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  1. #46
    Focused Totality Psycwave's Avatar
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    Evolution was great. TAS always gets a one up because of the nostalgia factor but Evo is everything.

  2. #47
    Veteran Member Beezzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chia Head View Post
    I somewhat agree. But I don't hate it either, more like frustrated.

    And for my part I'll add some things. I really didn't care for their depictions in general except that I found the re-imagining of Toad and the depiction of Mystique and Quicksilver the only good thing. But the X-Men themselves really left a lot to be desired for me. I used to like the show ok and was able to enjoy it before they started applying it to the comics somewhat. Kitty was an annoying valley girl caricature and Kurt was just annoying period after a while and Scott, Jean and Storm were a bit on the flat side and lacking some character motive/depth. I found Kurt as just the clown uninspiring. Whats more it seems that outlook has bled over to comics from fans of the cartoon where he is just the "fun" character when there is so much more to him and thats not something you transfer from a 16 yr. old to someone in their mid to late 20's in the comics. I prefer WatX as the all time X-cartoon despite the eye roll inducing Forge depiction. If I were to view Evolution as an original cartoon without having read the comics it would be fine. If I'm in the mood I can still enjoy it as a seperate universe.
    Some good points.

    In addition: Both the 90s show and Evo are nostalgia fests now, so everyone see both through rose tinted glasses. The usual X reader rules applies here - whichever era you started watching or reading the X-Men in will most likely always be your favourite - there's always gonna be exceptions - but it's mainly true.

    Simple facts - TAS most likely has a bigger fanbase, since it was the first X cartoon, was created to sell comics and therefore stuck closer to those comics. This let it deal with more mature themes, then seen on most cartoons of the era, but were far more common in comics.

    Evo has a smaller dedicated loyal fanbase, but many don't like the Bayville school, teenager aspects of the show or what was done to Kurt, Kitty and to a lesser extent Scott, to make them more 'appealing' to younger viewers.

    Both shows got better as time went on - TAS lost a lot of the silly cartoon tropes (for example, Jubes personality slightly changes from kid sidekick, to her more world wary comic version) and Evo started to move away from Bayville High and focused more on things like Magneto and fighting bigger villians. I'd say TAS found its feet much faster than Evo did.

    Lastly in a few years people will start to complain that Evo didn't age well either just like TAS - it happens with most shows and some fans. I ignore it, most things are a product of the eras they are created in - very few things are truly timeless - so levelling it against anything is an unfair argument. Star Trek fans do the same thing when comparing shows and it drive me nuts.
    Last edited by Beezzi; 05-24-2015 at 01:25 AM.
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  3. #48
    Junior Member Fordel's Avatar
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    The animation and audio is comparable to any modern cartoon, with the only real issue being it's made for old standard definition instead of HD. The only issue with Evolution and 'aging' is it starts to be a period piece in a weird way. Where the kids are buying CD's and using cell phones as actual phones and not texting devices. It's really a product of it's time and kind of an odd time capsule for the early 2000's.

    Which was fifteen years ago. Kids who were born when that show came out are now themselves in high-school. We're all old

  4. #49
    Scheme Hunter sagiravi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beezzi View Post
    (Also, likable Scott has never been my fave Slim - I prefer mine repressed, moping over Jean, dry and getting in people's faces... )
    GET OUT
    The things u listed are some of my least favorite things about Cyke, a lot of media often portray Cyke in a negative light, Evolution showed a Cyke at his best who was confident and compassionate yet still repressed just not to the point of insanity as 616 Scott, Evo Scott (and a lot of other Evo characters) is the best version of the character ever and one of the main reasons I'm excited and have very high hopes for Tyke in ANXM is because of his resemblance to Evo Cyke, so I see a lot of potential in Tyke's story in ANXM, now the only other thing I'd like to see fixed is Tyke's annoying obsession of Jeen, I hope to rather see their friendship explored (like in Evo, where their relationship was fun and felt more realistic as compared to the comics ) which could improve their chemistry and lead to a more realistic and mature relationship later on.

  5. #50
    Protect the weak. Darth Phoenix's Avatar
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    You do not live at a private school to go to a public one.

    Hated Spyke just give us Marrow

    It felt like the pretty kids were Xmen but ugly mutated kids were more Brotherhood this is like popularity at High school but aginst the real X message.

    Making X characters baddies. Plus the villains never kill so not much of a threat.

    So I did not Hate it but it had points that strayed for me and that lowered my enjoyment.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Phoenix View Post
    You do not live at a private school to go to a public one.

    Hated Spyke just give us Marrow

    It felt like the pretty kids were Xmen but ugly mutated kids were more Brotherhood this is like popularity at High school but aginst the real X message.

    Making X characters baddies. Plus the villains never kill so not much of a threat.

    So I did not Hate it but it had points that strayed for me and that lowered my enjoyment.
    Only Blob and Toad could be considered ugly. The Brotherhood was still composed mostly of attractive people (hell Lance and Piedro had a ludicrous amount of fan girls).

    How many cartoon villains kill again?

  7. #52

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    I don't know that there's a lot of hate for X-men Evolution. Why would anyone get that impression? Most of the X-men fans I talked too liked it. It offered a different, but fun take on X-men. It introduced some interesting dynamics, expecially with characters like Tabitha, Mystique, Nightcrawler, and the Maximoff twins. It was also a success by most measured. It lasted five seasons, which is pretty solid for any cartoon these days. The only criticism I could think of is that people don't like it because it's not the 90s X-men cartoon. I get why some would want the spirit of that cartoon continued, but that wasn't the intent of this show. It did something different and it worked.
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  8. #53
    I am Storm's fiance RLAAMJR.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dales View Post
    I dont get it, it is my favorite xmen cartoon ever. for those who dont like xmen evolution please explain why?
    X-men TAS is the best x-men series. I don't hate X-men Evolution but I don't like the fact that Storm and Wolverine are adults while the rest are teens.
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  9. #54
    Veteran Member Beezzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagiravi View Post
    GET OUT
    The things u listed are some of my least favorite things about Cyke, a lot of media often portray Cyke in a negative light, Evolution showed a Cyke at his best who was confident and compassionate yet still repressed just not to the point of insanity as 616 Scott, Evo Scott (and a lot of other Evo characters) is the best version of the character ever and one of the main reasons I'm excited and have very high hopes for Tyke in ANXM is because of his resemblance to Evo Cyke, so I see a lot of potential in Tyke's story in ANXM, now the only other thing I'd like to see fixed is Tyke's annoying obsession of Jeen, I hope to rather see their friendship explored (like in Evo, where their relationship was fun and felt more realistic as compared to the comics ) which could improve their chemistry and lead to a more realistic and mature relationship later on.
    Nope, likeable Scott's just weird...

    I've always seen him as the Leo of the group. His not suppose to be likable - his got the world on his shoulders and his friends lives are on the line. Ever single decision he makes effects their lives. Its life or death. And family is important to him - he's an orphan after all. That does stuff to a person mentally. Evo and to a lesser extent Bendis is trying to turn him into a second rate Peter Parker...wonder why.

    A more 'repressed' Cyke doesn't mean he doesn't get to openly display compassion or have that wonderfully dry sense of humour - it's just means when we do see glimpses of that, they are far more special and mean so much more. It's Scott Summers stepping out of his comfort zone. Big mighty villains might not intimidate him, but people and feelings kinda do.

    There's an great example of it in a GenX issue, dealing with Yana's death and Jubilee, but for the life of me I can't remember what the issue number is. Or when Cyke explains to Cable what it felt like to give him up as a baby(required reading for all Scott fans) or in Uncanny #308 when Jean and him think back over their lives together and finally get engaged (required reading all X-Men fans). Those are his truly 'likable' moments.

    I'm partial to later CC and early Lobdell's portrayals of Cyke. Which is what TAS was based on to a large extent. We see Scott have his "leadership" moments and his 'singing' Christmas carols of key moments.
    Last edited by Beezzi; 05-24-2015 at 09:26 AM.
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  10. #55

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    I didn't like Evolution. Let me count the ways:

    Spyke. Completely a silly character. He screams of tokenism. Instead of just having Storm be a teen, or Bishop or Sunspot if they really wanted a guy, they made him up. And the haircut and the skater vibe just were completely off putting. If they want someone for young black guys to relate to, that was a pretty piss poor idea. He was a crap X-Man and then he ran away to the Morlocks when an evil energy drink-. I can't even finish that sentence. His familial connection to Storm doesn't even make sense . How does she have a sister when she was orphaned as a child? How is that sister American and Storm grew up in Africa?

    Storm. Sidelined as mammy, driving the kids around in a mini van.

    Wolverine. Sidelined as weird uncle. Wears a helmet to ride his bike, even though he has an adamantium skull and healing factor.

    Goth Rogue. Oh my goddess, no!

    Lance. Um, Avalanche is Greek. And his name is Dominikos Ioannis Petrakis.

    The rich/poor dichotomy. The X-Men live in the mansion. The Brotherhood live in a dilapidated house. Heavy handed economic moralism there.

    Valley girl Kitty. Kitty Pryde was actually a child prodigy in the comics, from Chicago suburbs. That voice....

    The art. I can not stand the art direction/aesthetic. It's like dumbed-down Disney. That it was vaguely continued in WandtheXM only compounded the situation.

    Those are very specific things. Overall I didn't like the kiddie storylines/characterizations. Cheerleader Jean and her flatline football jock bf. Scott's sports car. Arcade thinks the Danger Room is a video game. Principal Kelly. etc etc. TAS was such a great cartoon in that is didn't dumb things down and yet it was still a huge success for kids.

    Basically, the only episodes I enjoyed from this series were the last 4, but their mute, white 'Poccy can't hold a candle to TAS's 'Poccy, with his delicious voice and rich soliloquies.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  11. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franchise408 View Post
    I haven't watched it, but I also have little desire too because the premise is such a departure from the source material that it feels like I'm not even watching X-Men anymore. I don't really have any interest in it.

    I also wonder why people say things like "Oh I like it, it's such a new take on the source material", but then turn and freak out when the movies make even the slightest departure from the source.
    Why do you avoid it because it's such a departure, yet rave for the movies, which are also a new take on the source material?
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  12. #57

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    I liked evolution and will list the good and the bad.

    The premise:

    I get that fox's x-men was a hard act to follow and didn't mind the concept as many as most, but the premise is kind of annoying.

    the good.

    1. Lance: Avalanche was an awesome character that should have been the new baseline for the character. A well meaning troublemaker that makes bad descisions, and has a bit of a temper.
    (aka zuko before his time). Throw in a bit more of his greek heritage and go to town.
    2. Boom Boom: Tabitha was awesome and it's about time we had a girl who wasn't just a femme fatale on the villains side that was a peer.
    3. Protraying the brotherhood as relatively descent people with bad decisions making skills. I loved the scene where blob, boom boom and toad "got this" when it came to that alien.
    4. I loved the team of acolytes that magneto had (colossus, gambit, pyro, quicksilver, and sabertooth), and think I would have preferred to follow that team over the x-men and brotherhood. Hell add a teen spiral to this team (freed by magneto from the mojoverse, but altered so she can't go to school, despite being a genius), would add some serious angst.
    5. Mystique: always awesome
    6. Beast was no George Buza, but he was pretty good the way he was reinterpreted

    the bad
    1. Spike: To show how bad the character is, compared it to Static whom was out during the time. Replacing him with Bedlam would have been a way better character choice.
    2. Storm: She should have been a teen. Storm was such a gianormous ham and diva that was missed hard in this series. Hell I would argue this was the series that started the side lining of the character. \
    If you need an older mutant to act as school marm, pick destiny (to add yet another layer to raven), moira (technically not a mutant, but it works), amelia vought, or emma frost
    3. Rogue: The Goth part I didn't mind. However, you reduced her from the most powerful member of the team to meh. The only reason she's not as bad as storm and spike is she was still a descent character, but it also started her own sidelining.
    4. Kitty pryde: Does not do WOO ever. that stupid hat is a direct contradiction to everything kitty is, the good nerdy jewish girl with a snarky temper.
    5. Jubilee: she was a cameo character that was written out. honestly, they could have done so much more with it. the only reason I wouldn't push more on this is boom boom kinda stole her niche.
    6. x-23: The character has improved a lot since her initial appearance, but honestly, I despise the concept of female remakes of male characters on principle. It's the main reason why She hulk isn't being seriously considered for the movies, despite being a fantastic character in all other ways.
    I love the fact that most female metas in the x-men franchise aren't male reskins and I balked as soon as I saw it.
    7. Magnetos voice actor felt seriously off and it really nerfed a ton of the scenes he was in.
    8. I have to agree with the bio-shock economic rationalization that occured on the show.

    more nitpiks then actual bad issues.
    9. Nightcrawler was a tad goofy, but far from my biggest beef.
    10. surfer dude havoc.

    I think I would have loved having M. in there as well, even if you had to nerf her somewhat. Her and classic rogue would have been a hoot, to say nothing of any other interactions.

    but yeah

    descent, but far from the best series done with the x- on it.

  13. #58
    Veteran Member Beezzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    I didn't like Evolution. Let me count the ways:

    Spyke. Completely a silly character. He screams of tokenism. Instead of just having Storm be a teen, or Bishop or Sunspot if they really wanted a guy, they made him up. And the haircut and the skater vibe just were completely off putting. If they want someone for young black guys to relate to, that was a pretty piss poor idea. He was a crap X-Man and then he ran away to the Morlocks when an evil energy drink-. I can't even finish that sentence. His familial connection to Storm doesn't even make sense . How does she have a sister when she was orphaned as a child? How is that sister American and Storm grew up in Africa?

    Storm. Sidelined as mammy, driving the kids around in a mini van.

    Wolverine. Sidelined as weird uncle. Wears a helmet to ride his bike, even though he has an adamantium skull and healing factor.

    Goth Rogue. Oh my goddess, no!

    Lance. Um, Avalanche is Greek. And his name is Dominikos Ioannis Petrakis.

    The rich/poor dichotomy. The X-Men live in the mansion. The Brotherhood live in a dilapidated house. Heavy handed economic moralism there.

    Valley girl Kitty. Kitty Pryde was actually a child prodigy in the comics, from Chicago suburbs. That voice....

    The art. I can not stand the art direction/aesthetic. It's like dumbed-down Disney. That it was vaguely continued in WandtheXM only compounded the situation.

    Those are very specific things. Overall I didn't like the kiddie storylines/characterizations. Cheerleader Jean and her flatline football jock bf. Scott's sports car. Arcade thinks the Danger Room is a video game. Principal Kelly. etc etc. TAS was such a great cartoon in that is didn't dumb things down and yet it was still a huge success for kids.

    Basically, the only episodes I enjoyed from this series were the last 4, but their mute, white 'Poccy can't hold a candle to TAS's 'Poccy, with his delicious voice and rich soliloquies.
    Quote Originally Posted by shades of eternity View Post
    I liked evolution and will list the good and the bad.

    The premise:

    I get that fox's x-men was a hard act to follow and didn't mind the concept as many as most, but the premise is kind of annoying.

    the good.

    1. Lance: Avalanche was an awesome character that should have been the new baseline for the character. A well meaning troublemaker that makes bad descisions, and has a bit of a temper.
    (aka zuko before his time). Throw in a bit more of his greek heritage and go to town.
    2. Boom Boom: Tabitha was awesome and it's about time we had a girl who wasn't just a femme fatale on the villains side that was a peer.
    3. Protraying the brotherhood as relatively descent people with bad decisions making skills. I loved the scene where blob, boom boom and toad "got this" when it came to that alien.
    4. I loved the team of acolytes that magneto had (colossus, gambit, pyro, quicksilver, and sabertooth), and think I would have preferred to follow that team over the x-men and brotherhood. Hell add a teen spiral to this team (freed by magneto from the mojoverse, but altered so she can't go to school, despite being a genius), would add some serious angst.
    5. Mystique: always awesome
    6. Beast was no George Buza, but he was pretty good the way he was reinterpreted

    the bad
    1. Spike: To show how bad the character is, compared it to Static whom was out during the time. Replacing him with Bedlam would have been a way better character choice.
    2. Storm: She should have been a teen. Storm was such a gianormous ham and diva that was missed hard in this series. Hell I would argue this was the series that started the side lining of the character. \
    If you need an older mutant to act as school marm, pick destiny (to add yet another layer to raven), moira (technically not a mutant, but it works), amelia vought, or emma frost
    3. Rogue: The Goth part I didn't mind. However, you reduced her from the most powerful member of the team to meh. The only reason she's not as bad as storm and spike is she was still a descent character, but it also started her own sidelining.
    4. Kitty pryde: Does not do WOO ever. that stupid hat is a direct contradiction to everything kitty is, the good nerdy jewish girl with a snarky temper.
    5. Jubilee: she was a cameo character that was written out. honestly, they could have done so much more with it. the only reason I wouldn't push more on this is boom boom kinda stole her niche.
    6. x-23: The character has improved a lot since her initial appearance, but honestly, I despise the concept of female remakes of male characters on principle. It's the main reason why She hulk isn't being seriously considered for the movies, despite being a fantastic character in all other ways.
    I love the fact that most female metas in the x-men franchise aren't male reskins and I balked as soon as I saw it.
    7. Magnetos voice actor felt seriously off and it really nerfed a ton of the scenes he was in.
    8. I have to agree with the bio-shock economic rationalization that occured on the show.

    more nitpiks then actual bad issues.
    9. Nightcrawler was a tad goofy, but far from my biggest beef.
    10. surfer dude havoc.

    I think I would have loved having M. in there as well, even if you had to nerf her somewhat. Her and classic rogue would have been a hoot, to say nothing of any other interactions.

    but yeah

    descent, but far from the best series done with the x- on it.
    Good points from both.
    Wolvie and Jubes - one of the greatest partnerships in comic history.

  14. #59
    Protect the weak. Darth Phoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Only Blob and Toad could be considered ugly. The Brotherhood was still composed mostly of attractive people (hell Lance and Piedro had a ludicrous amount of fan girls).

    How many cartoon villains kill again?
    In the old Xmen Morph sorta died,Saberthoth was a killer.
    In Wolverine n Xmen the intro credits the MRD was trying to round up mutant kids so it had Scary villians from the go.
    Last edited by Darth Phoenix; 05-24-2015 at 06:32 PM.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neko View Post
    You nailed it for me. I wasn't interested in a Beverly Hills 90120 version of Xmen. I really didn't like the school aspect and I don't like that aspect in the books either.

    I don't hate it, just not my thing. Having said that, I did like the different takes on some of the characters.
    I agree too. It was so watered down like a to expensive drink at the hottest club.

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