Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 104
  1. #1
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,957

    Default Seeley, King Enter the DCU's Espionage World in "Grayson"

    Tim Seeley and Tom King turn the one-time Nightwing into a gun-wielding spy in "Grayson," which co-stars Helena Bertinelli - but don't call her Huntress!


    Full article here.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Trevel8182's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Earth-8182
    Posts
    906

    Default

    What an original and different direction to take this former sidekick(cough Winter Soldier)

    I'm glad there moving Helena in a new direction instead of having just live in Waynes shadow or vice/versa, I just hope they bring back all of her unique character traits and relative back story with a good amount of tweaks. Basically, don't Wally West her and change every aspect about her character except for her name and one minute detail but change everything around that detail in Wally's case he's still related to Iris but now there entire relationship is different and it's hard to tell that there related.

  3. #3

    Default

    Knowing they said the last issue of Nightwing was rushed gives me more faith in the actual series.

  4. #4
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    San Jose, CA USA
    Posts
    547

    Default

    Why even use the name "Helena Bertinelli" if she's not going to be anything like Helena Bertinelli? Why not call her "Sally Smith"???
    SJNeal
    Veteran Member
    Aug 2009
    7,869

  5. #5
    BANNED
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    759

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevel8182 View Post
    What an original and different direction to take this former sidekick(cough Winter Soldier)

    I'm glad there moving Helena in a new direction instead of having just live in Waynes shadow or vice/versa, I just hope they bring back all of her unique character traits and relative back story with a good amount of tweaks. Basically, don't Wally West her and change every aspect about her character except for her name and one minute detail but change everything around that detail in Wally's case he's still related to Iris but now there entire relationship is different and it's hard to tell that there related.
    It's okay, Bucky is a poor-man's Robin who has to resort to a phony 'grimdark' gimmick to get any attention. Dick hasn't. Also, Spyral>Shield.

    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    Why even use the name "Helena Bertinelli" if she's not going to be anything like Helena Bertinelli? Why not call her "Sally Smith"???
    Because her name is Helena Bertinelli, a mob boss daughter who had an unspecified vigilante career and 'died' in the process, only to be taken in by Spyral due to the great job she was doing wiping out the bad guys?

    With that logic, why not call all versions of Huntress "Helena Wayne"? Bertinelli is a retcon.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Claude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    413

    Default

    Well, they talk a good game!

    I like the idea of "no inner monologue" - not just because it's such a different approach these days, but because there's a level of writerly thought behind it which is encouraging.


    "Still talking to Batman, still friends with Batman, but argueing over the mission" is a nice detail too.

  7. #7
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    San Jose, CA USA
    Posts
    547

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverseReverseFlash View Post
    Because her name is Helena Bertinelli, a mob boss daughter who had an unspecified vigilante career and 'died' in the process, only to be taken in by Spyral due to the great job she was doing wiping out the bad guys?

    With that logic, why not call all versions of Huntress "Helena Wayne"? Bertinelli is a retcon.
    Well that would just be dumb!
    SJNeal
    Veteran Member
    Aug 2009
    7,869

  8. #8
    Moderator / Bounty Hunter ABH-1979's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,151

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RKitch View Post
    Knowing they said the last issue of Nightwing was rushed gives me more faith in the actual series.
    Yeah, same here.

    I thought that was a real good interview, and addressed the burning concerns of "Why a gun?" and "Is Spyral good or bad?".
    Detective Comics - Batman and Robin - Batman - Grayson


  9. #9
    Junior Member yfnjman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    12

    Default

    i didn't know what to make of this book/move. just didn't seem...right?! i don't know. after reading the interview, i'm a bit more interested/optimistic. i'll give it a shot (as a card carrying comic book collector, aren't we all morally obligated to at least pick up issue 1) for a few issues. see where it goes.

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2

    Default

    I'm going to reserve judgement until I read the book. I would like for Dick Grayson to finally take his place among the top tier of DC heroes, but that has been promised before.

    Just don't screw it up, guys. This is Dick Grayson we're talking about. His fandom runs deep.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    763

    Default

    The mere implication that Bruce and Dick are absolute, quantifiable best friends sells me. Seeley's clearly on the same wavelength I am - even the way he had Dick say that Bruce taking him in made him feel like a "son" again ... well then, he grew up. Their relationship has changed - Bruce evolved from a father figure to a brother. They trained the next crop of Robins together. But moreover, they aren't friends like the Justice League, who are "work friends" - of which Clark is maybe the one guy who because he's Superman, and he's freaking friends with everybody, (challenge enough just to be "liked" and "respected" by Batman, but we are talking about Diana, Barry, Arthur Curry here, Victor is a great kid, and Hal ... well, Hal's got his respect at least, if not his affection).

    They're Bat-BFF.

    Beyond that, though, I like the honesty. Yeah, we could tell Nightwing # 30 was a bit rushed. I think they even mentioned they had to hammer it out fast before it came out. If that's them rushing, I'm eager to see what they can do with the right amount of time.

    And I'm half-expecting that Futures End Russia issue to straight-up address his Roma heritage.

    I'm stoked on Helena with a sun-tan. I'm less stoked on the continuity hijinx that'll inevitably occur, but if they don't get in the way of the Spyral story, it's no biggie for me. After all, the implication was that Helena Wayne WAS posing as the pre-52 Huntress. They didn't actually develop that through-line, because, you know ... retcon hell.

    (That does get me pretty damn curious for Gail's upcoming Batgirl issues, though, which will have Barbara, Dinah and Helena together again ... just not the same Helena (or is it??).)
    Last edited by K. Jones; 05-30-2014 at 09:03 AM.
    Retro315 no more. Anonymity is so 2005.
    retrowarbird.blogspot.com

  12. #12
    BANNED
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    759

    Default

    Here are some odd points that this story is raising with me.

    Helena is "Matron 1" according to Seeley's concept art. This means she's the Matron that betrayed the Hood and serves as a shadow figure to a lot of the agents. If that isn't the case, then it seems that "Matrons" are various higher-ups that Kathy uses as dummy figureheads to cover her own identity in Spyral. There is a great chance that most of Spyral's agents aren't even aware of each other, nor are they fully aware of who is in control or how high up it goes. In that sense, Helena may believe she is in charge and may not even be aware that Kathy exists or who she is beyond being "Headmistress". Keep in mind that agents The Hood and El Gaucho are totally unaware of Batman's secret identity and are also unaware that Kathy Kane is even the Headmistress. El Gaucho still thought she was dead.

    This also brings up a weird point about continuity. Matron was a shadow figure before and after the reboot. If she's revealed to be Helena Bertinelli, then who was the Matron before Flashpoint? Should we assume it was always Helena and her inclusion in Batman Incorporated was a spy mission, before Flashpoint 'killed' her earlier in her career?

    I think Helena Bertinelli's history as the Huntress is coming back. I'm pretty sure Spyral used mindtricks to wipe her out of history with everyone who knew her and Helena Wayne flew under their radar, being an Earth 2 castaway.

    If Spyral consists mostly of 'dead' vigilantes, you can expect more DCU characters to pop up that don't have a logical fit in the main DCU. The way Morrison used it to hide and keep Kathy in continuity, they will probably do this with several other characters. I wouldn't be surprised to see Jean-Paul Valley or others show up as agents. In this way, DC can keep them 'in continuity', but due to mind-manipulation, everyone forgot who they were and they are removed from the larger storytelling.

  13. #13
    Moderator / Bounty Hunter ABH-1979's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,151

    Default

    I'm not sure what's more intriguing; the interview with Seeley and King, or these last two posts by K. Jones and ReverseReverseFlash. Lots of great stuff to think about.

    Regarding the gun use: King/Seeley specifically referenced Batman's Year Two (among other Bat+Gun moments), and in that story, Bruce used a gun (THE gun) without ever killing anyone. They explained that Dick doesn't want to use a gun, but might have to, here and there, so I hope, being the former circus performer that Dick is, that he'll become some sort of trick-shot. It's been a while since I read Batman: Year 2, but that was pretty much all Batman did with the gun -- shooting objects to cause 'X' to happen, and not actually shooting anyone.
    Detective Comics - Batman and Robin - Batman - Grayson


  14. #14

    Default

    These guys certainly know how to give an interview. Seeley, in particular, should have quieted some fears that these guys don't get Dick Grayson and are just going to write an out of character spy story

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,076

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverseReverseFlash View Post
    Here are some odd points that this story is raising with me.

    Helena is "Matron 1" according to Seeley's concept art. This means she's the Matron that betrayed the Hood and serves as a shadow figure to a lot of the agents. If that isn't the case, then it seems that "Matrons" are various higher-ups that Kathy uses as dummy figureheads to cover her own identity in Spyral. There is a great chance that most of Spyral's agents aren't even aware of each other, nor are they fully aware of who is in control or how high up it goes. In that sense, Helena may believe she is in charge and may not even be aware that Kathy exists or who she is beyond being "Headmistress". Keep in mind that agents The Hood and El Gaucho are totally unaware of Batman's secret identity and are also unaware that Kathy Kane is even the Headmistress. El Gaucho still thought she was dead.

    This also brings up a weird point about continuity. Matron was a shadow figure before and after the reboot. If she's revealed to be Helena Bertinelli, then who was the Matron before Flashpoint? Should we assume it was always Helena and her inclusion in Batman Incorporated was a spy mission, before Flashpoint 'killed' her earlier in her career?

    I think Helena Bertinelli's history as the Huntress is coming back. I'm pretty sure Spyral used mindtricks to wipe her out of history with everyone who knew her and Helena Wayne flew under their radar, being an Earth 2 castaway.

    If Spyral consists mostly of 'dead' vigilantes, you can expect more DCU characters to pop up that don't have a logical fit in the main DCU. The way Morrison used it to hide and keep Kathy in continuity, they will probably do this with several other characters. I wouldn't be surprised to see Jean-Paul Valley or others show up as agents. In this way, DC can keep them 'in continuity', but due to mind-manipulation, everyone forgot who they were and they are removed from the larger storytelling.
    That's a good point. Cassandra Cain: Agent of SPYRAL. Make it happen DC. Oh and Lady Blackhawk as well.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •