, Jason still comes looking better than the other batkids.

  14. #7859
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    Quote Originally Posted by magpieM View Post
    The only way I image that could make Jason so self-destructive is that he lost his love or his kids because of himself or his mistakes. That would be a real catastrophic event to destroy his spirit.

    Losing eye/leg in a battle (no matter win or lose in the end) against tons of enemies is certainly a bad thing. But I don't think it could make him so emotionally depressed. Sure he'd very upset about it for some time. But he would still try to deal with his lose with artificial body parts and get ready for more fight and revenge. Therefore doing drugs is non-sense because it is towards the opposite direction. There is no turning back from it. You can never get back to peak condition once you get that habit. It is a sign of complete giving up.
    Kinda also torn because it's a topic worthy of discussion if you consider any Batfamily member losing a bodypart similar to the kind of harsh adjustments soldiers go through giving it a realistic feeling. I can definitely see why losing a limb would have an impact on fully human vigilantes who depend very heavily on their bodies for their life work. Buuuut this is the same universe where Batman is in a team with cyborg so that unfortunately cheapens it.

    Agree a little with Dark tho. It doesn't bug me as much to see Jason hit a low point but I do call it out of character for that low point to be defined by drugs. There's many ways this could've been played but drugs is almost a go to trope when anyone wants to show weakness at this point, Bruce has done it, Aresenal, Bane etc...
    Jason in particular given his history would need a way more thorough explanation than this one panel to justify him ever getting near drugs at all. It's not seeing him at his worst that's an issue, more that the writers choice to have that moment be drugs says they picked a easy way out trope.

    At least he does find his way back. This implies Dick literally left Jason to go nuts for a year and lose his limbs + will to live, left Damian behind to go nuts and then left Tim behind long enough for Tim to go nuts and then kill Damian. Of all the character butcherings to happen that one's quite a winner.

  15. #7860
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    I think it is telling Dick`s fanbase aren`t even touching this one. Nobody looks worse than Dick. He was given the thing, doesn`t like it/feel worthy/wathever and just call it quits and leaves.

    Ouch. In fact, ouch number two, Tim at the end basically admits he`s not worthy either. Ouch number three, Damian here is the 666 version, so whether he`s worthy or not, well, a long term debate but since Batman in INC wanted to called it off from ever happening..the only former Robin pointed out as canditate that is not mention as being unqorthy of the mantle is Jason because of what happens to him. Then again because he felt damaged at the time maybe it`s beyond the point but we still don`t know the actual reasons he returned to the stray life, yet.

    Assam was right, Cass is the one
    Yeah if Cass became Batman in the first place, none of this Drama would have had to happen.
    The amount of butchering is just... I agree with you and kiliwiko, Dick has it the worst. He literally abandons not just Batman but also his brothers.

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