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  1. #4261
    Take Me Higher The Negative Zone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Legion87 View Post
    Another thing I noticed from some Christians and non believers is that they believe that if Jesus came by physically right now he would be this uber liberal. They think he would be okay with certain things such as abortion, drug use, pre martial sex etc. It's true, Jesus doesn't condemn anyone and is all about love and forgiveness, but he would NOT stand for sin. So I always get kinda irked with I hear some Christians and on believers make those claims and just go back to the same Jesus wasn't judgmental. I always bring up the fact that EVERY person who was living in sin that encountered Jesus DID NOT go back to how they were after that encounter. For example, the woman accused of adultry didn't go back to that after her encounter with Christ. So it's weird when I heard some people say Jesus would just be okay with people living any kind of way if he were to come back right now in today's society.
    I've always interpreted that argument was something used on hypocritical Christians. Not in use of support of the things you mentioned. Not that Jesus is directly a liberal, but he would be snarled as one for his ways and beliefs. Of course at the same time he would be snarled as a conservative too, if you can define Jesus into imperfect man made ideologies.
    Amazing Spider-Man, Scarlet Spider, and All New Guardians of The Galaxy. I can't stay away from single issues.

  2. #4262
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    I strongly suspect Jesus would have quite a lot to say about where the churches are at today spiritually. Won't get into what he'd say exactly, because that would introduce my own bias, but based on how he was in the Bible days that is where a lot of his focus would be at. And on the poor, widows, orphans.

    Now for my personal bias - he'd be upset about how many churches focus on being welcoming so they get higher attendance. Plus he'd be appalled at how insular we are in society and how little emphasis there is on actually helping people out, saints and sinners both.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  3. #4263
    Mighty Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I think there's a very big difference between God lying to someone and allowing them to be lied to, or to lie to themselves. When someone says "sends a delusion," I tend to think that means "lie."
    From a language standpoint, that's how I tend to look at it as well. The passage in question makes it seem as though the lie originates with God. But whenever I find passages problematic, I weigh them against the tone and temper of the scriptures as a whole. I also take into consideration that the authors, while inspired, are not infallible. They were still working out the contradictions in their own thought process. The scripture is a record of God reaching out to mankind, complete with all the dysfunction that entails on the human side of things. The biblical authors were not exempt from cultural, political and religious baggage, which is why even a spiritual genius like Paul is, oddly enough, passionate about women covering their heads in church services. God's Spirit enters man, but She doesn't magically take a man outside himself. (I tend to think of the Holy Spirit as feminine.)

    There isn't really a "nice" way of talking about Hell if you believe in it. I think however we choose to wrestle with it, we have to reconcile God's love and God's justice. The universalist has one way, the orthodox Calvinist has another.
    The difference, as I see it, is that an eternal hell doesn't reconcile God's love with His justice so much as forever compartmentalize them. You've got winners over here and losers over there but nothing's truly been resolved. That is, to my mind, a very worldly way of looking at God's character.

    I do think that trying to argue that because God does things that we can't and shouldn't is a catagory error - we should demand that other people worship us, but God does command that we worship Him. It would be monstrous for us to do so, but it's just and loving of God to have us worship Him, since we are made happiest by doing so.
    There's only so far you can take that argument.

    For example, an adult has the right to purchase alcohol while a child doesn't, but it does not follow that the adult has the right to break their beer bottle over a child's head because they're of a different category.

    We're both agreed that God is perfect. But you seem to say, "If God is just, then the orthodox concept of hell must also be just, no matter how troubling it is," whereas I say, "If God is just, and the orthodox concept of hell isn't, then it must somehow be mistaken."

    “Good souls many will one day be horrified at the things they now believe of God. … They can make little progress in the knowledge of God, while … holding evil things true of him.” -- George MacDonald

  4. #4264
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotional:

    WARNINGS AGAINST THE UNGODLY
    http://www.todayintheword.org/titw_devotion.aspx
    Im Mary Poppins, yall.---Yondu

    "There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us... you blinked."---Batman

    "I am a mad man with a box!"---The Doctor

    "Man wants to punch a beehive, let him punch a beehive"---Mark Waid

    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.---John 3:16

  5. #4265
    Mighty Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Star View Post
    By the way, I've mentioned this before but I believe the scriptures tell us that the "second DEATH" is to be taken quite literally. I do not believe in "eternal torment", only the eternal (everlasting, irreversible) sentence of death for the unsaved. Only the redeemed are resurrected to eternal LIFE.

    One can make a case for Satan, the beast and the false prophet being tormented forever but I don't think that's consistent with God being merciful; however, if that's what the scriptures say, I'll accept that I'm mistaken. As far as those resurrected at the end, I see the scriptures plainly indicate that they are sentenced and then destroyed for all of eternity.
    I think annihilationism is a more credible interpretation than eternal conscious torment. I agree with Augustine that evil is not an entity in itself, but the diminishment or privation of good within an actual entity. If it were possible for a soul to be eternally cut off from God (I don't think it is, but if it were) then it would, theoretically, cease to be, since evil is dependent on good for its existence but the reverse isn't true.

    That said, I believe every human soul will eventually (re)connect with the author of its being. The author of Revelation says the leaves from the tree of life are "for the healing of the nations" (Revelation 22:2). This is telling since up until this point 'the nations' always signifies those in active rebellion against God. The author does not say the leaves are for the healing of the saints or the remnant, but taken in context, the very people who were previously judged and cast out of the New Jerusalem!

  6. #4266
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotional:

    EXHORTATIONS TO PERSEVERE
    http://www.todayintheword.org/titw_devotion.aspx
    Im Mary Poppins, yall.---Yondu

    "There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us... you blinked."---Batman

    "I am a mad man with a box!"---The Doctor

    "Man wants to punch a beehive, let him punch a beehive"---Mark Waid

    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.---John 3:16

  7. #4267

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    Well looky what I found trending today:


    100 bucks says they won't make one about Allah or Muhammad.
    "Read anything I write for the pleasure of reading it. Whatever else you find will be the measure of what you brought..." - Ernest Hemingway

  8. #4268
    Tin Man MikeP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Star View Post
    Well looky what I found trending today:


    100 bucks says they won't make one about Allah or Muhammad.
    Well at the very least, he won't get death threats over mocking Christianity.

    We just won't bake him a cake.

    Edit: And just to be clear, that C&H was hilarious.
    Last edited by MikeP; 06-22-2017 at 09:50 PM.
    Life is but a dream

  9. #4269

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    I think we're still supposed to bake them a cake. Love your enemies and all that.

    I didn't think this was very funny. I'm not "triggered" or anything because I'm used to having my Savior and my faith mocked, and I'm used to being called all sorts of names for my faith.
    "Read anything I write for the pleasure of reading it. Whatever else you find will be the measure of what you brought..." - Ernest Hemingway

  10. #4270
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotional:

    NEW RELATIONSHIPS IN CHRIST
    http://www.todayintheword.org/titw_devotion.aspx
    Im Mary Poppins, yall.---Yondu

    "There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us... you blinked."---Batman

    "I am a mad man with a box!"---The Doctor

    "Man wants to punch a beehive, let him punch a beehive"---Mark Waid

    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.---John 3:16

  11. #4271
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotional:

    A RADICAL PLEA
    http://www.todayintheword.org/titw_devotion.aspx
    Im Mary Poppins, yall.---Yondu

    "There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us... you blinked."---Batman

    "I am a mad man with a box!"---The Doctor

    "Man wants to punch a beehive, let him punch a beehive"---Mark Waid

    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.---John 3:16

  12. #4272
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Today's devotional:

    QUALITIES OF GODLY LEADERSHIP
    http://www.todayintheword.org/titw_devotion.aspx
    Im Mary Poppins, yall.---Yondu

    "There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us... you blinked."---Batman

    "I am a mad man with a box!"---The Doctor

    "Man wants to punch a beehive, let him punch a beehive"---Mark Waid

    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.---John 3:16

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