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  1. #103006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    However, it does mean that Democrats have been murky on their own preferences for this topic in the last few years. The DNC Vice-Chair wearing a shirt advocating for no borders does suggest it's a popular position, and no Republican made him do that.
    I disagree -- I think (or rather know) that's it's just more divisive politics and an attempt to paint the "left" as extremists when the Democratic party is far more moderate than the Republican party has been in decades.

    Again -- this is all rhetorical regardless: what you say on these boards is not what happens in reality with regards to the Republicans in office.

    The Republicans (like McConnell and Sessions) are not interested in bipartisanship -- they are interested in making their base happy and remaining in office. If that means demonizing immigration by lying about it's statistical effects on our nation then, just as with health care and climate change, lying is exactly what they will do.

    And if that means locking children up hundreds of miles away from their parents then that is what they will do as well.

    You can continue to defend that as you will but now the whole world is starting to realize that the problem isn't the "Americans" -- it's the Republican party.

    (Many already knew that anyway as most of them don't get their information from Fox News.)

    -----
    "EU Raises Stakes for Trump by Aiming Levies at GOP Heartland"

    "The European Union is preparing punitive tariffs on iconic U.S. brands produced in key Republican constituencies, raising political pressure on President Donald Trump to ditch his plan for taxing steel imports.

    Targeting 2.8 billion euros ($3.5 billion) of American goods, the EU aims to apply a 25 percent tit-for-tat levy on a range of consumer, agricultural and steel products imported from the U.S. if Trump follows through on his tariff threat, according to a list drawn up by the European Commission and obtained by Bloomberg News. The list of targeted U.S. goods -- including motorcycles, jeans and bourbon whiskey -- sends a political message to Washington about the potential domestic economic costs of making good on the president’s threat.

    Paul Ryan, Republican speaker of the House of Representatives, comes from the same state -- Wisconsin -- where motorbike maker Harley-Davidson Inc. is based. Earlier this week, Ryan said he was “extremely worried about the consequences of a trade war” and urged Trump to drop his tariff proposal..."

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...taliation-plan
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 07-09-2018 at 10:24 PM.

  2. #103007
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    sotrue.JPG


    Reminded of this.

  3. #103008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The selection of Merrick Garland was political posturing from a guy who wanted to change the composition of the Supreme Court at a time when the other party held the branch of government whose advice and consent is required. There were other ways Obama could have handled it. If he picked a Republican, Hillary would be President right now. If Hillary had pledged to nominate Merrick Garland, it would have made Republicans look petty.
    I had to single this out specifically -- the fact that you actually might believe something like this just further illuminates why our conversations are relatively useless in the end.

    Do you honestly think the modern Republican party would pick a Democratic justice under any circumstances? Really?

    You criticize Obama for allegedly "wanting to change the composition of the court" but remain hypocritically silent while Trump does exactly that as we speak -- where's your criticism when Republicans do the same -- or worse -- than the Democrats in matters of "bipartisanship" and integrity?

    Rarely if ever to be found -- which is why Trump is the perfect Republican president at this point.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 07-09-2018 at 10:31 PM.

  4. #103009
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    sotrue.JPG


    Reminded of this.
    So does this mean Mets is a right wing journalist?

  5. #103010
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The Democratic party had a two year window in which they held both houses of Congress and the White House, so their ability to get something done on immigration by themselves was limited. That was also eight years ago, and the party is in a different place (witness the popularity of arguments like Medicare for All, as well as the changing conversation on gay marriage.)

    I get that there are strategic advantages to being vague on a party's position on an issue. If Schumer were to say he thinks legal immigration should have a limit of three million people per year (it's currently at a bit over a million) that number won't be seen as a compromise; it'll be seen as the upper limit. If there is no number given, he might be able to the number he wants as the compromise choice.

    However, it does mean that Democrats have been murky on their own preferences for this topic in the last few years. The DNC Vice-Chair wearing a shirt advocating for no borders does suggest it's a popular position, and no Republican made him do that.

    I agree that Republicans are concerned that immigrants will vote for Democrats, and I would guess that a reason Democrats favor more immigration as well as a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants is the belief that it advantages them politically. There are other reasons to be wary about uncontrolled immigration, including cultural changes the country might not be ready for.

    What others might view as outrageous partisan behavior from Republicans, I view as hardball in response to similar stuff. If Obama had truly been bipartisan on health care reform, he could have split it into multiple bills, some of which would have gotten much more support.

    The selection of Merrick Garland was political posturing from a guy who wanted to change the composition of the Supreme Court at a time when the other party held the branch of government whose advice and consent is required. There were other ways Obama could have handled it. If he picked a Republican, Hillary would be President right now. If Hillary had pledged to nominate Merrick Garland, it would have made Republicans look petty.

    With the fact-checking, the willingness to increase border patrol in exchange for a path to citizenship doesn't mean Democrats want border patrol. Republicans would have gladly gone with a bill that just focused on border funding. A stated concern from conservative lawmakers is that the border wouldn't be secured until after a path to citizenship which would lead to new waves of illegal immigration.

    The main limitation suggested by any Democratic lawmaker was on whether green-card holders can sponsor adult children, although it's not clear anyone voted for that thinking it would pass, and it was part of a larger deal that allowed for a pathway to a sympathetic group of people who didn't come to the country through legal means.
    This whole post makes me wonder why you even come into this thread.

  6. #103011
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    https://twitter.com/Mikel_Jollett/st...48011155918848

    Donald Trump’s campaign manager IS IN JAIL.

    5 members of his campaign have PLEAD GUILTY to charges brought by the Mueller probe.

    And the media is acting like it’s perfectly normal that this obviously guilty man is going to NAME HIS OWN JUDGE.

    WAKE THE FUCK UP.

  7. #103012
    Rebel that Rebels BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    All Trump's SCOTUS pick did was confirm 45 is guilty.

    And 3 GOP Senators are no on him already.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  8. #103013
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    All Trump's SCOTUS pick did was confirm 45 is guilty.

    And 3 GOP Senators are no on him already.
    Crossing our fingers more will follow that lead.

  9. #103014
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    Crossing our fingers more will follow that lead.
    What GOP senators are no on him already?

  10. #103015
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    What GOP senators are no on him already?
    Yeah.

    Felt more like "Reply Hazy, Try Again" or "Better Not Tell You Now".

  11. #103016
    Incredible Member Mecegirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    There was recent discussion about Trump's dad's arrest in the 1920s.

    Honestly, I hadn't considered that a backlash against Trump's Pocahontas comments might be informed by Trump's outrageous and ridiculous claims against Obama, in the sense that it makes his comments seem immediately suspect. There's no point to arguing from authority when it comes to Trump (IE- using the fact that he says something to justify its validity) so my understanding of Warren's background isn't based on that at all. It's based on the fact-checkers.
    Your, or anyone's, understanding of Warren's background ain't got nothing to do with her policies tho. It also doesn't explain why Trump keeps bringing it up instead of what he doesn't like about her policy positions.

    The idea that Trump's dad might be in the KKK isn't what I meant by heritage...But sure let's roll with it. Considering that Trump himself holds racist views,and those racist views do effect his policies, digging into what his father may have done would explain how he attained said racist views.

  12. #103017
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Democrats Line Up Against Supreme Court Pick Brett Kavanaugh: ‘He Can’t Be Trusted’

    “President Trump has put reproductive rights and freedoms and health care protections for millions of Americans on the judicial chopping block.” Meanwhile....

    **********

    Mitch McConnell To Democrats: Treat Trump’s SCOTUS Pick ‘Fairly’

    This is the same guy who denied a hearing and a vote to President Barack Obama’s nominee, Merrick Garland. BWA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That's funny, Mitch! You should do stand-up! You're a natural!

    **********

    California Prosecutor Suspended After Vile Attack On Maxine Waters

    “You would think someone would have shot this b***h by now,” one Facebook comment from his account read. That guy (the prosecutor) should've been fired.

    **********

    Judge Rejects Trump Administration’s Plan To Allow Long-Term Detention Of Migrant Kids

    She turned down a motion to suspend a requirement of the Flores settlement to allow the government to keep kids in detention alongside their parents. Back to you, Dolt45.

    **********

    Moron Harangues Woman In Park For Wearing Puerto Rico Shirt In America

    Cook County officer who did nothing as confrontation continued is being investigated. This whole business is revolting. More of Trump's xenophobia at work.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  13. #103018
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    My prediction is that Murkowski and Collins will vote for him after he assures them he 'values precedent'. Roe won't get overturned directly, but the GOP will continue making it all but impossible to get an abortion, and we will lose the Supreme Court for 20-30 years and there will be no switch in time that'll save nine this time.

  14. #103019
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    More of the heinous effect of Trump's toxic xenophobia at work:

    91-year-old man beaten with brick, told 'go back to your own country'

    Tears glistened on the black and purple bruises covering 91-year-old Rodolfo Rodriguez's face as he described being attacked by a group of people while going for a walk on the Fourth of July.

    "I can't walk anymore," Rodriguez said in Spanish. "I'm in so much pain."

    He'll be turning 92 in September, Rodriguez said, and he's never been hurt like this before, in a life working the fields with cattle and corn.
    Rodriguez said he was walking to a nearby park on Wednesday when he passed a woman and a little girl. Without warning, the woman assaulted him, he said, hitting him with a concrete block and enlisting a group of men to join in beating him.

    "I didn't even bump into her kid," Rodriguez said. "I just passed her and she pushed me and she hit me until she was done."
    Misbel Borjas was driving by when she saw the woman hitting Rodriguez repeatedly in the head with a concrete block, she said.

    "I heard her saying, go back to your country, go back to Mexico," she told CNN by phone. "When I tried to videotape her with my cell phone, she threw that same concrete block, tried to hit my car."

    Police are looking for the woman and four men seen in Borjas' video, Robinson told KTLA.
    So, let's recap: a woman and four men ganged up on a NINETY-TWO year old man and beat him senseless while that deranged bitch said "Go back to your country, go back to Mexico". As it is, it's a miracle that poor man wasn't killed, given his age and the severity of the attack. Now, I want all the Trump lovers in this forum to justify this madness if you can, because his overt hatred of minorities, especially Hispanics, and near endless rhetoric demonizing them at almost every turn was certainly a factor behind this brutal and monstrous attack. I don't even want to consider the likelihood that Trump's campaign of hate against Hispanics might well have put a bullseye on their backs, giving lunatics like that woman an excuse to attack people with brown skin for no good reason. This makes me worry that one day, I might be walking down a street, minding my own business when I'm suddenly bushwhacked by some racist fuckwad who shouts at me, "Go back to your country, go back to Africa!" If anyone thinks that can't happen, you're either nave or delusional.
    Last edited by WestPhillyPunisher; 07-10-2018 at 04:04 AM.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  15. #103020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    This whole post makes me wonder why you even come into this thread.
    The argument that "Obama should have reached across the aisle more" speaks volumes about the level of rhetorical disconnect here -- had Obama tried to reach any further across the aisle during his tenure, he would have had to re-register himself as a Republican while still in office.



    McConnell said it himself: the Republican goal from the start was to make Obama a one-term president -- not to engage in "bipartisanship".

    Meanwhile, our current "president" continues to support dictators and despots over American ideals, while the Republicans for the most part continue to look the other way and pretend that it isn't happening -- many seem more concerned that Hillary might run again than that the head Republican in office is using the power of the presidency to help Putin achieve his goals.

    At what point do the Republicans in power put a stop to this kind of behavior -- before or after the Russians help them to steal another election?

    The answer is in the question: they won't because apparently many seem to think that betraying the values of America is fine, so long as it helps your party win in the end.

    -----
    "During a phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin in March, President Donald Trump reportedly sought to ease Putin's concerns that White House officials were trying to block a conversation between the two.

    After Putin mentioned that White House officials were trying to interfere, a person with direct knowledge of the conversation said that Trump told to Putin, "Those are stupid people; you shouldn't listen to them," The New York Times reported Monday.

    At the time, Trump ignored his national security advisers and congratulated Putin on what was widely believed to be a sham reelection victory. Trump had received a briefing with the instruction, "DO NOT CONGRATULATE."

    Trump had also invited Putin to the White House, which would be the first such visit since 2005, Kremlin aide Yury Ushakov said to Russian journalists in April.

    Trump has long admired Putin, and believes the US and Russia can be allies, according to multiple reports on his attitude toward Putin and his regime. The news about Trump's interaction with Putin comes ahead of a scheduled NATO summit in Brussels on Tuesday, and a planned one-on-one meeting with Putin in Finland next week.

    Democratic Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia described Trump's desire to make nice with Russia as "very problematic."

    "This administration seems to treat our allies as adversaries, and treat our adversaries, or potential adversaries, like their friends," Warner said to CNN on Monday. "[Trump] doesn't at least seem to reflect that what we share in common with our NATO allies is not only a common defense alliance, but we have a shared belief in rule of law. We have a shared belief in democracy."

    "Mr. Putin represents none of those values," Warner said. "Yet you see out of the president, constant acclaim."


    In addition to straining ties with NATO countries, Trump floated the idea of allowing Russia back into the Group of 7. In 2014, Russia's membership in what was formerly the G8 was revoked after it annexed Crimea.

    "Russia should be in this meeting," Trump said in June. "They should let Russia come back in, because we should have Russia at the negotiating table."

    This approach to diplomacy with Russia has foreign policy experts worried, particularly after Russia still stands accused of meddling with the 2016 US presidential election and being suspected of carrying out a deadly nerve-agent attack in the UK.

    "In normal times, a president of the United States would rally the allies, develop a unified approach, and go with a strengthened hand to negotiations with the president of Russia, rather than reducing his own leverage"
    former NATO deputy secretary general Alexander Vershbow said to The Times.

    SEE ALSO: Trump reportedly gave out his personal cell phone number to world leaders and US officials 'had no idea' he was making calls..."


    http://www.businessinsider.com/trump...-stupid-2018-7
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 07-10-2018 at 04:26 AM.

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