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  1. #211

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    I found curious your claims about Jason being too skinny, while Rocafort's art is pretty stilizated his Jason was in top shape (he also looks somewhat buff on the first issue), Green's did look skinny but then again, his stint on the book wasn't that well received. Kirkham's was also in top shape, the less we talk about Gopez' the better while Sandoval's and Silva's closer to the classic superhero build. And after reading today's Action Comics I'm really looking forward for Kollins' issue.
    Yeah the first issue when he had on the green shirt was cool but at times he drew him too skinny imo

  2. #212

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    If this first interaction between Jason and Bruce is gonna set the tone of Jason role on Eternal, I'm out. We're back to the Jason's defining trait is being the angry member of the batfamily. the bit about Jason's last time on the mansion being him breaking in messing up with the security made me cringe, terrible all around. Gonna give Seeley's a shot to made me change my mind but I'm not too hopeful.

    Is gonna be good for those who want asshole Jason back I guess.

  3. #213
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    Seems more like a middle-line Jason to me than an outright asshole Jason. He still explicitly came to the manor because Bruce called for him, and he seems perfectly fine with watching out for Babs. Some rough and tumble behavior belongs with the character regardless, and I like a little 'tude from the kid, even if it is mostly for show.

  4. #214
    Senior Member Aioros22's Avatar
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    If I may:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    http://imgur.com/aVzkmh0

    Eternal also took a dive on art quality.
    Going by this page, not sure I agree with you Dark. I am actually a little trilled to see that Bruce is the first to shoot in and Jason (again) acts the bigger man and tells him he doesn`t care about an argument with the situation at hand. And lo and behold! Bruce admits that Jason "knows a thing or two about rage" but he`s overcome it.

    This is what I care the most, acknowledgement that Jason moved past certain aspects of his former self. I also mentioned in the other thread not being sure about Jason being too willing to help Barbara, but thinking about it, I`m okay with it. Family is family and having lost both Damin and Dick (as far as he knows) recently, I think it would be more out of character Jason refusing because he`s got his own stuff going.

    Priorities.
    Last edited by Aioros22; 06-11-2014 at 10:58 AM.
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  5. #215

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    If I may:



    Going by this page, not sure I agree with you Dark. I am actually a little trilled to see that Bruce is the first to shoot in and Jason (again) acts the bigger man and tells him he doesn`t care about an argument with the situation at hand. And lo and behold! Bruce admits that Jason "knows a thing or two about rage" but he`s overcome it.

    This is what I care the most, acknowledgement that Jason moved past certain aspects of his former self. I also mentioned in the other thread not being sure about Jason being too willing to help Barbara, but thinking about it, I`m okay with it. Family is family and having lost both Damin and Dick (as far as he knows) recently, I think it would be more out of character Jason refusing because he`s got his own stuff going.

    Priorities.
    The whole interaction feel really bad written when compared to the one they had on the Batman/Superman annual, and the point is that they don't need to keep showing who's the bigger man (again how the annual showed up) and the whole comment about Jason letting him in comes from nowhere since all the times he has showed up on the mansion were because he was called. Honestly it felt like Jason really was a stand-in for Grayson with the animosity, digs and mention about rage were throw in to make him Jason.

    For me was really lazy writing.

  6. #216
    The Red Hood JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    I didn't read any animosity between the two of them there just a little bit of tension maybe. Jason was clearly annoyed at Bruce for calling and thinking that Jason would be happy to drop whatever he was doing to help him out but I see nothing there that indicates anything other than that. I also found it very encouraging that Bruce acknowledged that Jason has dealt with his rage and that he trusts Jason enough now to maybe help Babs deal with her own. That's a shift in how Bruce views Jason and maybe also indicate a shift in how writers look at him as well.
    It was only after Bruce died that I realized what I could do for him....Honor him. Honor what he stood for. Take up the mantle of the Bat. The mantle of my son. Atone for my sins by helping the world. -Thomas Wayne E2 Batman

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  7. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTodd428 View Post
    I didn't read any animosity between the two of them there just a little bit of tension maybe. Jason was clearly annoyed at Bruce for calling and thinking that Jason would be happy to drop whatever he was doing to help him out but I see nothing there that indicates anything other than that. I also found it very encouraging that Bruce acknowledged that Jason has dealt with his rage and that he trusts Jason enough now to maybe help Babs deal with her own. That's a shift in how Bruce views Jason and maybe also indicate a shift in how writers look at him as well.
    This is my problem I don't want it to be acknowledged, I want for everyone to move forward that. In fact remove that line and the scene would be great as it stands now I got the impression that we're getting a one trick pony Jason again.

  8. #218
    Inquisitive Dzetoun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    This is my problem I don't want it to be acknowledged, I want for everyone to move forward that. In fact remove that line and the scene would be great as it stands now I got the impression that we're getting a one trick pony Jason again.
    I understand what you mean. Unfortunately, there is an objective situation to be dealt with here. Winick saddled Jason with a heavy burden of issues, mostly related to rage, in his resurrection story. That might not have been such a problem had there been a timely and effective follow up to deal with the issues of a resurrected Jason and take all that off the table. But, for whatever set of reasons, there was not such an Act II to UTRH, and the character was left to marinate in all that for an extended time. It's true that in the New 52 the characters have been moving forward from that, but it's taken a while and progressed in fits, starts, and reversals (I'm looking at you, Tomasi). For most people, rage is still the dominant image of Jason and his relationship with Bruce. It has reached the point that it has to be explicitly acknowledged before you can move beyond it. In fact, it will probably have to be explicitly acknowledged several times more. Maybe a good model here is Hal Jordan. After his return, there was a while when his time as Parallax had to be explicitly mentioned in almost every arc so that it could be put aside. But eventually he moved beyond that, and hopefully Jason and Bruce will move beyond there situation as well.

  9. #219
    The Red Hood JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    This is my problem I don't want it to be acknowledged, I want for everyone to move forward that. In fact remove that line and the scene would be great as it stands now I got the impression that we're getting a one trick pony Jason again.
    No, a one trick pony Jason would have come into Wayne manor with guns blazing while yelling about how things wouldn't have gotten to the point they have in Gotham if Bruce would just let go of his "antiquated morality" and kill criminals instead of letting them live. Bruce acknowledging that Jason has dealt with his issues seems more to me like he's reaffirming his trust in Jason rather than a sign that things are back to square one with them. I think on some level Jason needs to hear that he is trusted by Bruce now in spite of what may have happened in the past. They have only just reconciled and they still have issues to work through but Jason feeling that Bruce trusts him is an important step in the right direction I think and he likely needs to have that trust reaffirmed once in a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dzetoun View Post
    It has reached the point that it has to be explicitly acknowledged before you can move beyond it. In fact, it will probably have to be explicitly acknowledged several times more. Maybe a good model here is Hal Jordan. After his return, there was a while when his time as Parallax had to be explicitly mentioned in almost every arc so that it could be put aside. But eventually he moved beyond that, and hopefully Jason and Bruce will move beyond there situation as well.
    I think Bruce's acknowledgement here is part of that ongoing process myself.
    Last edited by JasonTodd428; 06-12-2014 at 08:54 AM.
    It was only after Bruce died that I realized what I could do for him....Honor him. Honor what he stood for. Take up the mantle of the Bat. The mantle of my son. Atone for my sins by helping the world. -Thomas Wayne E2 Batman

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  10. #220

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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTodd428 View Post
    No, a one trick pony Jason would have come into Wayne manor with guns blazing while yelling about how things wouldn't have gotten to the point they have in Gotham if Bruce would just let go of his "antiquated morality" and kill criminals instead of letting them live. Bruce acknowledging that Jason has dealt with his issues seems more to me like he's reaffirming his trust in Jason rather than a sign that things are back to square one with them. I think on some level Jason needs to hear that he is trusted by Bruce now in spite of what may have happened in the past. They have only just reconciled and they still have issues to work through but Jason feeling that Bruce trusts him is an important step in the right direction I think and he likely needs to have that trust reaffirmed once in a while.
    I have to disagree here, Lobdell and Pak made a point of Jason being beyond needing any sort of approvation from Bruce (probably Pfeifer too but that aspect didn't played a part on his story) and Bruce's characterization has been one of expressing himself through actions, not words. Having that dependence as the foundations for Jason's role on Eternal is undermining (if subtly) his character development and putting him back on the DCU characterization.

    Considering that Tynion's the one calling the shots on Eternal and that the scrapped Nightwing issue showed how he likes to make characterization work through the relationships with other characters (Dick/Jason for the Outlaws, Bruce/Dick for Tim and Jason) I'm not hopeful for this.

    Still, I admit that I'm overreacting a bit and I'll pass final judgment until I see the first Seeley penned issue.

  11. #221
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    Jason shouldn't NEED squat from Bruce. Bruce had his chance to be a good dad and blew it (yet again)--now Jason is a MAN in his own right. Maybe Dick and Tim need Bruce's approval and reassurance, but Jason dug his way out of a six-foot hole all by himself. He doesn't have to prove anything to Bruce.

  12. #222
    Senior Member Aioros22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    Jason shouldn't NEED squat from Bruce. Bruce had his chance to be a good dad and blew it (yet again)--now Jason is a MAN in his own right. Maybe Dick and Tim need Bruce's approval and reassurance, but Jason dug his way out of a six-foot hole all by himself. He doesn't have to prove anything to Bruce.
    Jason doesn`t need the approval, Loedbell set it up as much right in the first two issues of RATHO. However he also wrote the fallout of DOTF at which I think at this point it`s Bruce who is in need to let Jason knows that he knows.

    So, while he needs no approval, it doesn`t mean it doesn`t feel good to have the only rigtheous paternal figure he`s ever had, issues aside, to say it. Having it spelt out here and there Is a trick of the trade aimed at readers.
    Last edited by Aioros22; 06-12-2014 at 01:41 PM.
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  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    Jason doesn`t need the approval, Loedbell set it up as much right in the first two issues of RATHO. However he also wrote the fallout of DOTF at which I think at this point it`s Bruce who is in need to let Jason knows that he knows.

    So, while he needs no approval, it doesn`t mean it doesn`t feel good to have the only rigtheous paternal figure he`s ever had, issues aside, to say it. Having it spelt out here and there Is a trick of the trade aimed at readers.
    You're right, a little praise is nice, wherever it comes from. But I'd like to see Jason pretty much divorced from the Bat-Line as Dick is now; I think he can fly solo and carry his own book without Batman, Roy, or Kori.

  14. #224

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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    Jason shouldn't NEED squat from Bruce. Bruce had his chance to be a good dad and blew it (yet again)--now Jason is a MAN in his own right. Maybe Dick and Tim need Bruce's approval and reassurance, but Jason dug his way out of a six-foot hole all by himself. He doesn't have to prove anything to Bruce.
    This post was Legend

  15. #225

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    I actually liked this weeks's Outlaws. I wanna see Lobdell write a Jason Todd solo and create him his own supporting cast. Well he kind of already did

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