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  1. #101086
    Sans Pants ChadH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    No Iím putting tangibly winning on the issue over chest thumping and posturing that gets nowhere.

    Letís go with this though. Parkland shooting was in February. The most significant gun legislation since has been some measures to put armed guards in school, which they explicitly didnít want, and having to wear transparent backpacks.

    Again it has nothing to do with being right as opposed to being effective. One way hasnít worked and has died the same death for several decades. It might be time to admit tuatsva failing strategy and push for a

    1. actual effective measure
    2. Something the Republicans canít easily argue against and undercut you.

    Cause whatís going on right now clearly isnít working, and quite frankly thereís no reason to believe it will.
    You need to take into account the thousands of heavily armed libertarians who will lose their collective shit if it looks like the 2nd Amendment is even close to being abolished.
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  2. #101087
    Guardian Empress of Earth Tami's Avatar
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    Asbury Park loves everybody. Except this 'hateful' evangelical pastor

    Members of the LGBTQ community and supporters plan to hold a "counter-festival" in Asbury Park on Sunday to coincide with the start of a six-day evangelical gathering where the featured speaker is a pastor whose sermons have been condemned as hateful by city officials and community leaders.

    The evangelical gathering, known as the Festival of Life scheduled to run June 24-29 at Bradley Park, a block from the beach on Ocean Avenue, across from the Convention Center.

    The pastor whose prior remarks generated the controversy is the Rev. Jonathan Shuttlesworth of the Revival Today ministry, based in Oakdale, Pennsylvania.

    According to Revival Today's website, "Since 2015, Jonathan has conducted a number of open air crusades and outreaches dedicated to winning the lost."

    But Shuttlesworth has referred to homosexuality as "wicked" in sermons and public remarks that have been condemned as hate speech. So a demonstration is being planned by members of Asbury Park's sizable and longstanding LGBTQ community, including the group Garden State Equality.
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  3. #101088
    Guardian Empress of Earth Tami's Avatar
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    Two charts demolish the notion that immigrants here illegally commit more crime

    The Trump administration's hard-line immigration policies are predicated, in part, upon the notion that immigrants who are in the country illegally represent a threat to public safety.

    The White House, for instance, has sent out regular email blasts to reporters with alarmist accounts of crime committed by undocumented immigrants. President Trump has frequently exaggerated the threat posed by MS-13, a criminal gang originating in Los Angeles whose members tend to be from Central American countries. On Tuesday he wrote on Twitter, without evidence, that Democrats "don’t care about crime and want illegal immigrants, no matter how bad they may be, to pour into and infest our Country, like MS-13."

    But the social-science research on immigration and crime is clear: Undocumented immigrants are considerably less likely to commit crime than native-born citizens, with immigrants legally in the United States even less likely to do so. A number of studies published in the past several months clearly illustrate the consensus.
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  4. #101089
    Guardian Empress of Earth Tami's Avatar
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    Vote against the GOP this November

    Amid the carnage of Republican misrule in Washington, there is this glimmer of good news: The family-shredding policy along the southern border, the most telegenic recent example of misrule, clarified something. Occurring less than 140 days before elections that can reshape Congress, the policy has given independents and temperate Republicans ó these are probably expanding and contracting cohorts, respectively ó fresh if redundant evidence for the principle by which they should vote.

    The principle: The congressional Republican caucuses must be substantially reduced. So substantially that their remnants, reduced to minorities, will be stripped of the Constitutionís Article I powers that they have been too invertebrate to use against the current wielder of Article II powers. They will then have leisure time to wonder why they worked so hard to achieve membership in a legislature whose unexercised muscles have atrophied because of people like them.

    Consider the melancholy example of House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (Wis.), who wagered his dignity on the patently false proposition that it is possible to have sustained transactions with todayís president, this Vesuvius of mendacities, without being degraded. In Robert Boltís play ďA Man for All Seasons,Ē Thomas More, having angered Henry VIII, is on trial for his life. When Richard Rich, whom More had once mentored, commits perjury against More in exchange for the office of attorney general for Wales, More says: ďWhy, Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world . . . But for Wales!Ē Ryan traded his political soul for . . . a tax cut. He who formerly spoke truths about the accelerating crisis of the entitlement system lost everything in the service of a president pledged to preserve the unsustainable status quo.
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  5. #101090
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    That's George Will, leaving the Republican party for obvious reasons -- apparently he's at least conscientious enough to know to "vote against" a party that supports someone like Trump for President.

    ------

    "George Will, a longtime political commentator and staunch defender of the conservative movement, made a dramatic exit from the Republican Party Friday, citing the party’s support for Donald Trump in the upcoming 2020 presidential election.

    In a speech at a luncheon held by the Federalist Society, Will urged other conservatives not to support Trump as the GOP nominee. “This is not my party,” Will said the speech, noting that while it’s a little too late to find a replacement for him on the ticket, conservatives can “grit their teeth for four years” after making sure that Trump loses.

    Will mentioned that he had switched his voter registration from Republican to “unaffiliated” in the state of Maryland. He told the Washington Post, where he writes a column, that he made the change several weeks ago, after House Speaker Paul Ryan endorsed Trump for the 2020 election."

    http://fortune.com/2018/06/22/george...-donald-trump/
    Last edited by aja_christopher; Today at 06:49 PM.

  6. #101091
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ouroboros View Post
    Whenever the media creates a non-issue, resort to "wag the dog" in order to blame the non-issue on the government.
    I think the fact that you think 2000+ children taken from their parents in ages ranging from infants on up is 'nothing more than a ruse to distract people' says everything any of us ever needed to know about you and how seriously we ought to take discussing anything with you at all.

    Also, I'm just a poster on a political message board, not an immigration expert, but several ideas have been bandied around this thread and links offered where people point to ways we can solve the dilemma. We have more than two choices and plenty of them don't require Trump's monstrous, immoral policies or 'chaos'. That's a continuum that exists only to justify the wanton cruelty you seem to want to pretend doesn't exist.

  7. #101092

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    You need to take into account the thousands of heavily armed libertarians who will lose their collective shit if it looks like the 2nd Amendment is even close to being abolished.
    And that's fine and all and I get that I'm not asking for something easy. But if you are failing at trying to take the smaller compromises and not even gaining traction off that and the key argument is that they are low impact, at some point you have to rethink what you are doing and think that maybe it is time to change the discussion to the end goal instead of a possible small step plan.

  8. #101093

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    This is the "MS-13!" and "Unrestricted Immigration!" thing from earlier all over again. Not only did the Assault Weapons Ban do some work but I'm not the one unwilling to admit that the proposals will change when there is a Supermajority where the Manchin's are either voted out out outnumbered to the point where they can't stop meaningful change. While that is an idealistic scenario, it's FAR more likely to happen than the magic 2/3rds and I've been clear on many occasions that I'm fine with pushing to end the 2nd if that's how you feel but don't pull a "2nd Or Bust" and crap on anything else like a NRA shill playing up the "libruls gunna take r guns!" stereotype.



    Not so sure on the forever part of that, but I certainly agree that things are currently opposed to anything resembling worthwhile change when it comes to gun policy.
    This is so out of context. Read the post I responding too. Also I didn't say shit about MS-13. I don't give the slightest fuck about them.

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