View Poll Results: Who is your favourite 616 Marvel LGBT character?

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  • ANOLE [Victor Borkowski]

    17 2.94%
  • BLING! [Roxanne ‘Roxy’ Washington]

    10 1.73%
  • CULLEN BLOODSTONE

    16 2.77%
  • DAKEN AKIHIRO

    32 5.54%
  • HULKLING [Theodore ‘Teddy’ Altman]

    30 5.19%
  • KARMA [Xi’an Coy Mahn]

    31 5.36%
  • KAROLINA DEAN

    32 5.54%
  • LOKI LAUFEYSON, God of Mischief

    52 9.00%
  • MOONDRAGON [Heather Douglas]

    32 5.54%
  • MYSTIQUE [Raven Darkholme]

    83 14.36%
  • NORTHSTAR [Jean-Paul Beaubier]

    43 7.44%
  • PRODIGY [David Alleyne]

    16 2.77%
  • RICTOR [Julio Esteban Ricter]

    27 4.67%
  • SHATTERSTAR [Gaveedra-7]

    37 6.40%
  • WICCAN [William ‘Billy’ Kaplan], the Demiurge

    120 20.76%
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  1. #10936
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfMagnetism View Post
    I don't think it was. I didn't read his comic but I remember people mentioning an issue where his landlord told Hercules that he wasn't allowed to have girls or "boys" in his apartment. Some people interpreted that as referencing Hercules being bisexual but if the writer specifically used the word "boy" then that complicates things, because then you can say it's a joke about ancient Greeks' attitude towards pederasty.
    Not exactly. The landlord said he wasn't allowed to have girls up there. Tiresias chimed in and commented "no boys either; let's not be bigoted". It was not a joke about under-age sex--it was a nod to the fact Herc has slept with men as well. The reason the word "boy" specifically was used was because the word "girl" was used...and because the person who said "boys" is also an immortal, so grown men would technically be "boys" from his perspective anyway.

    No one on panel has come out and directly said "Herc is bisexual", but the in-story hints are still there and have not been invalidated. Hopefully at some point someone will take it further and make it explicitly clear in-story.

    The last HERCULES series also had a dual-gendered supporting character, Tiresias, who in Greek mythology was born male but was turned into a woman by the gods and now is both. So that was an unexpected extra dose of LGBT content for the series.

  2. #10937
    Mighty Member MasterOfMagnetism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    Not exactly. The landlord said he wasn't allowed to have girls up there. Tiresias chimed in and commented "no boys either; let's not be bigoted". It was not a joke about under-age sex--it was a nod to the fact Herc has slept with men as well. The reason the word "boy" specifically was used was because the word "girl" was used...and because the person who said "boys" is also an immortal, so grown men would technically be "boys" from his perspective anyway.

    No one on panel has come out and directly said "Herc is bisexual", but the in-story hints are still there and have not been invalidated. Hopefully at some point someone will take it further and make it explicitly clear in-story.

    The last HERCULES series also had a dual-gendered supporting character, Tiresias, who in Greek mythology was born male but was turned into a woman by the gods and now is both. So that was an unexpected extra dose of LGBT content for the series.
    Thanks for the clarification.

  3. #10938
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfMagnetism View Post
    Thanks for the clarification.
    My pleasure.

    I keep hoping that Mark Waid will do something to acknowledge Herc's bisexuality in AVENGERS, but so far Hercules really hasn't had a lot to do in that series apart from a single issue where he was the only one immune to Kang's attempt to wipe the team from history. But maybe he'll have better luck in the "Legacy" run. And he's got an appearance in ICEMAN coming up, which would be another good spot to see some acknowledgement of it. Fingers crossed....

  4. #10939
    Incredible Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    I wasn't counting Joey since he wasn't technically a "superhero". He was a SHIELD agent who had powers--there's a difference (although, of course, there are characters who are both agents and superheroes). I didn't really think Joey was poorly handled--just under-used, and that is apparently more due to actor availability rather than anything on the part of the writers. Either way, it is unfortunate since he had potential.
    I believe the moment Joey became a part of S.H.I.E.L.D., and specially a part of the Secret Warriors, he did fall under the superhero category. I mean, super-powered people using their abilities to do good and fight evil is pretty superhero-ish to me. And I meant poorly handled precisely in how little he was used. I don't know what the actor's up to these days, but Clark Gregg teased the return of the Secret Warriors, so who knows, maybe we could still see more of Joey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    I keep hoping that Mark Waid will do something to acknowledge Herc's bisexuality in AVENGERS, but so far Hercules really hasn't had a lot to do in that series apart from a single issue where he was the only one immune to Kang's attempt to wipe the team from history. But maybe he'll have better luck in the "Legacy" run. And he's got an appearance in ICEMAN coming up, which would be another good spot to see some acknowledgement of it. Fingers crossed....
    Iceman IS the most likely place where Herc's sexuality would be acknowledged for sure. I'm really hoping Sina Grace will do something with that.

  5. #10940
    Amazing Member zinderel's Avatar
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    Looks like Loki is getting a new love interest! Of course, it's a woman, so...womp, womp.

    Can we stop calling Loki bi yet? As far as I recall, he has never referred to HIMSELF that way, only the writer of his brief solo (in which no bisexuality was ever even remotely explored) said so. A brief flirtation in the last issue of Young Avengers does not a bisexual make, and clearly marvel has no interest in actually exploring the sexuality fluidity/bisexuality angle anymore...

    DOCTOR STRANGE #381
    DONNY CATES (W) • GABRIEL HERNANDEZ WALTA (A)
    Cover by MIKE DEL MUNDO
    Lenticular Homage (LH) Variant Cover by MIKE DEODATO JR.
    Legacy Headshot Variant Cover by MIKE MCKONE
    Variant Cover by GABRIEL HERNANDEZ WALTA
    TRADING CARD VARIANT COVER BY JOHN TYLER CHRISTOPHER
    1965 T-SHIRT VARIANT COVER BY STEVE DITKO
    LOKI: SORCERER SUPREME Part 1
    Evil is everywhere and the world needs the Sorcerer Supreme more than ever. But is the world ready for LOKI: SORCERER SUPREME? He has the cloak, the spells — he’s even got Zelma Stanton as his assistant (and possibly more?) — but is this the chance he needed to become a hero, or is the god of lies dangerously close to unlimited power? And what happened to STEPHEN STRANGE? PLUS: Includes 3 bonus MARVEL PRIMER PAGES!
    32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99
    "God once spoke through burning bushes. Now, He seems to prefer speaking through flaming a**holes." - Uncredited Internet Genius

  6. #10941
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    Looks like Loki is getting a new love interest! Of course, it's a woman, so...womp, womp.

    Can we stop calling Loki bi yet? As far as I recall, he has never referred to HIMSELF that way, only the writer of his brief solo (in which no bisexuality was ever even remotely explored) said so. A brief flirtation in the last issue of Young Avengers does not a bisexual make, and clearly marvel has no interest in actually exploring the sexuality fluidity/bisexuality angle anymore...

    DOCTOR STRANGE #381
    DONNY CATES (W) • GABRIEL HERNANDEZ WALTA (A)
    Cover by MIKE DEL MUNDO
    Lenticular Homage (LH) Variant Cover by MIKE DEODATO JR.
    Legacy Headshot Variant Cover by MIKE MCKONE
    Variant Cover by GABRIEL HERNANDEZ WALTA
    TRADING CARD VARIANT COVER BY JOHN TYLER CHRISTOPHER
    1965 T-SHIRT VARIANT COVER BY STEVE DITKO
    LOKI: SORCERER SUPREME Part 1
    Evil is everywhere and the world needs the Sorcerer Supreme more than ever. But is the world ready for LOKI: SORCERER SUPREME? He has the cloak, the spells — he’s even got Zelma Stanton as his assistant (and possibly more?) — but is this the chance he needed to become a hero, or is the god of lies dangerously close to unlimited power? And what happened to STEPHEN STRANGE? PLUS: Includes 3 bonus MARVEL PRIMER PAGES!
    32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99
    I honestly get the frustration, but... really? No, we won't stop calling him bi, and yeah, the scene at Young Avengers does count. Even if it never gets explored again, he would still be bi. I get if you don't consider him representation, I pretty much don't either, but it's not right to say that he's straight because he has a female love interest. The idea that bisexual people who have more relationships with certain gender are actually just straight or gay it's pretty harmful, even if in this case it's more about Marvel not wanting to explore Loki's sexuality than actual in-story reasons.

  7. #10942
    Amazing Member zinderel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I honestly get the frustration, but... really? No, we won't stop calling him bi, and yeah, the scene at Young Avengers does count. Even if it never gets explored again, he would still be bi. I get if you don't consider him representation, I pretty much don't either, but it's not right to say that he's straight because he has a female love interest. The idea that bisexual people who have more relationships with certain gender are actually just straight or gay it's pretty harmful, even if in this case it's more about Marvel not wanting to explore Loki's sexuality than actual in-story reasons.
    I'm not saying that Loki's isn't bi because he has a new female love interest, I am saying that I question whether he is actually bi, or if we were sold a pile of lies by Marvel, since we have literally seen nothing BUT female love interests since he was sold to the public as a bisexual.

    To be fair, it's not that he has a female love interest that bothers me. Of course bisexual people can have hetero-normative relationships! But when a character is pushed as 'bisexual representation' and then has nothing but hetero-normative relationships, it is galling. In large part because, IRL, hetero-normativity is the easy default for the majority of bisexuals. According to Pew, over 80% of self-identified bisexual people are in hetero-normative relationships, while only 9% were in homosexual pairings. A HUGE component to that, by the admission of those participating in the poll, is how easy society makes hetero-normativity, how 'appealing' and 'normal' it looks, how much easier it is for family and community to accept a bisexual who 'acts normal' than it is to accept one who has a relationship with a same-gender partner. So when an ostensibly bisexual character from a family of gods (who is based on a 'real life' god who had romantic relationships with a HORSE and I think a wolf - NOT that we need to see them go THERE in comics... - without any of his family batting an eye) and who, in universe, has finally found acceptance by Odin in terms of his sexual fluidity, is portrayed in mass market fiction as ONLY engaging in hetero-normative relationships, it reinforces this perception that hetero is 'normal' and homo is 'wierd' and it contributes to the real world culture of bi-erasure that favors hetero-normativity above all.

    One jokey aside in the last issue of Young Avengers isn't enough. Until he is shown ACTUALLY engaging in something outside of hetero-normative behaviour on more than one, throwaway occasion that never panned out into anything, I just do not buy that he is...well...bi, and I dislike the push towards a hetero-normative 'default' by the writers, who want credit for TELLING us that Loki is bisexual, but put not one iota of work into actually SHOWING us that he is bisexual.
    Last edited by zinderel; Yesterday at 06:43 PM.
    "God once spoke through burning bushes. Now, He seems to prefer speaking through flaming a**holes." - Uncredited Internet Genius

  8. #10943
    Astonishing Member legion_quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    I'm not saying that Loki's isn't bi because he has a new female love interest, I am saying that I question whether he is actually bi, or if we were sold a pile of lies by Marvel, since we have literally seen nothing BUT female love interests since he was sold to the public as a bisexual.

    To be fair, it's not that he has a female love interest that bothers me. Of course bisexual people can have hetero-normative relationships! But when a character is pushed as 'bisexual representation' and then has nothing but hetero-normative relationships, it is galling. In large part because, IRL, hetero-normativity is the easy default for the majority of bisexuals. According to Pew, over 80% of self-identified bisexual people are in hetero-normative relationships, while only 9% were in homosexual pairings. A HUGE component to that, by the admission of those participating in the poll, is how easy society makes hetero-normativity, how 'appealing' and 'normal' it looks, how much easier it is for family and community to accept a bisexual who 'acts normal' than it is to accept one who has a relationship with a same-gender partner. So when an ostensibly bisexual character from a family of gods (who is based on a 'real life' god who had romantic relationships with a HORSE and I think a wolf - NOT that we need to see them go THERE in comics... - without any of his family batting an eye) and who, in universe, has finally found acceptance by Odin in terms of his sexual fluidity, is portrayed in mass market fiction as ONLY engaging in hetero-normative relationships, it reinforces this perception that hetero is 'normal' and homo is 'wierd' and it contributes to the real world culture of bi-erasure that favors hetero-normativity above all.

    One jokey aside in the last issue of Young Avengers isn't enough. Until he is shown ACTUALLY engaging in something outside of hetero-normative behaviour on more than one, throwaway occasion that never panned out into anything, I just do not buy that he is...well...bi, and I dislike the push towards a hetero-normative 'default' by the writers, who want credit for TELLING us that Loki is bisexual, but put not one iota of work into actually SHOWING us that he is bisexual.
    You just put it better than I could at this time of the morning
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  9. #10944

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    Keep in mind that this little jaunt with Strange is just that, temporary, for Loki. Also the blurbs are written by the interns and not the writers. They did that with Verity too, and she outright stated to Valeria that she and Loki were not interested in one another. My guess, Zelma is going to be an assistant to him, flirt, sure at most, but full on love interest, no. And there are reasons for that. If they try to stick him with anyone you still have the situation that, well, he's technically still married to Sigyn from way back and Marvel never broke that off. Hell they had him cheat on her several times, and still had her with him, and while she hasn't been around, I'm pretty sure that if they do have him have a relationship they have to address that first and foremost.

    Also, this is Loki, he's not exactly Tony or Thor when it comes to dating. He's more interested in fixing himself then, you know, falling for someone. We've been talking about that in the Loki thread, and how his situation is a bit like Jamie from GoT. Honestly, my guess, Zelma is probably going to be another Verity figure. Someone who will help him out, but probably not much more then being a friend to him and helping him on the Journey that he has to take. After all, this is still ultimately Strange's book, and they're not about to change that factor for too long given that he has a movie out and will play a role in the new Thor and in Infinity war, etc.

    Also Also, Possibly more, doesn't have to equate a love interest, there could be something else going on here, and given that we've seen that with Loki in other stories, I'm of the opinion that it's going to be more along the line of a familiar or a grounding device for him with his magic, over someone to be in love with. Remember even if he's being good, it's still Loki, he's got an ego and Zelma doesn't strike me as the sort that he'd be with for a long period romantically anyway.

    Add to that, it looks more likely that Loki will be helping her learn more about magic then him romancing her as she's strange's apprentice and has a new magic form to herself. So there's probably more to this then the whole simple intro talks about.

    As for male love interests for Loki, it's the same problem as female. He's got an ego, he's a god, and there's the whole issue with him being well, a know it all at times. He's a sneak, a jerk, and someone who's too clever for his own good. And you have the same issue as above, you have to address his former marriage in some form (a marriage which happened because he pretty much committed murder and then took on the guys form) before you even get to a romance because of who he is and how he's treated his former partners. None of which ended up in a happy situation.
    Last edited by Darkspellmaster; Today at 01:50 AM.

  10. #10945
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I already said in the Loki thread that i would have preferred a guy. I definitely agree that simply saying he's bi one time and a few vague hints isn't enough, they have to have him with a guy in some kind of romantic way at least once for it to really truly count. But to be fair, about the talk about him 'only being in hetero' relationships, that's not actually true. He hasn't been in ANY romantic relationships since... well, I don't even know. His last relationship was a long time before the Young Avengers reveal, and he hasn't had anything beyond a bit of flirting since then. He's made a few advances, but nothing that went anywhere. Leah was kinda going somewhere, but never really got there, and that was Kid Loki, technically a different character. and Verity was clearly stated to be a platonic friend. It just hasn't been a priority either for him or the writers, because he has been going through so much, so pairing him up with anyone would have not been able to lead anywhere, because his life was in such a state of chaos and change. He needed some degree of stability before anything could really happen.

    I do think A relationship can work, male or female. If he can make friends with people like Verity and Squirrel Girl, it's not that big a leap to have him find some romance outside the villain club, as long as he can convince them he's trying to change.

    As for how serious things will be with Zelma, we have no idea. it could be nothing more than flirting, it could be serious, it could only last until his arc in Strange's book is over, it could continue beyond that, who knows. We only have one line of a solicit to judge. But it doesn't necessarily mean he's spoken for forever, in any case, so there is still hope for the future.

    and the writers actually DO frequently write the solicits. Maybe not all the time, but some writers do. I dunno if Cates is one of them, though.
    Last edited by Raye; Today at 02:50 AM.

  11. #10946
    Astonishing Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    Keep in mind that this little jaunt with Strange is just that, temporary, for Loki. Also the blurbs are written by the interns and not the writers.
    Actually this isn't necessarily true. The writer of the book will often write the solicitation if they wish to. Often it is too far in the future for anyone other than the writer or editor to do it. Spencer is on record as writing many of his own for example, and even writing outright lies to avoid spoilers.

  12. #10947
    Incredible Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    I'm not saying that Loki's isn't bi because he has a new female love interest, I am saying that I question whether he is actually bi, or if we were sold a pile of lies by Marvel, since we have literally seen nothing BUT female love interests since he was sold to the public as a bisexual.

    To be fair, it's not that he has a female love interest that bothers me. Of course bisexual people can have hetero-normative relationships! But when a character is pushed as 'bisexual representation' and then has nothing but hetero-normative relationships, it is galling. In large part because, IRL, hetero-normativity is the easy default for the majority of bisexuals. According to Pew, over 80% of self-identified bisexual people are in hetero-normative relationships, while only 9% were in homosexual pairings. A HUGE component to that, by the admission of those participating in the poll, is how easy society makes hetero-normativity, how 'appealing' and 'normal' it looks, how much easier it is for family and community to accept a bisexual who 'acts normal' than it is to accept one who has a relationship with a same-gender partner. So when an ostensibly bisexual character from a family of gods (who is based on a 'real life' god who had romantic relationships with a HORSE and I think a wolf - NOT that we need to see them go THERE in comics... - without any of his family batting an eye) and who, in universe, has finally found acceptance by Odin in terms of his sexual fluidity, is portrayed in mass market fiction as ONLY engaging in hetero-normative relationships, it reinforces this perception that hetero is 'normal' and homo is 'wierd' and it contributes to the real world culture of bi-erasure that favors hetero-normativity above all.

    One jokey aside in the last issue of Young Avengers isn't enough. Until he is shown ACTUALLY engaging in something outside of hetero-normative behaviour on more than one, throwaway occasion that never panned out into anything, I just do not buy that he is...well...bi, and I dislike the push towards a hetero-normative 'default' by the writers, who want credit for TELLING us that Loki is bisexual, but put not one iota of work into actually SHOWING us that he is bisexual.
    I understand and agree with most of what you're saying, but I dislike the idea that we should ban Loki as a representation because we don't like the way he is represented. To stop embracing LGBTQ characters as LGBTQ will not improve anything, trust me. If anything, we're giving LGBTQphobes power so that they can justify queer erasure, because if the LGBTQ community itself start to decline characters the right to identify as LGBTQ, then it's just so much easier for people outside of our community to do the same. There are already a shit load of people who don't accept Loki, Hercules, Deadpool, etc, as queer characters. There are people who would prefer if those character never EVER act on their CANON queer sexuality. There are people who would probably celebrate if those characters where retconned as cis-het for good. I personally see that as even more motivation for us to refer to those character as LGBTQ. It's important that our voices are heard and writers/producers/editors KNOW that we CARE about those characters being LGBTQ. Because if we just throw our hands up in the air and say ''I'm done, this characters is not really LGBTQ for me anymore'', then we're just essentially letting them win. If no one had protested when Alonso claimed that Hercules was nothing but straight, he would've never acknowledged that he was misinformed and THERE IS room for Hercules to be bi. THAT is important. And I know, things are still not ideal with Hercules, but Marvel's EIC now KNOWS that this character is an important LGBTQ representation for people, so you can bet he'll think twice whenever the subject of Herc's sexuality comes up again. If someone like Sina Grace pitches editorial an idea for the Iceman book that directly involves Hercules being bi, they would probably be a lot more open to let it happen because THEY KNOW that that character IS embraced, supported and regarded as an LGBTQ representation. There is power in acknowledging LGBTQ existence, and this is something we should NEVER lose.

  13. #10948
    Christopher! Fokken's Avatar
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    If Iceman's solo DOES come to an unexpectedly swift close in the coming year--- I hope that Sina just throws in a scene of he and Hercules closing a door as an "Yup, dey gon' bone" finale/send off. ha ha.

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