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  1. #76

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    Chris Yost posted on Twitter yesterday that this month is approximately the 10-year-anniversary since X-23 was introduced in X-men Evolution. Just reading that made me feel old, but at the same time I think it's a great milestone. X-23 could have easily become a blatant Wolverine rip-off (see Jimmy Hudson in Ultimate for just how badly it could have gone). But since her introduction, she has become such a compelling and powerful character. She's very different from Wolverine in a number of ways. Being a teenage girl gives her a certain emotional resonance that Wolverine just doesn't have. And unlike Daken, she has been featured prominently in major X-books like All New X-men and X-Force. I think that says a lot about her appeal and with Wolverine set to die (temporarily) later this year, I think this could be the perfect opportunity for her to step up and take on Wolverine's mantle.
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  2. #77
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post
    Chris Yost posted on Twitter yesterday that this month is approximately the 10-year-anniversary since X-23 was introduced in X-men Evolution. Just reading that made me feel old, but at the same time I think it's a great milestone. X-23 could have easily become a blatant Wolverine rip-off (see Jimmy Hudson in Ultimate for just how badly it could have gone). But since her introduction, she has become such a compelling and powerful character. She's very different from Wolverine in a number of ways. Being a teenage girl gives her a certain emotional resonance that Wolverine just doesn't have. And unlike Daken, she has been featured prominently in major X-books like All New X-men and X-Force. I think that says a lot about her appeal and with Wolverine set to die (temporarily) later this year, I think this could be the perfect opportunity for her to step up and take on Wolverine's mantle.
    While I do share some of the concerns that Laura taking the Wolverine name (however temporary) might cause issues among those who continue to insist on calling her a Wolverine ripoff, I think it could be a very good thing for her both OOC and IC: OOC because it would help generate more attention for her outside the fanbase (I still REALLY want to see her make it into the films. With Jackman getting older and not being able to continue as Wolverine forever, introducing teenaged Laura would be one way to work around it without having to recast Logan, as she can fill some of the same role on the team, while also being her own character and, if an actress who's ACTUALLY 16-17 is cast, she could stick around the franchise for a while. Laura becoming Wolverine, even if only temporarily in the books, might provide the exposure to justify bringing her into the films), and IC because it could play into Laura's efforts to forge her own identity and follow her own path. This, combined with the responsibility she might feel to live up to the name could make for some interesting development as she tries to balance both.

    And now I'm REALLY confused by Yost calling May her anniversary considering, as I mentioned before, NYX #3 (her first appearance in the comics) was published in February 2004. Also, the air date of the Evolution episode in which she debuted is listed here as 8/2/2003. Is there something I'm missing somewhere that has the May date make sense?

  3. #78
    Member Daken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    While I do share some of the concerns that Laura taking the Wolverine name (however temporary) might cause issues among those who continue to insist on calling her a Wolverine ripoff, I think it could be a very good thing for her both OOC and IC: OOC because it would help generate more attention for her outside the fanbase (I still REALLY want to see her make it into the films. With Jackman getting older and not being able to continue as Wolverine forever, introducing teenaged Laura would be one way to work around it without having to recast Logan, as she can fill some of the same role on the team, while also being her own character and, if an actress who's ACTUALLY 16-17 is cast, she could stick around the franchise for a while. Laura becoming Wolverine, even if only temporarily in the books, might provide the exposure to justify bringing her into the films), and IC because it could play into Laura's efforts to forge her own identity and follow her own path. This, combined with the responsibility she might feel to live up to the name could make for some interesting development as she tries to balance both.

    And now I'm REALLY confused by Yost calling May her anniversary considering, as I mentioned before, NYX #3 (her first appearance in the comics) was published in February 2004. Also, the air date of the Evolution episode in which she debuted is listed here as 8/2/2003. Is there something I'm missing somewhere that has the May date make sense?
    Whoops, seems like even the creators are confused about Laura's timeline XD

    Part of me feels a bit worried that Laura taking on the mantle of Wolverine would sorta undo a lot of the work she's put into forging her own identity (as well as yeah, all the people who assume she's just a female wolverine made for sex appeal), but at the same time it would be good to see Laura taking on a larger role in comics. More Laura is always a good thing. It'd also give her life some direction and meaning that she seems to be lacking at the moment. I'd also really like to see more people within the comics acknowledge Laura as her own person *cough* older Scott *cough*

  4. #79
    Junior Member javi150190's Avatar
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    Yost recollection is even crazier
    “I am vulnerable. Starved for kindness, and when I receive it, I lose my mind.”
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  5. #80
    A Gentle Woman Mia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post

    The problem is, we don't even really SEE where and how Laura outgrew him. It all came across as arbitrary and forced (which is why I tend to think it was an editorial mandate as part of severing her relationships with the X-Men prior to shipping her off to Avengers Academy).

    People out grow crushes all the time. And it's highly unlikely that, especially given Laura's taciturnity, that she's going to explain the reasons she no longer likes him. Hellion's behaviour in and of itself should explain why she would no longer be attracted to him. After the passage of time she would have seen him for what he really was and have been turned off by him

    Hellion is one of the more loathesome superheroes in comics. He's immature, self-absorbed and angry. It just boggles the mind how a character so repugnant can have a following. Much less want a high caliber character like X-23 to be with him. Laura deserves much better than a someone as vile and nasty as Keller.

  6. #81
    A Gentle Woman Mia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by javi150190 View Post
    Yes indeed. And like Athena she is known for her wisdom and bravery in battle. It's why she ranks among my top 5 favourite SH's.

  7. #82
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia View Post
    Yes indeed. And like Athena she is known for her wisdom and bravery in battle. It's why she ranks among my top 5 favourite SH's.
    When the writers aren't treating her like just a berserker. Most seem to forget her skill set is primarily black ops/assassination, and instead treat her like bullet sponge soaking up damage until she can get close enough to slice-and-dice. Laura is someone who wouldn't be opposed to using firearms, explosives, or any other weapons that would allow her to make targets dead from a distance, preferably without them knowing about it, (and barring that, would rather take them down one-by-one via stealth) and would only enter direct combat when necessary.

    And as for Hellion:

    Yeah, I can TOTALLY see how a character who would nearly fly themselves into a coma to get a teammate (who, up until that point, he had generally treated with disregard at best if not outright disdain) urgently-needed medical attention that they would otherwise have died without is nothing but a self-absorbed and repugnant individual with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

  8. #83
    Where is my Surge?! Moondoggie's Avatar
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    Well various writers have slowly forgot a lot of interesting things about her like her ability for tactical thinking and the fact she speaks several languages. Liu even had her in Paris without speaking French once and she has been one of the better writers to handle her. It does bug me when she's been written as quite dumb lately just charging into things without a plan like Wolverine and just assume she can just absorb the damage and win out in the end. That's not really how she is, yes she can absorb a lot of punishment but she fights differently to Logan and plans. Not seen any of that for a while.

    Kind of miss the old tactical genius she was



    Even impressed Armor and that's not easy XD.

  9. #84
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondoggie View Post
    Kind of miss the old tactical genius she was
    Not just tactical genius. At least according to her official stats she's supposed to have a genius-level intellect period (yeah, I know, Marvel's power grid has issues. She's got 7s in Strength, Speed and Durability, and a 3 in Energy Projection. Should really be 3 / 2 / 4 / 1, respectively, unless they're including the Uni-Power, but that should have been charted separately. I do agree with her 5 Intelligence and 7 Fighting Skills, though). Rice certainly claimed her intelligence was too high for them to even chart (granted, that was when she was still a child).

    As an aside, that image made me think about how Laura seems to almost always be referred to by her real name. Almost none of the X-Men call her X-23 (at least not unless they're deliberately being rude) and at most just use "X," and even then only rarely. And when was the last time her official codename (Talon) was used at all? I actually think that's kind of appropriate to her personality. Given the way her Facility designation was used to dehumanize her, she strikes me as someone who wouldn't want to be called by anything other than the name her mother gave her as sort of a way to exert control over her identity (that's one of the things I like so much about her character; there's a LOT of subtlety and nuance to her character if you allow yourself to get past that "Oh, she's just a teenage Wolverine with boobs" mentality).

    And another aside: what the hell is keeping Surge from popping out of her top in that first frame? I don't know that there's enough double-sided tape in the whole 616 verse (especially after Emma's used so much of it herself) to keep her contained
    Last edited by Ambaryerno; 05-03-2014 at 04:40 PM.

  10. #85
    Member Daken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post

    As an aside, that image made me think about how Laura seems to almost always be referred to by her real name. Almost none of the X-Men call her X-23 (at least not unless they're deliberately being rude) and at most just use "X," and even then only rarely. And when was the last time her official codename (Talon) was used at all? I actually think that's kind of appropriate to her personality. Given the way her Facility designation was used to dehumanize her, she strikes me as someone who wouldn't want to be called by anything other than the name her mother gave her as sort of a way to exert control over her identity (that's one of the things I like so much about her character; there's a LOT of subtlety and nuance to her character if you allow yourself to get past that "Oh, she's just a teenage Wolverine with boobs" mentality).
    I agree with this so much! I think this is a really good point, and it's one of the things I always like to look at when I see new characters interact with her. It's one of the things I really loved about Avenger's Academy because none of the kids called her X-23. (It's also the reason I hated Arena, because they just turned Laura into a mindless weapon and grrrrrrrrrrrrr ssnikt snikt)

  11. #86
    Where is my Surge?! Moondoggie's Avatar
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    I think the use of her first name is just because of her being a student. The people at the school and her teachers know her on a personal level like other students they refer to them by first names. Really most of them speak on first name basis anyway over using code names. Only during X Force did i see her called "X" quite a lot. The whole Talon thing never really came off KYost kinda tried to get it to stick but everyone seemed to prefer X-23 i guess everyone just got used to that and the name Talon vanished. It's more of an artistic choice than a realistic one when you think about if Laura would even want to use that name after her Mother's dying words were that is not her name and her name is Laura. It's an interesting thing to ponder if they had managed to give her the code name Talon would she have been as successful as she has been. I think X-23 just sounds more mysterious and a bit more menacing than Talon.

    Yeah that's the thing with Laura she has similarities to Wolverine but is a much different character when you scratch below the surface. She's much for easier to empathise with and her back story and how she has developed and moved beyond that has created a lot of depth to her to create her own personality. One of my favorite little things she has developed is her taste for spicy food explaining that growing up she ate tasteless nutrients so she prefers extreme tastes like hot peppers and garlic.

    Oh god flashbacks from the horrors of Avengers Arena. That was some of the worst writing for her i ever saw. In the end i stopped being angry and it just became funny especially any scene where the trigger scent was involved she'd instantly yell "TRIGGER SCENT!" which just seemed hilarious to me considering anytime before when she caught the scent she'd instantly be under it's control and it just seemed really cartoonish. Though for that series a lot of characters had personality transplants to fit in with the story. Yes let's forget all the progress she made in making friends and decisions, let's forget how she decided to work to be a better person than her creators wanted to make her and just make her into a vicious killer that charges around like some unstoppable moron into near death.

  12. #87
    Member Daken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondoggie View Post
    I think the use of her first name is just because of her being a student.
    I agree that people who call her x-23 are probably not doing it deliberately to upset her and do recognise her as a person (except older Cylops during X-force... yeah, I like Cyclops a lot but his decision to turn Laura into his personal hit-woman really pissed me off. SHE'S A CHILD, SCOTT!! X-23 is just her codename.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondoggie View Post
    [B]
    Yeah that's the thing with Laura she has similarities to Wolverine but is a much different character when you scratch below the surface. She's much for easier to empathise with and her back story and how she has developed and moved beyond that has created a lot of depth to her to create her own personality. One of my favorite little things she has developed is her taste for spicy food explaining that growing up she ate tasteless nutrients so she prefers extreme tastes like hot peppers and garlic.
    I really loved that detail too. Oh man, I want an X-23 solo series again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondoggie View Post
    [B]
    Oh god flashbacks from the horrors of Avengers Arena. That was some of the worst writing for her i ever saw. In the end i stopped being angry and it just became funny especially any scene where the trigger scent was involved she'd instantly yell "TRIGGER SCENT!" which just seemed hilarious to me considering anytime before when she caught the scent she'd instantly be under it's control and it just seemed really cartoonish. Though for that series a lot of characters had personality transplants to fit in with the story. Yes let's forget all the progress she made in making friends and decisions, let's forget how she decided to work to be a better person than her creators wanted to make her and just make her into a vicious killer that charges around like some unstoppable moron into near death.
    Yeah, I hated the writing of her in Arena (and just Arena over-all, it felt like an attempt to cash in on the Hunger Games popularity without any real motivation for it - like Arcade isn't an important character, and the X-Men and Avengers were shown to have almost no response to the fact that a bunch of kids just went up and missing and then were forced to kill each other, wtf?? I understand plenty of people liked it, and I can even sorta see why, but I did not enjoy it, particular because, like you said, it really messed up the emotional growth that Laura had just been going through.

    Still, bad as that writing was, I almost prefer it to ANXM - which sucks, because I really like the concept of it - Laura hanging out with the O5 - its got so much potential, but it just feels like Bendis literally hasn't read anything with Laura in and is just kinda writing her as fairly cliche teenage girl. Really looking forward to Yost writing here, because I like the art of ANXM, and I really would like to see Laura hanging out with mutants.

  13. #88
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondoggie View Post
    Yeah that's the thing with Laura she has similarities to Wolverine but is a much different character when you scratch below the surface. She's much for easier to empathise with and her back story and how she has developed and moved beyond that has created a lot of depth to her to create her own personality. One of my favorite little things she has developed is her taste for spicy food explaining that growing up she ate tasteless nutrients so she prefers extreme tastes like hot peppers and garlic.
    That's such a great little touch to see whenever it comes up (I've played with it myself a bit in New Class. The second "minisode" has her humiliating Hellion and Rockslide by eating a Trinidad Moruga Scorpion pepper whole while the other two were too chicken to do it themselves), and despite being such a minor detail it still says so much about her character.

    I haven't read Arena yet, but what I did hear about the use of the trigger scent in that series sounds ridiculous. First, not only was Arcade somehow able to fabricate it himself (I could MAYBE see him reverse-engineering it if he bought or stole a sample from that mystery woman who appeared in the Paris arc of her solo -- I'd REALLY like to learn more about that character, btw. Hope that thread doesn't get dropped) but it also sounds like it was making her attack EVERYTHING around her, not just the person that was marked with it.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondoggie View Post
    Oh god flashbacks from the horrors of Avengers Arena. That was some of the worst writing for her i ever saw. In the end i stopped being angry and it just became funny especially any scene where the trigger scent was involved she'd instantly yell "TRIGGER SCENT!" which just seemed hilarious to me considering anytime before when she caught the scent she'd instantly be under it's control and it just seemed really cartoonish. Though for that series a lot of characters had personality transplants to fit in with the story. Yes let's forget all the progress she made in making friends and decisions, let's forget how she decided to work to be a better person than her creators wanted to make her and just make her into a vicious killer that charges around like some unstoppable moron into near death.
    The only thing I was okay with about Laura and Arena was the explanation that she instinctively calculates how to kill everyone in the room, and she can't turn it off. It lined up with her back story pretty well.

  15. #90
    Junior Member javi150190's Avatar
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