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  1. #46
    Spectacularly Neurotic Sharkerbob's Avatar
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    Discussions have been made regarding rule adjustments. Here are some adjustments I would like to propose.

    1) No minimum point/item limits for characters. If I want a 1-pointer with no items, I think it should be doable.

    2) I don't expect anyone to go for this, but as a thought, consider a lower starting amount of points, with a higher amount gained between matches. Something like starting with 80, or even just 60 points, but gaining 5 or 6 points after each match. This would allow for a more rapidly adjusting tactics, and give more people a build to work towards, instead of getting most of it done to begin with, and then struggling to figure out what to spend the next extra points on.

    3) Echoing Duskman, I think every single item should only be able to go to/be usable by a single character, regardless of canon. The exception would be a team riding a vehicle or giant robot or using a structure as a base, although someone needs to be the pilot/keeper of that item. And, obviously, a character with healing items can still use those healing items on teammates, but someone would need to be the specific carrier of those items. I believe this is the fairest solution to the issue of item-sharing, instead of trying to compromise over loophole exploitation.

    4) Item Characters - There are some items or characters that could be used one way or another. Mana Spirits, for example, are traditionally used as spell-casting mediums in the Mana games, but they also have their own personalities and agency. Effectively, the characters are summoning the spirit, who then casts the spell under their own power. The Spirits could be used as characters in their own right, I would imagine. Likewise, I still like the idea of "creating" a character using something like the All-Spark or the Human Human Fruit. That should be countable as a character in it's own right. Creating a self-thinking, initiative-capable Transformer and binding them to a "pilot" character as an item doesn't make much sense, and forces people to use up points on a character they probably don't want.

    5) Minimum team size reduced at least to four, if not three. I can barely figure out enough things for four characters to do, much less five or more. Obviously, Maximum points per character should be capped accordingly for a lesser team size to keep things from getting too power spamming. Perhaps keep the current Maximum Cap as it is, but give people a lesser amount of points to start (not drastically less like I suggested in 2, just not over a 100). A suitable maximum will force people to spread points out regardless.

    6) Ditch the Original Items. All of them. I'm usually a big supporter of Original content, but as Nik says, the idea is to take things from pre-established fiction and make interesting combos with them. Customizing original stuff for the League takes away those limitations and thus, inhibits creative tactical drafting. I'm not saying delete all the OI enteries, but make them non-draft-able this time around. And that would include "Semi Original" or CBR RPG/Poster Persona junk, so there's no argument over what qualifies.

    7) I know this will also not go over well, butt I also like Duskman's suggestion of making every item multi-purchasable. One purchase per team, of course, but I would like to see what new creative tactics would occur if people were forced to contend with the idea that other people could just grab the same items as them. Would we end up with a bunch of identical teams, or would people's individual strategies and desire to stand out cause them to make a point to pick stuff no one else has picked? Also, it would mean the Draft wouldn't even be an issue.

    8) No maximum team size. Some people complain that having 100 one-pointers on the field makes things too confusing and strategies too long. Yet, there are characters who can replicate themselves 100 or more times in a match, on top of having whatever extra powers they have, for significantly less cost, effectively creating a team with over 100 characters. How is that any less confusing or long winded of a strategy? Consider that a team with 100 Aunt Mays is still going to lose to a single Wolverine, unless Wolverine really borks up his strategy or takes a dive.

  2. #47
    E-Liter3K Scoped Headshot The MunchKING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkerbob View Post
    Discussions have been made regarding rule adjustments. Here are some adjustments I would like to propose.

    1) No minimum point/item limits for characters. If I want a 1-pointer with no items, I think it should be doable.

    5) Minimum team size reduced at least to four, if not three. I can barely figure out enough things for four characters to do, much less five or more. Obviously, Maximum points per character should be capped accordingly for a lesser team size to keep things from getting too power spamming. Perhaps keep the current Maximum Cap as it is, but give people a lesser amount of points to start (not drastically less like I suggested in 2, just not over a 100). A suitable maximum will force people to spread points out regardless.
    These two don't really work together. If you want to have 1 dude who's a 1 with no gear, then you need to have no caps on the other guys, or you'll hit the caps before you run out of points.

    7) I know this will also not go over well, butt I also like Duskman's suggestion of making every item multi-purchasable. One purchase per team, of course, but I would like to see what new creative tactics would occur if people were forced to contend with the idea that other people could just grab the same items as them. Would we end up with a bunch of identical teams
    That was pretty much how it worked in League 1-3. Somebody found THE THING TO BUY, and then everybody bought a copy of it and used it the same way.

    Exogenes, the Subtle Knife, whether it was underpriced or overpowerful, all the teams were the same by the end.

    8) No maximum team size. Some people complain that having 100 one-pointers on the field makes things too confusing and strategies too long. Yet, there are characters who can replicate themselves 100 or more times in a match, on top of having whatever extra powers they have, for significantly less cost, effectively creating a team with over 100 characters. How is that any less confusing or long winded of a strategy? Consider that a team with 100 Aunt Mays is still going to lose to a single Wolverine, unless Wolverine really borks up his strategy or takes a dive.
    Can Wolverine run out of energy?

    100 Aunt Mays may not do it, but Aragon is a 1 too. And he would make Wolverine work for his inevitable win.
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  3. #48
    Spectacularly Neurotic Sharkerbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    These two don't really work together. If you want to have 1 dude who's a 1 with no gear, then you need to have no caps on the other guys, or you'll hit the caps before you run out of points.
    Just depends on the caps. The Maximum cap is already at 45. Two characters at 45, one at 9, and one at 1 makes 100 points.


    That was pretty much how it worked in League 1-3. Somebody found THE THING TO BUY, and then everybody bought a copy of it and used it the same way.

    Exogenes, the Subtle Knife, whether it was underpriced or overpowerful, all the teams were the same by the end.
    Then that's on them for making a boring League. :P

    Also, haven't most of those sorts of items been weeded out by now?

    On the one hand, everyone being the same means ostensibly, everyone's equal, everyone draws, no one wants that, so I would think variety would be a necessity.

    On the other hand, there's something to be said for every player having a different strategy, and that being the determining factor more than anything.

    Not too serious suggestion, though.


    Can Wolverine run out of energy?
    Probably not nearly as quick as others. The guy goes up against Hulk for the long haul.

    100 Aunt Mays may not do it, but Aragon is a 1 too. And he would make Wolverine work for his inevitable win.
    Then he probably shouldn't be a 1.

    Maybe Spider-Man is a better example, but the point is, a hundred 1 pointers isn't going to be able to do much against even a mid-tier super, even before you give them items.

    Anyway, not a serious suggestion, I suppose.

  4. #49
    E-Liter3K Scoped Headshot The MunchKING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkerbob View Post
    Then that's on them for making a boring League. :P
    When it's "Buy this item or you Lose", everybody tends to buy that item. And/or lose.

    Also, haven't most of those sorts of items been weeded out by now?
    Not so much as just kicked upstairs.

    On the one hand, everyone being the same means ostensibly, everyone's equal, everyone draws, no one wants that, so I would think variety would be a necessity.

    On the other hand, there's something to be said for every player having a different strategy, and that being the determining factor more than anything.
    Meh I found it annoying because I didn't have feats for Motherboxes, Exo-Genes or the Subtle Knife, so I didn't know about them or how to stop them even after my team got stomped a dozen times.
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  5. #50
    Queen Empress of Earth Tami's Avatar
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    This is a good discussion. it's helping me figure out ways I might make the League better.
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  6. #51
    Spectacularly Neurotic Sharkerbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    When it's "Buy this item or you Lose", everybody tends to buy that item. And/or lose.
    The League already has that problem. Probably not nearly as bad as before, but still.


    Not so much as just kicked upstairs.
    I suppose.


    Meh I found it annoying because I didn't have feats for Motherboxes, Exo-Genes or the Subtle Knife, so I didn't know about them or how to stop them even after my team got stomped a dozen times.
    Probably a of lot of people have that issue. I'm sure most players don't know most of the stuff listed.

  7. #52
    E-Liter3K Scoped Headshot The MunchKING's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkerbob View Post
    The League already has that problem. Probably not nearly as bad as before, but still.
    A lot less so with all the OIs duplicating all the powerful gear.



    I suppose.
    Rat Talisman (or now day the T-Girl powerset) is a good example.

    ridiculously powerful, but managed by making it an 8 and limiting only one person to getting it.




    Probably a of lot of people have that issue. I'm sure most players don't know most of the stuff listed.

    Yes, but spreading out the load makes everyone demand feats for a lot of the stuff because you can't just be like "everybody KNOWS a thing can do THIS" because most people have a thing.

    That said, that people don't pay attention when I demand feats or when I provide them for why my team is better is an entirely unrelated issue.
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  8. #53
    Queen Empress of Earth Tami's Avatar
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    I'm working on the OI issue and on a few other issues.
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  9. #54
    Queen Empress of Earth Tami's Avatar
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    Posted the rules in the OP. Made some changes, but I am open to questions or discussions of them. If there is anything you have questions on, please ask soon so I can fix it to make it clearer.
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  10. #55
    Spectacularly Neurotic Sharkerbob's Avatar
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    Looks alright.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    Not so much as just kicked upstairs.
    The Subtle Knife was arguably increased in price far too much.

    The only reason it became as popular as it did was in response to the Exogenes, because it gave an easy way to bypass durability.

  12. #57

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    Rules look alright to me.

    The OI limit/removal/changes are all thats left if any are to be made.

  13. #58
    Queen Empress of Earth Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Drizzle View Post
    Rules look alright to me.

    The OI limit/removal/changes are all thats left if any are to be made.
    That and the issue of Multi-picks. I have an idea on how to deal with it. Just need time to test it/work it out.
    Last edited by Tami; 08-10-2015 at 07:54 AM.
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  14. #59
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Since the updated rules actually make my build more efficient and more legal, I am completely fine with these changes.

    Team is almost complete, just fine tuning and a little of specific strategy counters and I'm good to go.

  15. #60
    Spectacularly Neurotic Sharkerbob's Avatar
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    Well, OI on a separate list so it can be easily included or excluded would make it easier.

    As for Multi-picks, I think it's fine the way its been, with "Of Choice" items and 1-pointers being multi-pick-able.

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