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  1. #77926
    Spectacular Member TheDarman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    My comment seemed to be understood as joke by a liberal poster, a Trump defender and a guy who doesn't post that much and seems to have nuanced opinions, so if I'm going with a "just joking" angle of defense, I'd have to be lucky enough to have others beat me to the punch.
    I know this wasn't a response to me but this made my night.
    Last edited by TheDarman; Yesterday at 09:03 PM.
    With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility

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  2. #77927

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    I wish people who are Savvy like Ezra klein would actually look at Polling on Policy and get out of their bubbles.

    This is why People don't fight hard for Democrats.
    When is the right time to bring up Single Payer?

    When Democrats control Government? Nope. We must get Bipartisanship with the GOP, there are good people over there..
    When Republicans control Government? Nope. We can't talk about it until we get power.
    During and Election? No, we have to win on the issues and values. We can't talk about Single Payer until we have power.
    When over 60% of the American public want it? Nope, American doesn't really want it, even though they say they do.

    So basically it's never a good time to talk about improving the lives of Americans.
    Is always confused.....

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  3. #77928
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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  4. #77929

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    /Slow Clap /slow clap
    Is always confused.....

    My Name is Psylocke, "Stabby stabby pew pew!"

    My Psylocke stories at Fanfiction.net (ignore the editing, it's bad on purpose) https://www.fanfiction.net/~tazirai
    My better edited versions on Comicvine. Just check profile and my forum posts in fan fiction section. http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/tazirai/

  5. #77930
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    What irks me is the judgemental wrong-headedness of assuming that people who are against police brutality are therefore against police in general.
    Like we can't have one without the other or something. How dare we insist that the police be held accountable for their actions!
    And most cops are FINE with that. It's when we see the catcalls of kill every cop, segregate them from the communities and attack them at will that we see issues.

    We don't see the ones like the guy at the Trump rally who say we want bad cops held accountable. We got from the media and worldstar and youtube-Pookie and Ray Ray (with long criminal rap sheets in most cases) going off about death to all cops.

    Everybody wants to go after cops but how about going after the SOURCE?

    What can be done to keep our black males out of jail in the first place? What's NOT being done in terms of jobs, schools and so on that could deter that thug life.

    What can be done to better screen folks who want to be cops?

    What can be done in terms of personal relationships that can be taught to keep folks form fighting or shooting each other?

    When do we look at LAWS?

    When do we look at black on black violence? NO one wants to hear about a killer cop when we kill each other over anything. Those cops will forever be looked as heroes for killing folks who hate themselves.

    YOU do the above and you will probably see a LOT of house cleaning not only in the police station but other offices as well. Especially the Mayor and governor's offices.


    And finally it's hard to not be fearful if you are a cop because the MAIN ones getting killed or jumped are cops who have had NOTHING to do with the killing of black males.

    What did the cops in Dallas who died have to do with Mike Brown, Alton Sterling, Gray, Castle and so on? Should you go after the folks who killed them? That's LOGIC.

  6. #77931
    Spectacular Member TheDarman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazirai View Post
    I wish people who are Savvy like Ezra klein would actually look at Polling on Policy and get out of their bubbles.

    This is why People don't fight hard for Democrats.
    When is the right time to bring up Single Payer?

    When Democrats control Government? Nope. We must get Bipartisanship with the GOP, there are good people over there..
    When Republicans control Government? Nope. We can't talk about it until we get power.
    During and Election? No, we have to win on the issues and values. We can't talk about Single Payer until we have power.
    When over 60% of the American public want it? Nope, American doesn't really want it, even though they say they do.

    So basically it's never a good time to talk about improving the lives of Americans.
    I'd say that it is always a good time to discuss the issue. I think it is good for Democrats to get their ducks in a row so that they can figure out what they want their campaign promises to be and can actually run on a specific platform. Republicans are paying the price for running on "repeal and replace" and never really being able to specify "replace", leading to a huge amount of disorganization now. So, I think it is important that Democrats understand what it is they, and their colleagues, mean when they say "improve the current health care system".

    However, I would caution against using single payer as the end-all be-all solution. It isn't perfect either. I wouldn't even really say that the issue with single payer is what happens when we get there--I think it is quite clear that a system like it would be better than the one that we have. It would likely be cheaper (lower administrative costs and an obviously larger pool) for pretty much everyone and everyone would be covered. Issues like those that occur in Canada can largely be side-stepped by increasing the funding comparative to what they do (which we'd need to in order to make it at all workable). Instead, the issue lies in what happens in transition.

    In Canada, health care spending accounts for 11% of its GDP. In Great Britain, a system in which the public owns the hospitals, health care spending accounts for 12% of the GDP. In the United States, the total amount that we collectively spend on health care is at 18%, roughly a fifth of the nation's economy. A lot of this can be tied back to administrative costs and the like. These are things that would largely be eliminated with the single payer system. However, we can cheer about lower costs but lower costs on any good come at a price. In this case, we're looking at a likely difference of 6% of our GDP to shift towards a relatively efficient single payer system. Now, we could side-step a lot of Conservative concerns about this by upping our relative spending on it to make it more efficient. We have to be careful, though, not to be spending money for the sake of spending money. That isn't efficient either and, eventually, we're going to run into the law of diminishing returns.

    So much of our current market is tied up in bureaucratic systems to guarantee profit that eliminating those centers in one fell swoop will have a huge effect on the economy. I'd say that we're looking at a best case scenario of roughly 3% GDP reduction. That's a pretty hefty reduction and it would be a lot to ask for the other sectors of the economy to grow enough to ensure that there isn't an overall GDP reduction by the end of the year. When GDP falls overall, that leads to a recession. The question then becomes whether or not Democrats are willing to make the point that the recession was necessary to make a more fair and just system of health care...and whether voters will respond positively to that message. I'm dubious that they will and I'm dubious that there aren't, perhaps, better ways to make the current system work better and get more people insured underneath it.

    So, when folks on The Young Turks complain about Obama not having gone for single payer while he was president, it truly baffles me. We're talking about cutting a huge hole in the nation's economy when it is still recovering from the worst economic recession since the Great Depression. I suppose it'd be a decent idea if Democrats wanted to never win an election again. For its time, it makes perfect sense why we got the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. Even today, I think I'd probably fall more on the side of the ACA than the single payer proposal. It does necessary reforms without upending the entire system. I don't think incrementalism is a four-letter word and I think that there are incremental steps that we could take to improve our health care system.

    I think that we should increase funding to Medicaid and try to really implement the Medicaid expansion nationwide--perhaps be slightly coercive (though not coercive to the extent we were when the bill passed, because we ended up with that coercive action gutted by two liberal justices on the Supreme Court). I think that we should reduce the Medicare eligibility age to fifty, instead of zero. This would shrink the insurance pool to people who are generally younger and healthier and get those who need insurance more often onto a government program so that they aren't driving everyone else's premiums up. (This will likely be hard as well, as taxes will have to be raised for this to happen but seems less likely to provoke an angry response from voters than a recession.) I think that, from there, we leave in place ObamaCare's basic structure, allowing for premiums to fall with healthier insurance pools and for those that are sick underneath the age of fifty to truly get the best care that we could give them.

    There are also plenty of other ideas that health care policy wonks have come up with to improve the system. And I think the best way forward is going to be to adopt the plans that help people the most for the least amount of overall disruption to the market and to the people. What that ends up being, we'll see but I don't think it is going to be the Sanders plan. It's not naive by any stretch--it just seems to leave a lot of the consequences of it out of the discussion. And, frankly, Conservatives acting hysterically about "socialism this" and "socialism that" for the last eight years has, frankly, made it so that it is difficult to take most of their complaints about a single payer plan seriously. This is especially true when most of them can really only pay lip service to what's wrong with the plan without actually addressing the real issues with the proposal, as I laid out above.
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  7. #77932
    Spectacular Member TheDarman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    And most cops are FINE with that. It's when we see the catcalls of kill every cop, segregate them from the communities and attack them at will that we see issues.
    I don't really see this too often to be completely honest. Indeed, people like that are often ousted from their local Black Lives Matter rallies and groups. This is probably a result of the one protest that got replayed over and over again by Fox and The Blaze of "pigs in a blanket; watch them burn". So, I'd have to disagree that this is even a remotely substantial part of the rhetoric that is being thrown about by BLM. And I'd disagree that most cops are fine with that. Police unions seem to be awfully hesitant about embracing the idea of wearing body cams for example. These would only catch police doing bad things so...what's wrong?

    We don't see the ones like the guy at the Trump rally who say we want bad cops held accountable. We got from the media and worldstar and youtube-Pookie and Ray Ray (with long criminal rap sheets in most cases) going off about death to all cops.
    Okay, I feel really uncultured, but I have no idea who those guys are. And I think that that is all anyone really wants. The issue is that bad cops are consistently not held accountable. If that's not bad enough, a large segment of the country seem to have no real desire to see them held accountable. What's more is that a significant part of Trump's base, and Trump himself it seems, are more than happy to see police officers "get rough" and be violent with those that they are tasked to "protect and serve". I mean, what else does the pardon of Joe Arpaio tell you?

    Everybody wants to go after cops but how about going after the SOURCE?

    What can be done to keep our black males out of jail in the first place? What's NOT being done in terms of jobs, schools and so on that could deter that thug life.
    Well, see, you're coming at the question from the wrong place. My question is why, when all ethnic groups use drugs at the exact same rate, do African Americans make up more than 60% of the population of those thrown in jail for drug related offenses? That seems to be pointing towards an enforcement issue, one where police target African Americans more than Caucasians. If we're going to accept drug policy (which I think is wrong--we really should focus more on rehabilitation than imprisonment), then we have to accept it equally. Because people are getting locked away for morally irrelevant characteristics when the morally relevant action is just as prevalent in populations that make up a larger percentage of the population.

    We can talk about what leads to crime, sure, but that seems to be for pretty much everyone. It's a lack of opportunities and the difficultly in being able to provide for one's self and one's family. It becomes a cyclical struggle to leave--regardless of racial identity. Of course, it becomes that much more difficult if one is an ethnic minority for the same reason that you would actively frame your question as if it was an ethnic problem rather than one about all those that find themselves impoverished. Studies have shown that African American sounding names are less likely to get call backs for interviews and receive help from professors when they are at school. The fact that we would consider the question you asked to be a viable question about African Americans tells me that we have a clear stereotyping bias towards them to begin with. That means that a lot of the problems with enforcement are also problems with society and it is cyclical in nature as well.

    When do we look at black on black violence? NO one wants to hear about a killer cop when we kill each other over anything. Those cops will forever be looked as heroes for killing folks who hate themselves.
    This question strikes me as a red herring. It always has. Because the reason that that crime is happening often isn't directly associated with the color of their skin. The reason people are concerned with police officers and their bias in killing unarmed black men over armed white men (yeah, you're safer as an armed white man than an unarmed black man--think about that) is because there seems to be a statistically supported correlation to demonstrate a bias against African Americans by police officers. Meanwhile, if two people end up in a gang-related shoot-out for any number of reasons, how likely is it that it is because of their race that it happened. How likely is it that it was even a consideration, unconscious or not, when they killed each other or even committed an act of crime against them? The reason that these crimes are happening is not because of their racial identity--they're crimes of opportunity (or lack thereof) and communities where these things happen are likely to be victims of the sins of the past regarding segregation and, even, slavery. When race isn't a motivating factor, it seems disingenuous to call these crimes "black-on-black crime" rather than, simply, "crime in predominantly African American neighborhoods", which even seems to be putting an unnecessary amount of emphasis on the ethnic identity of those committing these crimes.

    finally it's hard to not be fearful if you are a cop because the MAIN ones getting killed or jumped are cops who have had NOTHING to do with the killing of black males.
    Agreed, being a cop is dangerous. No one is seriously saying that it isn't a dangerous position. I'm just saying that there are a lot of dangerous professions out there. The military, for example, consistently trains people not to shoot until fired upon. Why are the rules for engagement so much more lenient for attacking American citizens than they are for those going into active war zones filled with enemy combatants? We need to be doing a better job of holding police officers accountable for overreacting and acting poorly.

    What did the cops in Dallas who died have to do with Mike Brown, Alton Sterling, Gray, Castle and so on? Should you go after the folks who killed them? That's LOGIC.
    They didn't have anything to do with it. In fact, they were taking selfies with the BLM protesters. That's right--selfies. These were good cops doing their jobs. I would never have said that they "deserved" to die or even advocated for even a minimal act of violence against them. Nor would I advocate for acts of violence against the police officers that took the lives of those men. I do think, however, that our systems of justice have largely failed to hold those men accountable for their actions. That perpetuates a system of injustice and frankly emboldens bad cops to act like bad cops. Until they're continuously held accountable and fearful of acting irrationally, ethnic minorities will always have some good reason to distrust police officers. Because, while not all of them are bad, it doesn't really matter when my best friend had to be sat down to have the talk about how to deal with being stopped, especially for no real reason, by a police officer when he was thirteen when I never had to have a similar conversation. That's REALITY.
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  8. #77933
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Just wanna remind people, too, that crime in predominantly African American neighborhoods is at no higher a level than crime in predominantly white neighborhoods when the comparison controlled for poverty. But American policing has always been built on anti-Blackness like so much else in America.

    White fear of black bodies.

  9. #77934
    Incredible Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    I think it is very worrying that Trump still has not nominated an ambassador to Nambia.

  10. #77935
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    I think it is very worrying that Trump still has not nominated an ambassador to Nambia.
    Very worrying indeed.

  11. #77936
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Also, I wanna say Darman's post above is pretty damn great.

  12. #77937

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    I think it is very worrying that Trump still has not nominated an ambassador to Nambia.
    He's still trying to find this guy:
    X-Books Forum Mutant Tracker/FAQ- Updated every Tuesday.

  13. #77938
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    He's still trying to find this guy:
    Just follow the rose petals.

  14. #77939
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Report: Mueller Asks White House For Details On Comey Firing, Flynn Ouster

    According to the report, the special counsel has also asked for documents on how the White House responded to questions about a June 2016 meeting involving Trump’s son and a Russian lawyer. Meanwhile....

    **********

    George W. Bush’s Ethics Chief: This ‘May Be What Puts An End To This White House’

    Richard Painter, a former ethics chief in the George W. Bush White House, said the Robert Mueller investigation might come down to just one question: Why did Donald Trump fire James Comey as FBI director?

    If it turns out it was to block the Russia investigation, that would be obstruction, Painter said on MSNBC on Wednesday. And that, he predicted, would be the end of this administration.
    **********

    John McCain Can Stop This Health Care Bill

    But will he? I sure hope it'll be deja vu all over again. Meanwhile....

    **********

    Obama: It’s ‘Frustrating’ To Have To Convince Lawmakers Not To Inflict ‘Real Human Suffering’

    Former President Barack Obama said it’s “frustrating to have to mobilize” so often to keep lawmakers from repealing the Affordable Care Act.

    Speaking at a Gates Foundation event on Wednesday, Obama addressed a health care bill Republicans are trying to hurry through Congress that could have major ramifications for millions of people.

    “When I see people trying to undo that hard-earned progress for the 50th or 60th time, with bills that would raise costs or reduce coverage, or roll back protections for older Americans or people with pre-existing conditions ... for whom coverage would, once again, be almost unobtainable, it is aggravating,” Obama said. “And all of this being done without any demonstrable economic or actuarial or plain common-sense rationale, it frustrates.”
    Newsflash, Barack: As long as that law was put on the books by you, a black man, Republicans will never, and I repeat, NEVER stop trying to repeal it. Better get used to that. Meanwhile....

    **********

    Bill Cassidy Responds To Jimmy Kimmel By Doubling Down On The Dishonesty

    A new study details huge spending cuts and likely coverage losses. Well, dishonesty is what Republicans specialize in.

    **********

    Man Shot Dead By Oklahoma City Cop Was Deaf (UPDATED)

    Neighbors shouted at the officer that 35-year-old Magdiel Sanchez could not hear his commands. Was that cop deaf to those warnings, or did he just ignore them?
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

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