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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member
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    Default Why didn't Marvel push Monica Rambeau as Captain Marvel

    When I first started reading the Avengers, Monica Rambeau led the team as Captain Marvel and had a pretty high profile.

    She also had a pretty awesome power set.

    I'm not saying that Carol Danvers should be pushed aside but I'm just curious as to why exactly didn't push Monica Rambeau more as one of Marvel's premiere female characters.

  2. #2
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    Carol has a small but dedicated readership?

    I guess the same could be said of many female characters who may have experienced popularity at one time, then later fell by the wayside.

  3. #3
    Last of my kind ZNOP's Avatar
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    Perhaps, the writers are building towards a "Rouge-ish" type relationship between Monica and Carol.
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  4. #4
    Veteran Member FanboyStranger's Avatar
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    There was a perception among creators that Monica was Roger Stern's character, and that he should be the one who stewarded the character. You have to remember that this was during the period when the creator rights' issues were starting to boil over. It was not an official policy, but a sign of respect for Roger.

  5. #5
    Geek Strong Style Smoov-E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FanboyStranger View Post
    There was a perception among creators that Monica was Roger Stern's character, and that he should be the one who stewarded the character. You have to remember that this was during the period when the creator rights' issues were starting to boil over. It was not an official policy, but a sign of respect for Roger.

    There was also a perception that no one could top what Ellis did with her in Nextwave which many writers backed up until DeConnick and Ewing

  6. #6
    Veteran Member FanboyStranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoov-E View Post
    There was also a perception that no one could top what Ellis did with her in Nextwave which many writers backed up until DeConnick and Ewing
    Yeah, but Nextwave was twenty years later. In the '80s and '90s, it was very much tied into the creators' rights movement, and a solidarity by creators to avoid characters who had been defined by a particular creator. Monica wasn't alone in that-- there was Elektra, Beta Ray Bill, etc. Eventually, they'd all get used by other creators, but for a time, there was an unofficial effort to stay away from them. (The position on Elektra, as I understand it, was quasi-official by Marvel until it was clear that Miller wasn't going to come back a third time to work on the character.)

    The other problem was that Marvel has to print a Captain Marvel comic ever few years or they'd lose the trademark, which DC would snap up in a minute for their Captain Marvel. That's why Genis was created and given a comic in the early '90s by Fabian Nicieza. So you get a revolving door on the character with the title.

    Monica is still my favorite.
    Last edited by FanboyStranger; 07-28-2015 at 02:48 PM.

  7. #7
    Fantastic Member edpower's Avatar
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    Monica was really one of the true great Marvel characters of the 80's, and one of the best Avengers of all time. What destroyed her was Walt Simonson. Don't get me wrong...I love Walt Simonson, but every creator makes some questionable decisions and making one of the strongest black, females characters of all time incompetent and then powerless was not a great decision.

    Since then she's kind of floundered.

    I like Carol as Captain Marvel. She deserves it. Oddly, a lot of the same things were done to her as were done to Monica before Kurt Busiek reminded everyone of how great she is. Hopefully someone will do the same for Monica. I was really hoping Bendis would use her.

    Also, I hate these bland placeholder names they keep giving her. If she can't be Captain Marvel I think they should call her Marvel Woman. That seems to have the magnitude the character deserves.
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  8. #8
    Poor Doomed Thing Panic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edpower View Post
    Monica was really one of the true great Marvel characters of the 80's, and one of the best Avengers of all time. What destroyed her was Walt Simonson. Don't get me wrong...I love Walt Simonson, but every creator makes some questionable decisions and making one of the strongest black, females characters of all time incompetent and then powerless was not a great decision.
    That wasn't Simonson's decision, it was editor Mark Grunewald's. He came up with the idea that Monica would fail at leading the Avengers, necessitating Captain America (Gruenwald's favourite character) coming back to sort things out and take the lead. When Stern objected to the idea, Gruenwald took him off the book and had him replaced by Simonson, who carried out Gruenwald's plot. Or at least, that's what I've heard happened.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    That wasn't Simonson's decision, it was editor Mark Grunewald's. He came up with the idea that Monica would fail at leading the Avengers, necessitating Captain America (Gruenwald's favourite character) coming back to sort things out and take the lead. When Stern objected to the idea, Gruenwald took him off the book and had him replaced by Simonson, who carried out Gruenwald's plot. Or at least, that's what I've heard happened.
    Beat me to it. I'd heard the same story.

  10. #10
    Fantastic Member Fordel's Avatar
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    I'm always amazed (and frustrated) by stories like that. Where a characters direction is thrown off course dramatically because of some kind of creator/editorial disagreement. Nature of the beast I suppose.


    As to the original question, I think it was just a matter of timing more then anything. Five years earlier or later and maybe things are different.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    That wasn't Simonson's decision, it was editor Mark Grunewald's. He came up with the idea that Monica would fail at leading the Avengers, necessitating Captain America (Gruenwald's favourite character) coming back to sort things out and take the lead. When Stern objected to the idea, Gruenwald took him off the book and had him replaced by Simonson, who carried out Gruenwald's plot. Or at least, that's what I've heard happened.
    How ironic that Stern WROTE some of Gruenwald's character John Walker, the US Agent, during his time as Captain America in the mini series, Captain America Corps years later.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZNOP View Post
    Perhaps, the writers are building towards a "Rouge-ish" type relationship between Monica and Carol.
    They sure are taking their sweet time about it. Perhaps we'll find out when "Ultimates" comes out.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by edpower View Post
    Monica was really one of the true great Marvel characters of the 80's, and one of the best Avengers of all time. What destroyed her was Walt Simonson. Don't get me wrong...I love Walt Simonson, but every creator makes some questionable decisions and making one of the strongest black, females characters of all time incompetent and then powerless was not a great decision.

    Since then she's kind of floundered.

    I like Carol as Captain Marvel. She deserves it. Oddly, a lot of the same things were done to her as were done to Monica before Kurt Busiek reminded everyone of how great she is. Hopefully someone will do the same for Monica. I was really hoping Bendis would use her.

    Also, I hate these bland placeholder names they keep giving her. If she can't be Captain Marvel I think they should call her Marvel Woman. That seems to have the magnitude the character deserves.
    So who do we blame for the Doctor Druid debacle?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by edpower View Post
    Monica was really one of the true great Marvel characters of the 80's, and one of the best Avengers of all time. What destroyed her was Walt Simonson. Don't get me wrong...I love Walt Simonson, but every creator makes some questionable decisions and making one of the strongest black, females characters of all time incompetent and then powerless was not a great decision.

    Since then she's kind of floundered.

    I like Carol as Captain Marvel. She deserves it. Oddly, a lot of the same things were done to her as were done to Monica before Kurt Busiek reminded everyone of how great she is. Hopefully someone will do the same for Monica. I was really hoping Bendis would use her.

    Also, I hate these bland placeholder names they keep giving her. If she can't be Captain Marvel I think they should call her Marvel Woman. That seems to have the magnitude the character deserves.

    Marvel Woman? Isn't teen Jean going to get that title someday?

  15. #15
    Last of my kind ZNOP's Avatar
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    What give you that impression?
    Time travel is optional.
    "Off panel", is a laughable defense.
    If it wasn't printed... It didn't happen

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