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  1. #3736
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    I think he would accept it if it was once held by Dick Grayson.

    Red Robin really is such a terrible name. I wish all these "Formerly Known As Robin" characters would have gotten consolidated with the New 52. Keep Dick as the OG, maybe age him up a bit to more of a contemporary of Bruce. Damien (or whoever) could be your modern Robin. Tim and Jason...I'd just forgo them. I never liked Batman having a child's blood on his hands.

    If you want Tim Drake, introduce him as a love interest for Steph and a overall supporting cast member for Steph and Cass together. He can help Black Bat and the Spoiler out on top secret missions as an Intel guy...maybe one day uncovering the secret identity of the Dark Knight and Boy Wonder!
    By this logic, Damien should be forgone too. Since Bruce has "his blood on his hands".
    Last edited by Agent Z; 03-11-2018 at 10:18 AM.

  2. #3737
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    DC should push Superman way more as the pinnacle of heroism. He is the Champion of the Oppressed. Let the stories reflect that. Move away from nostalgia and let creators push forward with the mythology.
    Every superhero is a champion of the oppressed. Superman is not that special in that regard. They also are moving forward with the mythology. Or they were before nostalgia brought back the trunks.

  3. #3738
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    By this logic, Damien should be forgone too. Since Bruce has "his blood on his hands".
    Eh okay sure, you can insert whatever modern Robin you want in that role. I just said "Damien" because I like him and think he works best. His death is also kinda sorta forgotten about now anyway.

    My point was that a streamlined history would be rad.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 03-11-2018 at 10:39 AM.
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  4. #3739
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Every superhero is a champion of the oppressed. Superman is not that special in that regard. They also are moving forward with the mythology. Or they were before nostalgia brought back the trunks.
    Superman is The Champion of the Oppressed. It's a title (like Man of Steel, Last Son of Krypton, etc), and one that not every superhero has. Batman is not a champion of the oppressed.

    Superman is the working class hero. He's very special in that regard.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 03-11-2018 at 10:45 AM.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  5. #3740
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Superman is The Champion of the Oppressed. It's a title (like Man of Steel, Last Son of Krypton, etc), and one that not every superhero has. Batman is not a champion of the oppressed.

    Superman is the working class hero.
    Actually that would be Spider-Man. Steel, Plastic Man and pretty much every version of the Flash also fit that role more than Superman.

  6. #3741
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    Spider-man is the working class super hero. Superman hasn't been that character since the Golden Age. Supes would have to be drastically depowered and reconfigured to be that same character.

  7. #3742
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Every superhero is a champion of the oppressed. Superman is not that special in that regard. They also are moving forward with the mythology. Or they were before nostalgia brought back the trunks.
    Bringing back the trunks isn't preventing them from moving the mythology forward. It wasn't really moving forward when he was wearing his Rebirth costume.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Actually that would be Spider-Man. Steel, Plastic Man and pretty much every version of the Flash also fit that role more than Superman.
    He was still raised by farmers, who aren't exactly wealthy or have an easy life. Being a journalist is also still working class. He's about the same as Spider-Man in that regard, except Marvel did the stupid Parker Industries stuff.

    And as far as the Flashes go, I wouldn't consider Wally working class because there was a long stretch where he didn't have to work at all what with inheriting the Icicle's money. Which he himself said he didn't even earn and liked to show it off when he was younger.

  8. #3743
    Extraordinary Member adrikito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    I think he would accept it if it was once held by Dick Grayson.

    Red Robin really is such a terrible name. I wish all these "Formerly Known As Robin" characters would have gotten consolidated with the New 52. Keep Dick as the OG, maybe age him up a bit to more of a contemporary of Bruce. Damien (or whoever) could be your modern Robin. Tim and Jason...I'd just forgo them. I never liked Batman having a child's blood on his hands.

    If you want Tim Drake, introduce him as a love interest for Steph and a overall supporting cast member for Steph and Cass together. He can help Black Bat and the Spoiler out on top secret missions as an Intel guy...maybe one day uncovering the secret identity of the Dark Knight and Boy Wonder!
    .... Only because N52 happened, I donīt want to renounce to Jason.. Despite I liked in UNDER RED HOOD as villain, then in the comics.. I prefer him in N52 than as Batman villain..

    I am surprised for the fans hate against the RED ROBIN name..

    HAHAHAHAHHAA... You gave me one idea if one day I try to make one fanfiction story with Steph and Cass..
    Last edited by adrikito; 03-11-2018 at 11:40 AM.
    Waiting for the first Damian girlfriend.
    Cass is with the Outsiders. Waiting for one comic with Steph.

  9. #3744
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    Superman was returned to his status as a Champion of the Oppressed during the New 52 era, and it wasn't welcomed well, to say the least. I would argue that he is today (again) a very paternalistic hero, especially now that he is the father of a super son.

  10. #3745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Superman was returned to his status as a Champion of the Oppressed during the New 52 era, and it wasn't welcomed well, to say the least. I would argue that he is today (again) a very paternalistic hero, especially now that he is the father of a super son.
    I remember this... In Action Comics..
    Waiting for the first Damian girlfriend.
    Cass is with the Outsiders. Waiting for one comic with Steph.

  11. #3746
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    I've never actually heard Superman referred to as "THE Champion Of The Oppressed", outside of one of the early Action Comics titles, I think like #1. Every superhero who fights crime and upholds justice is a defender, champion, protector of the people. Batman fights for the people of Gotham, and has their best interests in mind, thats why he started to fight crime under the cowl in the first place, well one of the major reasons. Green Lantern Hal Jordan is the protector of his sector, which covers Earth and mainly Coast City. "Champion of the oppressed" could be assigned to every major hero within the DC Universe, I think. But there's no denying Superman was the first.

  12. #3747
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    D.C. should stop its attempt to push Superman as its absolute pinnacle of heroism and the greatest hero of all time. They should put his universe "in a bottle" so to speak : whatever happens to him shouldn't ever affect the rest of the DCU, at least not in the way it is doing since Rebirth.
    What's happening with him isn't having any impact on the rest of the DCU. Unless you mean Doomsday Clock, which is looking more and more like a Watchmen/General DCU story and not just a Superman one.

    Anyway, they're far more about kissing Batman's ass now than doing the same for Superman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    DC should push Superman way more as the pinnacle of heroism. He is the Champion of the Oppressed. Let the stories reflect that. Move away from nostalgia and let creators push forward with the mythology.
    Making him the greatest again would be nostalgic, but I agree that it wouldn't a bad thing. It's not as if moving him away from it has helped him or moved the mythology forward in any way. He died once and got married, and now has a kid shoehorned into things. That's it.

    He was the mightiest once and the fictional universe worked fine. Just do it and ignore the whining of the other fanbases, who have no need to be threatened by Superman coming into their book and stealing the thunder.

  13. #3748
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    I think he would accept it if it was once held by Dick Grayson.

    Red Robin really is such a terrible name. I wish all these "Formerly Known As Robin" characters would have gotten consolidated with the New 52. Keep Dick as the OG, maybe age him up a bit to more of a contemporary of Bruce. Damien (or whoever) could be your modern Robin. Tim and Jason...I'd just forgo them. I never liked Batman having a child's blood on his hands.

    If you want Tim Drake, introduce him as a love interest for Steph and a overall supporting cast member for Steph and Cass together. He can help Black Bat and the Spoiler out on top secret missions as an Intel guy...maybe one day uncovering the secret identity of the Dark Knight and Boy Wonder!
    I'd actually go the other way with it.

    Jason and Tim (and Steph and....and....and....) have been Robin. We have the stories in long boxes, and those characters all have their fans who will piss and moan when/if their adventures are retconned away. Or when the characters are written out of the story in any fashion.

    So instead of saying they were never Robin (or whoever) say that they were......but move them in a new direction. Tim never planned on being a costumed hero permanently, so just have him retire from being a vigilante and have him become Gordon's right-hand man in the GCPD. Detective Drake has a nice ring to it, and you can keep Tim active in Gotham without him needing a costume. It'd even open up new story avenues you can't quite do with Gordon or Bullock. Jason? I dunno, I liked it when he was a villain honestly. But if you can't do that, have him join Argus or SHADE or the DEO or something.
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  14. #3749
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I'd actually go the other way with it.

    Jason and Tim (and Steph and....and....and....) have been Robin. We have the stories in long boxes, and those characters all have their fans who will piss and moan when/if their adventures are retconned away. Or when the characters are written out of the story in any fashion.

    So instead of saying they were never Robin (or whoever) say that they were......but move them in a new direction. Tim never planned on being a costumed hero permanently, so just have him retire from being a vigilante and have him become Gordon's right-hand man in the GCPD. Detective Drake has a nice ring to it, and you can keep Tim active in Gotham without him needing a costume. It'd even open up new story avenues you can't quite do with Gordon or Bullock. Jason? I dunno, I liked it when he was a villain honestly. But if you can't do that, have him join Argus or SHADE or the DEO or something.
    I'd have Red Hood/Jason Todd lead a new iteration of the Suicide Squad.

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  15. #3750
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    I'd have Red Hood/Jason Todd lead a new iteration of the Suicide Squad.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    I can totally see this happening, but with Jason being an undercover agent for Batman (kind of what King and Seeley did with Nightwing in “Grayson”), though I would prefer the SS with team members that are least profitable so the writer in turn can feel free to kill a few (not constantly)
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

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