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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    If you are an omnipotent being then you should be able to make plans that do not include genocide (or congenital birth defects...)

    If god is omnipotent and still includes those things on his 'to do' list, then he is evil, no two ways about it. And going on about his mysterious ways is just making excuses.
    Yeah, it's a good thing God doesn't exist, because if he did, sheesh, the world would be a scary place.

    "Hey, there's an all-powerful man in the sky, and he's cool with rape, murder, slavery and genocide under certain conditions. He also puts you in a fire pit forever if you make him mad."

    That's terrifying.

  2. #62
    Incredible Member Kees_L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Knight1047 View Post
    I truly can't explain to you how it makes it better, but just wanted to reiterate what I said before and that is that we have a finite understanding of God's plan and as such will never be able to comprehend these things. We just have to have faith that God knows best.

    I know that's not what you want to hear, but I'm not a scholar so I can't give you a better answer.
    It shows that you're not a scholar.

    Believe what you believe but don't try to impose your views onto others, as you appeared to be doing in some of your posts. Since actual scholars or theology can introduce you to how or why no mention of/by Jesus is made prior to the New Testament, which however wouldn't be weakening or strengthening any of its potential as an adagium or notion to be finding inspiring or not.

    Also it is most commonly accepted among Biblical scholars that it is pivotal to at least try for becoming aware of how the many different books or epistles making up the Bible (of Christian both as actually non-Christian origin) would need to be read, more rather than just jumping to conclusions, since the texts all date from varying ancient times when the world was actually very different from now. Even reading and translation, politics, civilization and perception will demonstratively have been radically different from today. No collection of texts will have been translated and written or rewritten as much as any of the books comprizing 'the Bible'.

    No Biblical scholar has ever proven or identified any texts or books as having been written exclusively by an apostle such as Paul or Matthew to begin with, since fact and proof apparently won't immediately make or break believers in their religion or their personal feelings of Faith.
    This is a duality, but what any bit of the Bible or any ancient religion might be to demonstrate could be that eventhough life will be hard to make sense of, people will still be trying to, even should they be mostly failing to.

    Such a duality or seeming harsh discrepancy isn't necessarily a sign of poor understanding, but ignoring it as such would be, I'd think, a sign of poor understanding.

    The fact that life can be hard to make sense of or that neither proof or doubt would need to be but guiding, anyone could be to agree.
    Last edited by Kees_L; 09-24-2015 at 05:40 PM.
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  3. #63
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    If you are an omnipotent being then you should be able to make plans that do not include genocide (or congenital birth defects...)

    If god is omnipotent and still includes those things on his 'to do' list, then he is evil, no two ways about it. And going on about his mysterious ways is just making excuses.
    That's your understanding because you (and me) are mortal and your wisdom and comprehension is limited. His is not.
    Last edited by The Whovian; 09-24-2015 at 06:42 PM.
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  4. #64
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kees_L View Post
    It shows that you're not a scholar.
    I said I wasn't in my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kees_L View Post
    Believe what you believe but don't try to impose your views onto others, as you appeared to be doing in some of your posts. Since actual scholars or theology can introduce you to how or why no mention of/by Jesus is made prior to the New Testament, which however wouldn't be weakening or strengthening any of its potential as an adagium or notion to be finding inspiring or not.
    I'm not imposing my views on others, but I will defend my faith and any untrue facts I will expose. But I didn't start this thread to have debates, I simply wanted to have a place where Christians could talk about their faith and what books of the bible they were currently reading.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kees_L View Post
    No Biblical scholar has ever proven or identified any texts or books as having been written exclusively by an apostle such as Paul or Matthew to begin with, since fact and proof apparently won't immediately make or break believers in their religion or their personal feelings of Faith.
    This is a duality, but what any bit of the Bible or any ancient religion might be to demonstrate could be that eventhough life will be hard to make sense of, people will still be trying to, even should they be mostly failing to.
    This is just totally false. Take away the bible completely and it's a fact that there are tons of texts that support the bible and what it is written in it.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Knight1047 View Post
    Absolutely. That's what Jesus taught us. I bought a new bible a couple years ago (I have about 4 different ones) but the youth pastor at my church recommended a bible that has a lot of neat stuff in it. I can't remember what's it called off the top of my head (I have it written down somewhere) but I plan on buying it.
    Mine is called The New American Bible, got it at Barnes and Nobles just the other day. We had an older one in our house for a longtime but we could not find where we misplaced it, sad I know. So I got a New one not just for my reading but for my family as well. I also made sure it was for Catholic Faith as well since me and my Family are all Catholic, hence is was a Nice addition for me and my family to have.

    Here is a link to what it looks like:

    http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-...=9780529068118


    Also, I have been hearing allot about the apps as well for the Phones, might check those out as well, Thanks for that!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Knight1047 View Post
    I'm not imposing my views on others, but I will defend my faith and any untrue facts I will expose. But I didn't start this thread to have debates, I simply wanted to have a place where Christians could talk about their faith and what books of the bible they were currently reading.
    Indeed, while I think it is always good to have a debate, this thread was not created by the opening pages for such. I never found it to good when a thread that had one major focus went off into sometime that it was never intended to be or most more then it should have. I also rather and support keeping this thread towards the opening post asked:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Knight1047 View Post
    What book of the bible are you reading? I like to read chapters from one book of the Old Testament and New Testament at the same time. I'm currently reading Habakkuk and Hebrews.

    So yea, I am not saying I like to avoid debate, anyone knows me I am a Veteran of it, LOL! But I rather have the thread stay to what it was intended too and if debate is to be wanted then another thread should be made to accommodate, I think that is a fair way to have things.
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  7. #67
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    Indeed, while I think it is always good to have a debate, this thread was not created by the opening pages for such. I never found it to good when a thread that had one major focus went off into sometime that it was never intended to be or most more then it should have. I also rather and support keeping this thread towards the opening post asked:


    So yea, I am not saying I like to avoid debate, anyone knows me I am a Veteran of it, LOL! But I rather have the thread stay to what it was intended too and if debate is to be wanted then another thread should be made to accommodate, I think that is a fair way to have things.
    Agreed. If other posters want to debate the authenticity of the bible or whatever, then they can open another thread for that.
    “I will fight. Forever. For everyone, whether they know it or not. Whether they are watching or not. I will always fight.”---Daredevil

    "There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us... you blinked."---Batman

    "I am a mad man with a box!"---The Doctor

    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.---John 3:16

  8. #68
    Incredible Member Iron_Legion87's Avatar
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    Yea have some respect for people's beliefs guys regardless on if you are religious or not. Clearly, this thread wasn't made for people to come in having debates and trying to debunk religion. If you can't have a respectful and civil converstation then I would recommend ignoring this thread. That way nobody gets banned or anything and people that are religious and want to discuss the bible here can do so.

  9. #69
    Ultimate Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Knight1047 View Post
    That's your understanding because you (and me) are mortal and your wisdom and comprehension is limited. His is not.
    Carabas is actually infallible. It might be in the bible somewhere.

    Unless we disagree, and then I get suspicious about his infallibility.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    If you are an omnipotent being then you should be able to make plans that do not include genocide (or congenital birth defects...)

    If god is omnipotent and still includes those things on his 'to do' list, then he is evil, no two ways about it. And going on about his mysterious ways is just making excuses.
    Depends on how you look it at. If you accept the notion of heaven and hell, then what happens on Earth is an entirely finite thing, and the suffering you might experience on Earth, no matter how great it seems, would be minuscule in comparison to what you would enjoy in heaven. The value you place on the wrongs of the world is entirely dependent on a limited understanding and scope of the universe.

  11. #71
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Legion87 View Post
    I encourage you guys to download the Youversion bible app. It has a ton of reading plans and stuff.
    Just downloaded, and I think the way it seems so hands on will help me with consistency. I haven't set time aside to really focus on particular issues in pretty much forever.

  12. #72
    Incredible Member Iron_Legion87's Avatar
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    I say this then I am going back on topic. To the people that came into this thread trying to "debunk" religion or prove that God is a fallacy and Christians are hateful people out to oppress gay people and women who choose abortion. First, not every person who says they are Christian are really Christian. There are some people who are indeed hate filled people that twist the bible to spew hate, judgement, and condemnation towards others. Those people are NOT what I would genuine or real Christians. So just know that not all Christians are like those people, so it's pretty unfair to try to lump everyone religious into that group.

    Second, Christians who believe in what the bible says about marriage and relationships are not all hateful people. I believe in traditional marriage but I am not out here spewing hate to homosexuals or trying to deny their rights. I love and respect them as fellow human beings. Like I said before, you don't have to accept or support everything someone else does in their life in order for you to love them. I am also pro life, but I am not condemning a woman who chose abortion. Ultimately it's her choice and she has to live with whatever her decision is. I just wish more people in society would realize that everyone has the right to live have they see fit and believe in whatever it is they believe.

  13. #73
    Incredible Member Iron_Legion87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Just downloaded, and I think the way it seems so hands on will help me with consistency. I haven't set time aside to really focus on particular issues in pretty much forever.
    It helps me out a lot. I am currently on the 30 day New Testment plan. I have to set reminders but I do fall behind sometimes. Luckily, you can always set the app to catch you up by shifting the dates forward etc. Also, having the option to listen to the bible being read is a cool tool to.

  14. #74
    Astonishing Member dzub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Legion87 View Post
    Yea have some respect for people's beliefs guys regardless on if you are religious or not. Clearly, this thread wasn't made for people to come in having debates and trying to debunk religion. If you can't have a respectful and civil converstation then I would recommend ignoring this thread. That way nobody gets banned or anything and people that are religious and want to discuss the bible here can do so.
    excuse me for butting in and going a little off topic.
    i'm not a christian but i really dislike how 97% of religious discussion on the internet inevitably takes a debate/debunk turn, with the odd jab or two sometimes.

    yes people do use the name of religion to spread hate and commit acts of violence, but these people would distort whatever ideals to further their agenda. they are inherently negative people who hide behind religion as an excuse for being intolerant bigots.

    that said, have a good day everyone !
    Last edited by dzub; 09-24-2015 at 08:41 PM. Reason: grammar
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Legion87 View Post
    Yea have some respect for people's beliefs guys regardless on if you are religious or not. Clearly, this thread wasn't made for people to come in having debates and trying to debunk religion. If you can't have a respectful and civil converstation then I would recommend ignoring this thread. That way nobody gets banned or anything and people that are religious and want to discuss the bible here can do so.
    Hey, have some respect for my beliefs. I read the Bible just like everyone else here. The fact that I think it's just a really interesting made-up story shouldn't bar me from the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by lancerman View Post
    Depends on how you look it at. If you accept the notion of heaven and hell, then what happens on Earth is an entirely finite thing, and the suffering you might experience on Earth, no matter how great it seems, would be minuscule in comparison to what you would enjoy in heaven. The value you place on the wrongs of the world is entirely dependent on a limited understanding and scope of the universe.
    That makes heaven into the expensive toy the abusive dad gives his kid so they feel better about the black eye. Sure, he tortures you, but look at the awesome eventual reward.

    Quote Originally Posted by dzub View Post
    excuse me for butting in and going a little off topic.
    i'm not a christian but i really dislike how 97% of religious discussion on the internet inevitably takes a debate/debunk turn, with the odd jab or two sometimes.

    yes people do use the name of religion to spread hate and commit acts of violence, but these people would distort whatever ideals to further their agenda. they are inherently negative people who hide behind religion as an excuse for being intolerant bigots.

    that said, have a good day everyone !
    It's the best excuse ever invented, though, because it carries absolute authority and doesn't have to be supported with reason. That's why it's so powerful and dangerous. It can justify anything without limits, shut down any argument, push past even the most extreme logical, scientific and historical inaccuracies, answer any legitimate moral doubt with a "God works in mysterious ways," and as a topper it declares any other concerns petty and temporal compared to its eternal grandeur.

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