View Poll Results: Who is your favorite woman of the Superverse?

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67. You may not vote on this poll
  • Lara

    0 0%
  • Martha Kent

    0 0%
  • Lana Lang

    3 4.48%
  • Lois Lane

    22 32.84%
  • Supergirl

    16 23.88%
  • Power Girl

    13 19.40%
  • Cat Grant

    0 0%
  • Maggie Sawyer

    2 2.99%
  • Lucy Lane

    0 0%
  • Faora/Ursa

    1 1.49%
  • Maxima

    9 13.43%
  • Livewire

    0 0%
  • Mercy Graves

    0 0%
  • Natasha Irons

    0 0%
  • Other (please explain)

    1 1.49%
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  1. #31
    Senior Member Blacksun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidstandout View Post
    you're seriously trying to defend sailor moon for being just a skimpy as a dc book? do you see how much leg is visible under with those short skirts? or better yet the transformation into said uniform where they're essentially naked? as a guy who has seen the show because of his older sister locking down the tv while i was waiting for gundam wing to come on, i can vouch for how much fanservice that show had. to cite that show as an example of better female portrayals is ludicrous.

    here's plenty of examples of the fanservice i saw at 12 http://anime-fanservice.org/coppermi...php?album=1284
    anything will have fanservice if i think hard about it. I remember some people claiming fanservice of Brave female director because there was bare male butts on the movie. Majority of the audience is girls, the amount of the so called fan service is not even comparable to many comics of the same period of when the show aired. I remember watching tenchi muyo and seeing female characters completely nude, that was fanservice.
    only here one of the most feminist shows is called sexist...I can't even believe this is happening

  2. #32
    Senior Member kidstandout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    anything will have fanservice if i think hard about it. I remember some people claiming fanservice of Brave female director because there was bare male butts on the movie. Majority of the audience is girls, the amount of the so called fan service is not even comparable to many comics of the same period of when the show aired. I remember watching tenchi muyo and seeing female characters completely nude, that was fanservice.
    only here one of the most feminist shows is called sexist...I can't even believe this is happening
    what is "so called" about panty shots, short skirts and transformation where they are naked?

    so it's okay only when the majority of the audience is female?
    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco View Post
    Yeah because the only thing a suffering womanizer needs is a "good woman" that understands him. And every woman needs a man to teach her how to control her "womanish" emotions.
    bmww in a nutshell

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by kidstandout View Post
    what is "so called" about panty shots, short skirts and transformation where they are naked?

    so it's okay only when the majority of the audience is female?
    In Japan nudity is viewed differently than in America. Nudity is family friendly as long as it is non sexual, violence is taboo and adult oriented. So it is a different situation then in america.
    And Sailor Moon is marketed to women thus the purpose of the nudity is not sexual unlike like in American comics where it is.

  4. #34
    Senior Member kidstandout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangleo61288 View Post
    In Japan nudity is viewed differently than in America. Nudity is family friendly as long as it is non sexual, violence is taboo and adult oriented. So it is a different situation then in america.
    And Sailor Moon is marketed to women thus the purpose of the nudity is not sexual unlike like in American comics where it is.
    irrelevant, we're talking about the views of an american woman

    so it's only sexual when it's marketed to men? so explain to me how naked woman in media marketed to lesbians aren't sexual.
    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco View Post
    Yeah because the only thing a suffering womanizer needs is a "good woman" that understands him. And every woman needs a man to teach her how to control her "womanish" emotions.
    bmww in a nutshell

  5. #35
    Is The Best Monk The Red Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    you know nothing about sailor moon. there's generations of girls that love the anime, because is fun, have female empowerment and also a lesbian characters.


    their costumes are based on the outfit japanes school girl use. It's not a sexualized costume, is much better than many costume women use in superhero comics.
    http://bitchmagazine.org/post/what-i...om-sailor-moon
    http://feminist-armchair-regime.blog...nd-gender.html

    it's not default in comics women use fewer clothes than men? it's really obvious. there was many rapes cases in the past Ms marvel, Sue Dibny, black canary. also women in refrigerators
    How cute. You're trying to use the "You don't know anything!" defense.

    Sorry, sunshine, but I know a hell of a lot about Sailor Moon than you think. For example, the lesbian characters you mentioned? Only lesbian in the Japanese version. In the western version, the censors went out of their way to omit that stuff. And even then, the lesbian stuff in Sailor Moon is about as "feminist" as Even Cowgirls Get The Blues.

    And so what that generations of girls "love the anime"? Generations of girls also love Twilight and Lauren K. Hamilton's wangsty crap. Doesn't excuse either of their flaws.

    And really? Less sexualized? Mmm, yeah, no. Especially if you know anything about Japanese culture, and what they like to fetishize.

    And, no, it's not default. Jean Grey wears more clothes than Namor The Sub-Mariner, for example.

    Also, Black Canary was not raped. That's a common misconception. Even Mike Grell said as much when questioned on it. And while people love to bitch about Sue and Ms. Marvel, they can't seem to be able to name much more, unless it's in a grim'n'gritty comic set in a crapsack world.

    And Women In Refrigerators is not a concept exclusive to comics. It existed way before superhero comics in both fiction and real life, and it has nothing to do with rape implicitly.
    "If you're afraid - don't do it - and if you're doing it - don't be afraid!" - Genghis Khan

  6. #36
    Senior Member Lorendiac's Avatar
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    After looking at the names in the Poll, I'm leaning toward "the Pre-Crisis Supergirl, the original incarnation of Kara Zor-El."

    But there's a problem -- the poll just says "Supergirl." There have been a zillion "Supergirls" at one time or another, including multiple incarnations of the concept of "Kara Zor-El, Superman's cute blond cousin." But there was also "Matrix Supergirl" for several years, followed by Peter David's own version of "Linda Danvers Supergirl" (who for much of her run was physically and psychologically "merged" with Matrix Supergirl, though they were finally separated for good). And a great many others who didn't get to star in their very own titles.

    I can easily imagine a situation where some people voted for "Supergirl" meaning the Pre-Crisis version of Kara, and some voted meaning the Peter David version of "Linda Danvers," and some people voted for "Supergirl" meaning "the version of Kara who was rebooted by Jeph Loeb," and so on and so forth. This could make it look as if all those people were voting for the same "favorite character" when they really weren't! (Heck, some might even be casting a sympathy vote for poor Cir-El, the Supergirl in a black leotard who lasted about one year in a Superman run written by Steven Seagle.)

    Other Superman-connected ladies of whom I am reasonably fond, but who didn't get mentioned on the Poll at all, include Lori Lemaris, Lena Thorul (Lex Luthor's long-lost sister in the Pre-Crisis continuity), Encantadora, and Contessa Erica del Portenza (Lex Luthor's Wife #8 in the late 1990s).

    And don't even get me started on the various users of "Superwoman" . . . (as those of you with long memories may recall, one of my hobbies used to be compiling and updating a comprehensive listing of the first and final appearances of all "canonical" users of such names as Supergirl, Superwoman, Power Girl, Kara, etc. And I took a broad view of what qualified as "canonical.")
    Last edited by Lorendiac; 06-11-2014 at 06:28 AM.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorendiac View Post
    After looking at the names in the Poll, I'm leaning toward "the Pre-Crisis Supergirl, the original incarnation of Kara Zor-El."

    Thank goodness, I'll engage just to get this thread back on track after the previous derailment. Go on ...


    But there's a problem -- the poll just says "Supergirl." There have been a zillion "Supergirls" at one time or another, including multiple incarnations of the concept of "Kara Zor-El, Superman's cute blond cousin." But there was also "Matrix Supergirl" for several years, followed by Peter David's own version of "Linda Danvers Supergirl" (who for much of her run was physically and psychologically "merged" with Matrix Supergirl, though they were finally separated for good). And a great many others who didn't get to star in their very own titles.

    I can easily imagine a situation where some people voted for "Supergirl" meaning the Pre-Crisis version of Kara, and some voted meaning the Peter David version of "Linda Danvers," and some people voted for "Supergirl" meaning "the version of Kara who was rebooted by Jeph Loeb," and so on and so forth. This could make it look as if all those people were voting for the same "favorite character" when they really weren't! (Heck, some might even be casting a sympathy vote for poor Cir-El, the Supergirl in a black leotard who lasted about one year in a Superman run written by Steven Seagle.)

    Ah, I see your point.

    When I created the poll, there was a maximum of 15 response slots available. Nothing I could do about that (hence the 14 of the most common women seen in the Superverse, plus the "other" response). However, in the comments, we do have a much fuller list of the Women of the Superverse, which currently sit at 50 members, which include Matrix and Cir-El.

    Superman has had his Supergirls the way Batman has had his Robins ... wait, that sounded wayyy creepier than I wanted it to. Kara Zor-El is like Dick Grayson (Robin). Kara Zor-L is like Dick Grayson (Nightwing). Matrix & Cir-El are like the Tim Drake and Damien Wayne versions of Supergirl. I suppose that makes Linda Danvers the Jason Todd of Supergirls, if she is indeed a distinct enough character from Matrix.

    To be clear, the Supergirl I had in mind was a combined version of Kara Zor-El (Pre-COIE, Pre-IC, & Post-Flashpoint), since I view those as different interpretations of the same character (kinda like G.A. Supes, A.A. Supes, S.A. Supes, B.A. Supes, I.A. Supes, E.A. Supes and & M.A. Supes are just different versions of Clark Kent, not wholly separate characters).


    Other Superman-connected ladies of whom I am reasonably fond, but who didn't get mentioned on the Poll at all, include Lori Lemaris, Lena Thorul (Lex Luthor's long-lost sister in the Pre-Crisis continuity), Encantadora, and Contessa Erica del Portenza (Lex Luthor's Wife #8 in the late 1990s).

    Again, check the comments for the full list. Lori and Contessa made that list. I did miss Lena Thorul and Encantadora ... and I'm starting to think Linda Danvers might qualify for her own spot.


    And don't even get me started on the various users of "Superwoman" . . . (as those of you with long memories may recall, one of my hobbies used to be compiling and updating a comprehensive listing of the first and final appearances of all "canonical" users of such names as Supergirl, Superwoman, Power Girl, Kara, etc. And I took a broad view of what qualified as "canonical.")

    Aside from Lois Lane's own forays as a temporary superhuman Superwoman (doesn't count as a separate character), I count Kristen Wells and Lucy Lane. Not counting Superwoman from Earth-3 simply because she's definitely more of a Wonder Woman/Justice League villain. Who else is missing?


    Hmmm ... The Superverse has been around since 1938. That's 76 years and counting. Can we reach 76 Women of the Superverse? Let's find out ...

    1.) Lara
    2.) Alura
    3.) Martha Kent
    4.) Lana Lang
    5.) Lori Lemaris
    6.) Lois Lane
    7.) Supergirl / Kara Zor-El
    8.) Power Girl / Kara Zor-L
    9.) Cat Grant
    10.) Chloe Sullivan
    11.) Maggie Sawyer
    12.) Natasha Irons
    13.) Lucy Lane / Superwoman II
    14.) Maxima
    15.) Mercy Graves
    16.) Faora
    17.) Ursa
    18.) Kitty Faulkner / Rampage
    19.) Livewire
    21.) Ella Lane
    22.) Thorn
    23.) Silver Banshee
    24.) Alice White
    25.) Dr. Shay Veritas
    26.) Tana Moon (from Superboy Kon-El)
    27.) Traci-13
    28.) Cir-El (Supergirl V)
    29.) Roxy Leech (from Superboy Kon-El)
    30.) Leilani (from Intergang)
    31.) Tiny Bubbles (from Intergang)
    32.) Contessa Erica Alexandra del Portenza (Luthor's wife)
    33.) Indigo (Brainiac 8)
    34.) Toby Raynes (Maggie Sawyer's once and future girlfriend)
    35.) Dr. Gretchen Kelley (Luthor's personal physician)
    36.) Strange Visitor
    37.) Matrix (Supergirl II)
    38.) Lyla Lerr-Ol (from Godfall)
    39.) Asha Deln-Ar (from New Krypton)
    40.) Menagerie (from the Elite)
    41.) Sarah Olsen (Jimmy's mom)
    42.) Knockout (from Superboy Kon-El)*
    43.) Bess Irons (John Henry's grandma/mom figure)
    44.) Dr. Angora Lapin / White Rabbit (John Henry's ex gf / nemesis)
    45.) Kristin Wells / Superwoman I
    46.) Jenny Olsen (Jimmy's sister from MAN OF STEEL movie)
    47.) Lisa LaSalle (from SUPERMAN: EARTH ONE graphic novel)
    48.) Angela Chen (from SUPERMAN:THE ANIMATED SERIES)
    49.) Volcana (from SUPERMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES)
    50.) Insect Queen

    now adding ...

    51.) Lena Thorul
    52.) Encantadora
    53.) Linda Danvers / Supergirl IV
    54.) Mongal (Mongul's daughter)
    55.) Lacy Warfield (from SUPERMAN IV - THE QUEST FOR PEACE)
    56.) Flamebird (New Krypton)
    Last edited by daBronzeBomma; 06-11-2014 at 10:16 AM.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Blacksun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Red Monk View Post
    How cute. You're trying to use the "You don't know anything!" defense.

    Sorry, sunshine, but I know a hell of a lot about Sailor Moon than you think. For example, the lesbian characters you mentioned? Only lesbian in the Japanese version. In the western version, the censors went out of their way to omit that stuff. And even then, the lesbian stuff in Sailor Moon is about as "feminist" as Even Cowgirls Get The Blues.

    And so what that generations of girls "love the anime"? Generations of girls also love Twilight and Lauren K. Hamilton's wangsty crap. Doesn't excuse either of their flaws.

    And really? Less sexualized? Mmm, yeah, no. Especially if you know anything about Japanese culture, and what they like to fetishize.

    And, no, it's not default. Jean Grey wears more clothes than Namor The Sub-Mariner, for example.

    Also, Black Canary was not raped. That's a common misconception. Even Mike Grell said as much when questioned on it. And while people love to bitch about Sue and Ms. Marvel, they can't seem to be able to name much more, unless it's in a grim'n'gritty comic set in a crapsack world.

    And Women In Refrigerators is not a concept exclusive to comics. It existed way before superhero comics in both fiction and real life, and it has nothing to do with rape implicitly.
    Why people use a exception to the rule, like Namor, like that is the rule? Namor doesn't even uses only a speedo right now.
    women in refrigerators are a common trope, that comics books were relying too much in the past. put a woman in a refrigerator? wth

    you really know what is feminism? japan fetish things, americans fetish things too. americans even fetish my little pony. It's weird that everyday I heard from women that are feminists now, a huge influence from sailor moon. Even SM helping them coming clean with their sexuality.

  9. #39
    Ring Slinger neonrideraryeh's Avatar
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    I voted for Supergirl. She is my favourite superhero and I consider her very important to both the Superman universe and as a solo hero. I find her a very compelling character, even more so than Superman. I love what has been happening in the New 52 with her, where we see her emotional reactions to everything that happens to her and makes her feel very real. Superman went to Earth as a baby and for his entire life, has been raised as human. He didn't suffer the loss of Krypton as hard as somebody who went to Earth as a teenager or adult would. Kara is the one who truly represents the alien in a human world. She's kind of like Martian Manhunter in that respect, but more adorable without having to shape shift.

    I'm not the biggest Lois fan. I really liked her in Smallville, but in the comics I found her quite frustrating. I won't go into detail. :P

    Livewire as a villain needs more appearances. Underrated character who could potentially be great.



    As for the other discussion that made it into this thread; I think Sailor Moon is the very definition of skimpy outfits, fan-service and exploiting female characters. Makes super-heroines seem like nuns in comparison.
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    Favourite DC Characters: 1- Supergirl 2- Pandora 3- Red Lantern Bleez 4- Batgirl (Babs) 5- Larfleeze 6- Green Arrow

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  10. #40
    Senior Member Blacksun's Avatar
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    As for the other discussion that made it into this thread; I think Sailor Moon is the very definition of skimpy outfits, fan-service and exploiting female characters. Makes super-heroines seem like nuns in comparison.
    of course...starfire always used much more clothes than sailor moon...oh wait...WW used more clothes than sailor moon oh wait... I can keep going almost eternally. the only things sailor moon show is legs, a thing that I see girls showing it every day without being called 'skimpy outfits"
    Last edited by Blacksun; 06-11-2014 at 10:12 AM.

  11. #41

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    Continuing to ignore the now-completely-unrelated diatribes to focus on the actual topic of the thread here (seriously, start your own thread if you're this interested in that discussion) ...

    Does Blaze still count as part of the Superverse?

    She debuted in a Superman comic, and Superman has had some memorable fights against her in the past. On the other hand, she was pretty firmly traded to the Shazamverse to be the Wizard's demonic bride. Has she shown up in the New 52?

  12. #42
    Senior Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I vaguely recall hearing that Blaze was showing up in a title I wasn't reading. Demon Knights maybe? I could be mistaken though.
    Higher, Further, Faster...More.

  13. #43
    The (rebooted) Savior Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I vaguely recall hearing that Blaze was showing up in a title I wasn't reading. Demon Knights maybe? I could be mistaken though.
    Blaze was in SUPERGIRL. She's a prisoner in Dr. Veritas's lab thing at the Earth's core.
    Had a really nice marriage, but got retconned and now she doesn't even want to get coffee.

  14. #44

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    OK, Blaze is in.

    Who else?

    57.) Blaze
    58.) Lillian Luthor (Lionel's wife / Lex's mom)

    How about some Supergirl enemies?

    59.) Bizarrogirl (Bizarro clone of Supergirl)
    60.) Blackstarr / Rachael Berkowitz (sometimes Suicide Squad-ish enemy of Supergirl)
    61.) Selena (villain from SUPERGIRL THE MOVIE)
    62.) Black Flame / Zora Vil-Ar (Villain from Kandor)

    63.) Alphina
    64.) Blackrock III / Lucia
    65.) Mirabai (works for General Sam Lane)
    66.) Nasthalthia Luthor (Lex's super-smart niece)
    67.) Reign

    Can we get 9 more Women for the Superverse?

  15. #45
    Senior Member UltraWoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    OK, Blaze is in.

    Who else?

    57.) Blaze
    58.) Lillian Luthor (Lionel's wife / Lex's mom)

    How about some Supergirl enemies?

    59.) Bizarrogirl (Bizarro clone of Supergirl)
    60.) Blackstarr / Rachael Berkowitz (sometimes Suicide Squad-ish enemy of Supergirl)
    61.) Selena (villain from SUPERGIRL THE MOVIE)
    62.) Black Flame / Zora Vil-Ar (Villain from Kandor)

    63.) Alphina
    64.) Blackrock III / Lucia
    65.) Mirabai (works for General Sam Lane)
    66.) Nasthalthia Luthor (Lex's super-smart niece)
    67.) Reign

    Can we get 9 more Women for the Superverse?
    Lost in the conversation over Sailor Moon I posted one from the "Lois and Clark" TV series (since the movies and Adventures are included)

    68) Mindy Church (LOIS AND CLARK: THE NEW ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN)
    69) Arianna Carlin-Luthor (LOIS AND CLARK: THE NEW ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN)
    70) Mayson Drake (LOIS AND CLARK: THE NEW ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN)

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