1. #90796
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    This isn't the best film to choose for whitewashing. The closest thing to a hero in the main cast was replaced by a black actor. Ghost in the Shell is a much better choice to illustrate whitewashing, since they kept the location and names - Netflix's Death Note moved everything to the U.S.
    I've never made the argument that every complaint is justified -- just that we should be having this discussion, instead of always deflecting from it, or pretending that the problem doesn't exist.

    For us as viewers, maybe other films (like "The Last Airbender") serve as better examples, but for the Asian-American actor who dreamed of starring in "Death Note", this is a uniquely personal example of the issue at hand.

    Regardless, arguing "levels" or whitewashing is redundant -- the point here is that Asian-Americans have to deal with issues of discrimination as well, especially in the entertainment industry.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 02-12-2018 at 05:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    Once again, many poor white people don't see white privilege because it's invisible. If you can walk through a convenience store without a clerk following you to make sure you don't shoplift, that's white privilege. If you don't have to worry about your kid's teacher expecting him to fail, that's white privilege, too. As I said, it's things we white people take for granted, but Black people never can.
    Er..actually..it’s not..those are two examples of direct discrimation against non white people, without any unearnt benefit to the white majority...if the discrimination against others had not taken place the white person would be completely unaffected.

    “White privilege” used in correct technical sense refers to cases where white people benefit indirectly from the discrimination against other races. An example, might be a person benefitting from better schools in predominantly white area where s/he lives...because spending less in schools in other areas has left more in budget to spend on the “white” schools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mojotastic View Post
    The perspective of that is awful.
    Got the hands right, though.

    Not a fan of that joke, really, but couldn't help but notice it in the picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    This isn't the best film to choose for whitewashing. The closest thing to a hero in the main cast was replaced by a black actor. Ghost in the Shell is a much better choice to illustrate whitewashing, since they kept the location and names - Netflix's Death Note moved everything to the U.S.
    On this particular example, I do think it's worth noting that it would likely have been a "Lose"/"Lose" proposition.

    While they clearly swiped roles that should have gone to Asian actors, I have almost no doubt in my mind that Asian actors would have probably shouldered the blame for what most folks agree was a mess if they had been cast in those roles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    I've never made the argument that every complaint is justified -- just that we should be having this discussion, instead of always deflecting from it, or pretending that the problem doesn't exist.

    For us as viewers, maybe other films (like "The Last Airbender") serve as better examples, but for the Asian-American actor who dreamed of starring in "Death Note", this is a uniquely personal example of the issue at hand.

    Regardless, arguing "levels" or whitewashing is redundant -- the point here is that Asian-Americans have to deal with issues of discrimination as well, especially in the entertainment industry.
    There's been multiple live action Death Note movies. The one's that were made in a predominately Asian country featured a predominately Asian cast. The one that was made in a predominately white country featured a predominately white cast. See because they moved everything to America. It's the same reason most protagonists in anime and manga are Asian and the same reason the majority of comic book characters in the West are white.

    It's not really hard to figure those things out. They want to cater to demographics. It's the same reason both American Godzilla movies featured a primarily white cast. If an Chinese or Japanese studio got the right for a Spider-Man film for their market, what race do you think Spider-Man would be?
    Last edited by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE; 02-12-2018 at 05:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    Er..actually..it’s not..those are two examples of direct discrimation against non white people, without any unearnt benefit to the white majority...if the discrimination against others had not taken place the white person would be completely unaffected.

    “White privilege” used in correct technical sense refers to cases where white people benefit indirectly from the discrimination against other races. An example, might be a person benefitting from better schools in predominantly white area where s/he lives...because spending less in schools in other areas has left more in budget to spend on the “white” schools.
    But even that example is off.A black person that goes to the well off school well (unless the are other factor in the school itself) still receive the same benefits a white student gets.

    Likewise a white student will still be disadvantaged. In that case its the area itself that's important. Not the race that happens to live there .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baseman View Post
    But even that example is off.A black person that goes to the well off school well (unless the are other factor in the school itself) still receive the same benefits a white student gets.

    Likewise a white student will still be disadvantaged. In that case its the area itself that's important. Not the race that happens to live there .
    The argument against that is that the areas that those better schools are in tend to be more white. What ends up happening is as an area gets more diverse, the wealthier white people move further and further into suburbs and those places get the better funding. It's all intertwined with a slanted economic system. You have to think of it in the total.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    There's been multiple live action Death Note movies. The one's that were made in a predominately Asian country featured a predominately Asian cast. The one that was made in a predominately white country featured a predominately white cast. See because they moved everything to America. It's the same reason most protagonists in anime and manga are Asian and the same reason the majority of comic book characters in the West are white.

    It's not really hard to figure those things out. They want to cater to demographics. It's the same reason both American Godzilla movies featured a primarily white cast. If an Chinese or Japanese studio got the right for a Spider-Man film for their market, what race do you think Spider-Man would be?
    The point is that these are American -- not "Chinese" or "Japanese" -- actors who can't even get "Asian" roles in the country of their birth: the reason behind this is discrimination, not because this is a "predominately white" country.

    Anyway, this argument is getting redundant again -- if you don't see the irony in thinking that "Asian-American" lead actors can't "cater" to "predominately white" audiences because they aren't "white" isn't racist against Asian-Americans, then I don't know what else to tell you at this point.

    It just shows that you are so used to being "catered to" (as a "white" person) that you don't even see such blatant racism as an issue -- there's absolutely no reason why an Asian-American actor would have to be "white" to appeal to a "general" audience, anymore than Black Panther would, for example.

    Well, there is one reason... but it's being dodged repeatedly.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 02-12-2018 at 06:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    There's been multiple live action Death Note movies. The one's that were made in a predominately Asian country featured a predominately Asian cast. The one that was made in a predominately white country featured a predominately white cast. See because they moved everything to America. It's the same reason most protagonists in anime and manga are Asian and the same reason the majority of comic book characters in the West are white.

    It's not really hard to figure those things out. They want to cater to demographics. It's the same reason both American Godzilla movies featured a primarily white cast. If an Chinese or Japanese studio got the right for a Spider-Man film for their market, what race do you think Spider-Man would be?
    Did someone say "Japanese Spiderman"?

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    In better -- and slightly less political yet slightly more momentous -- news, Michael Fassbender will be starring in a Kung Fury feature film.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...e-film-1083883

    Where do you go after you've already turned it up to 11?


  11. #90806
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Did someone say "Japanese Spiderman"?
    I think Italian Spiderman is played by an Australian -- they get all the good roles.

    Last edited by aja_christopher; 02-12-2018 at 06:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    In better -- and slightly less political yet slightly more momentous -- news, Michael Fassbender will be starring in a Kung Fury feature film.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...e-film-1083883

    Where do you go after you've already turned it up to 11?

    I am so happy to see this news!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    I am so happy to see this news!
    Me too. I was wondering if their plans to make a larger scale project had stalled out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    I look forward to the day when you just condemn this kind of Republican behavior, rather than discussing the ways in which said behavior can be "plausibly denied".

    Not holding my breath or anything, but looking forward to it.

    With regards to the issue of "universal basic income" it's an almost inevitable necessity given the future of automation (robots, AI, etc) but I doubt America will embrace it anytime soon no matter how cost-effective it is -- and almost certainly not until after Europe has done so first.
    I think I'm on the right side with "Anglo-American" being a reference to the British roots of the American system rather than a racist dog whistle.

    There's a good piece about this in the National Review by Charles Cooke, which quotes noted conservative apologist Barack Obama.

    Jeff Sessions is under fire today for having used a term correctly, appropriately, and in its entirely proper context. Per CNN, Sessions told the National Sheriffs Association:
    “I want to thank every sheriff in America. Since our founding, the independently elected sheriff has been the people’s protector, who keeps law enforcement close to and accountable to people through the elected process,” Sessions said in remarks at the National Sheriffs Association winter meeting, adding, “The office of sheriff is a critical part of the Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement.” “We must never erode this historic office,” Sessions continued.
    Which part of this pabulum inspired outrage? Here’s Brian Schatz, a U.S. Senator to explain:
    Do you know anyone who says “Anglo-American heritage” in a sentence? What could possibly be the purpose of saying that other than to pit Americans against each other? For the chief law enforcement officer to use a dog whistle like that is appalling. Best NO vote I ever cast. — Brian Schatz (@brianschatz) February 12, 2018
    Brian Schatz is a lawmaker in the United States Congress. In fact, as a senator, he’s more than that: He’s one of just 100 people in this country who get to confirm federal judges, including to the Supreme Court. And, apparently, he’s unaware of what the term “Anglo-American heritage” means. We’re screwed. Schatz is not alone. Inexplicably, Sessions’s comments ignited an instant firestorm on Twitter. This reaction was typical:
    Jeff Sessions literally called sheriffs a ‘critical part of the Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement’. WTF is happening America?? How is this right? How is this American? — Brian Krassenstein (@krassenstein) February 12, 2018
    Let me put this impolitely: This is moronic. And not just a little bit moronic. This is so moronic, so dim, so utterly and incandescently stupid that I frankly worry for the future of the republic.

    I have been reading through these reactions for a few hours now, and I can still scarcely imagine the rank historical and legal illiteracy that it takes to hear “Anglo-American” in such a context and to assume it’s a racial reference. Sessions could not have been more clear if he had tried. His talk was to sheriffs — about sheriffs. His subject was the “historic office” that most of his audience filled. His point — “literally”! — was that, “since our founding, the independently elected sheriff” has played a “critical” role within a law enforcement system that developed in England and was then adopted in America. (“Sheriff” derives from a combination of the word “shire” and the word “reeve.”) In order to make that point at that talk, he said, “The office of sheriff is a critical part of the Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement.”

    It is hard to overstate just how commonly used this phrase is in this context. Within the law, “Anglo-American” does not mean “white.” It does not mean “the KKK.” It is not a “dog whistle.” It is fundamental. It is used — shock! — to refer to those institutions, ideals, structures, and customs that are common to England and the United States — that is, to the common legal heritage the two countries share. Most basically, it means “common law,” but it can also apply more broadly. There is, for example, an identifiable “Anglo-American” conception of due process, which is distinct from, say, the Napoleonic system. That some people also use the word “Anglo” to mean “white” has no bearing on this. Has Senator Schatz never read a history book?

    Know who had read a history book? Or at least had read a legal book? President Barack Obama, who, like Jeff Sessions but unlike Senator Schatz, is a lawyer. Here’s Senator Obama in 2006, arguing in favor of habeas corpus on the Senate floor:
    The world is watching what we do today in America. They will know what we do here today, and they will treat all of us accordingly in the future—our soldiers, our diplomats, our journalists, anybody who travels beyond these borders. I hope we remember this as we go forward. I sincerely hope we can protect what has been called the “great writ”—a writ that has been in place in the Anglo-American legal system for over 700 years.
    And here’s Obama during the 2008 campaign, making broadly the same point:
    But Obama, who taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago for more than a decade, said captured suspects deserve to file writs of habeus corpus. Calling it “the foundation of Anglo-American law,” he said the principle “says very simply: If the government grabs you, then you have the right to at least ask, ‘Why was I grabbed?’ And say, ‘Maybe you’ve got the wrong person.’” The safeguard is essential, Obama continued, “because we don’t always have the right person.”
    And here’s Obama as president, at it again:
    Obama would not say whether it could be achieved within the first 100 days of his term, citing the challenge of creating a balanced process “that adheres to rule of law, habeas corpus, basic principles of Anglo-American legal system, but doing it in a way that doesn’t result in releasing people who are intent on blowing us up.
    This usage — which is precisely the same as Sessions’s — is common, it is quotidian, it is downright normal. It is found in legal textbooks, in works of history, and in Supreme Court opinions alike. More important, it’s extremely useful. We need a term that means “long within the unusual legal tradition that predated the independence of this nation,” and “Anglo-American” works perfectly in that role. If we allow it to be taken from us by the hysterical and the unlettered, we’ll be considerably worse off for it.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  15. #90810
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I think I'm on the right side with "Anglo-American" being a reference to the British roots of the American system rather than a racist dog whistle.
    I'll admit -- it is plausibly deniable.

    Seriously though -- it's a non-issue for me.

    It's his actions that bother me a lot more than his words.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 02-12-2018 at 08:24 PM.

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