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  1. #16
    Veteran Member protege's Avatar
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    I think i'm gonna need a primer on exactly what henry did and why.

  2. #17
    Embrace the Fluff FluffyCyclopsRLZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazpocalapse View Post
    I think he may be under the influence of a different strain of Sublime. I have been thinking that Dark Beast found out about Sublime somewhere along the line and may have created a new type of ever evolving version of kick,the legacy virus,a agent that identifies the X-gene on a molecular level, and a agent that causes mutants not to be able to pass off the X-gene. I think the death of Dark Beast may be a clue.Dark Beast could have worked with any villian to create a virus and use it in concert with the mist.
    Sublime using Dark Beast to create a agent that changes the mists to harm mutants makes perfect sense.
    Oh, Sublime is Beast's ultimate get-out-jail-for-free card for sure.

    Still, it doesn't really explain Beast's raging rrrhate-on for Cyclops, does it? I mean, Sublime is canonically awesome at PR. Crazy!Bitter!Beast? Not so much.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bl00dwerK View Post
    There are several characters I used to like, back in the day, who are just jerks now. It's so awesome to read old issues and see how cool characters like Beast used to be...
    Beast and Iceman have both gone from firm favourites to X-Men I want nothing to do with. They have been written so horribly for the last few years. I don't know if they can even be redeemed now. Shame.

  4. #19
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Dunno about you guys but it was wonderful learning that the Inhumans poached him from the X-Books.

  5. #20
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    Its funny; beast is probably the only guy Avengers and X-Men fans can agree on in hating

  6. #21
    Veteran Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
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    It's not like the X-Men are trying very hard to send all the time travel characters back, Eva could do it in a second, I don't see how prosecuting Beast instead is all that helpful. And Cyclops may have just been bluffing, but he was still the one that decided to try to intimidate everyone, Beast is the only one that bought into it AND actually tried to change his mind instead of just arrest him again, since that worked out so great.

  7. #22
    Protect the weak. Darth Phoenix's Avatar
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    image.jpg

    He refused to accept Scott was right about Hope and all his attempts to restart mutants failing.

    Gulity the penalty is nutering to prevent futher douchness or Avenger enabling.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    It's not like the X-Men are trying very hard to send all the time travel characters back, Eva could do it in a second, I don't see how prosecuting Beast instead is all that helpful. And Cyclops may have just been bluffing, but he was still the one that decided to try to intimidate everyone, Beast is the only one that bought into it AND actually tried to change his mind instead of just arrest him again, since that worked out so great.
    Eva's powers are the definition of a loose canon. Also, Beast was just stroking his ego with the O5 stunt. How on earth is that the most obvious solution, the easiest solution or even the only solution? Why did time disruption even occur to him, much less the ability to actually act on it so callously?

  9. #24
    Mugga, please. xhx23x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Eva's powers are the definition of a loose canon. Also, Beast was just stroking his ego with the O5 stunt. How on earth is that the most obvious solution, the easiest solution or even the only solution? Why did time disruption even occur to him, much less the ability to actually act on it so callously?
    Yeah, the 05 mess is not a good defense at all. If anything it was proof-positive that his weirdo obsession with Cyclops's life has made him go nuts. I don't recall any point where he tried to engage Scott in an actual conversation that didn't start with him ranting and storming off with the last word. I supposed that Bendis wanted us to use the excuse that he was "dying" as a reason why he decided that it was the only solution but there's just no justifying it. Someone as smart as him should've known better.

    And really, as far as sending the 05 back goes, we all know they can't. If BoTA actually left us anything is that all time travel is allowed except the 05 going back, so I doubt that Eva or Magik or any other person will be able to send them back. They'll go back when the writers are bored with the gimmick.

  10. #25
    Veteran Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Eva's powers are the definition of a loose canon. Also, Beast was just stroking his ego with the O5 stunt. How on earth is that the most obvious solution, the easiest solution or even the only solution? Why did time disruption even occur to him, much less the ability to actually act on it so callously?
    Iceman was the one who all but suggested the idea. As for the ability to act on it, McCoy's timemachines were already built, he created them at Cyclops' request, prior to Messiah War. And Eva's powers are a loose canon yes, didn't stop her from bringing Xavier to the present from the past AFTER she went through the events that included someone telling her to put Beast on trail for his crimes.

    People are upset with Beast because he is being a enormous hypocrite when talking about genocide, myself included. But that at least can be explained as Bendis not paying attention to what previous writers did with these characters, never great to see but it's fact of life with comics that we deal with all the time. Eva does not even have that excuse.

  11. #26

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    I'm glad someone started this thread because I've been among Hank McCoy's most vocal critics since the days of Schism. More than any other character, he's gone out of his way to be the most arrogant, least likable character in all of X-men, if not all of Marvel, right now. He's built his entire persona around blaming Cyclops for everything. And for doing what? He saved the entire mutant species more than once. First, he saved Hope Summers during the Messiah Trilogy. Then, he was vindicated when the Phoenix restored the mutant race. At each turn, Beast criticized and belittled Cyclops to no end. And while there's nothing wrong with criticism, he destroyed his credibility when he offered no alternative. It's one thing to criticize, but to offer absolutely no recourse and no alternative is tantamount to whining. That's basically what Beast has done.

    Then there's this.

    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    If this were a real court of law and we were acting as a real jury, then this would be by far the most important piece of evidence. Hank McCoy flat out confesses, while in a state of heightened coherence no less, that he knew that what he did with the O5 was wrong. He knew it and did it anyways. This makes his crime a lot more egregious than anything Cyclops did. In any crime, intent and premediation matters. It's one thing to assault someone in the heat of the moment or while under the influence of mind-altering substances. But to knowingly do something unlawful while in a coherent state of mind is a lot more serious. That's why 1st degree murder, which includes premeditation, is punished much harsher than 2nd degree murder, which isn't premeditated.

    Now I'm not saying Cyclops didn't deserve criticism for what he did. But most of the crimes Beast accuses him of weren't premeditated. He never showed any intent to kill Charles Xavier and he never intended to get Nightcrawler and Cable killed in Second Coming. And when Sentinels were attacking during Schism, he basically made a decision in a difficult set of circumstances. He didn't have time to premeditate.

    Beast, however, did have time. Now I'm willing to grant him some leeway because his condition was dire when he went back in time to get the O5. But in Black Vortex, he admits he's still understood that it was wrong. He did it anyways. And with the testimony of the Watcher being more credible than most, I'd say that if I were a juror, I'd vote guilty.
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  12. #27
    Veteran Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post
    I'm glad someone started this thread because I've been among Hank McCoy's most vocal critics since the days of Schism. More than any other character, he's gone out of his way to be the most arrogant, least likable character in all of X-men, if not all of Marvel, right now. He's built his entire persona around blaming Cyclops for everything. And for doing what? He saved the entire mutant species more than once. First, he saved Hope Summers during the Messiah Trilogy. Then, he was vindicated when the Phoenix restored the mutant race. At each turn, Beast criticized and belittled Cyclops to no end. And while there's nothing wrong with criticism, he destroyed his credibility when he offered no alternative. It's one thing to criticize, but to offer absolutely no recourse and no alternative is tantamount to whining. That's basically what Beast has done.

    Then there's this.



    If this were a real court of law and we were acting as a real jury, then this would be by far the most important piece of evidence. Hank McCoy flat out confesses, while in a state of heightened coherence no less, that he knew that what he did with the O5 was wrong. He knew it and did it anyways. This makes his crime a lot more egregious than anything Cyclops did. In any crime, intent and premediation matters. It's one thing to assault someone in the heat of the moment or while under the influence of mind-altering substances. But to knowingly do something unlawful while in a coherent state of mind is a lot more serious. That's why 1st degree murder, which includes premeditation, is punished much harsher than 2nd degree murder, which isn't premeditated.

    Now I'm not saying Cyclops didn't deserve criticism for what he did. But most of the crimes Beast accuses him of weren't premeditated. He never showed any intent to kill Charles Xavier and he never intended to get Nightcrawler and Cable killed in Second Coming. And when Sentinels were attacking during Schism, he basically made a decision in a difficult set of circumstances. He didn't have time to premeditate.

    Beast, however, did have time. Now I'm willing to grant him some leeway because his condition was dire when he went back in time to get the O5. But in Black Vortex, he admits he's still understood that it was wrong. He did it anyways. And with the testimony of the Watcher being more credible than most, I'd say that if I were a juror, I'd vote guilty.
    Beast was upset with Cyclops ever since Cyclops left him to rot in torture prison of Osborn's design until Cyclops had manipulated Osborn into declaring Utopia independent. And yeah, Beast was there for the Messiah Trilogy, which consisted of Cyclops and his son applying timetravel to Hope in order to engineer a timeline more favourable for mutantkind. During AvX, Beast was the only Avenger (unless you count Reed Richards) that refuses to attack Cyclops sheerly for being a Phoenix and only rejoins the fight after the Avengers kidnapped Hope and made a peaceful outcome impossible.

    Anyway, Beast made plenty of mistakes, but the X-Men putting anyone on trail for the usage of timetravel is a tough sell for me. They all do it all the time. Bendis will have to write the heck out of this for me to feel it's believable.

  13. #28
    Veteran Member MikeMC005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    Beast was upset with Cyclops ever since Cyclops left him to rot in torture prison of Osborn's design until Cyclops had manipulated Osborn into declaring Utopia independent. And yeah, Beast was there for the Messiah Trilogy, which consisted of Cyclops and his son applying timetravel to Hope in order to engineer a timeline more favourable for mutantkind. During AvX, Beast was the only Avenger (unless you count Reed Richards) that refuses to attack Cyclops sheerly for being a Phoenix and only rejoins the fight after the Avengers kidnapped Hope and made a peaceful outcome impossible.

    Anyway, Beast made plenty of mistakes, but the X-Men putting anyone on trail for the usage of timetravel is a tough sell for me. They all do it all the time. Bendis will have to write the heck out of this for me to feel it's believable.
    not sure if its just time travel that he is "on trial" for. It is most likely his overall actions and recklessness in his decisions toward the X-Men and Mutant kind alike.
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  14. #29
    Embrace the Fluff FluffyCyclopsRLZ's Avatar
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    The Trial will be a travesty, lol. Bendis just wants Prof K to chew some more scenery before bailing on the x-ghetto. Folks shouldn't expect it to make much sense.

  15. #30
    Protect the weak. Darth Phoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    Beast was upset with Cyclops ever since Cyclops left him to rot in torture prison of Osborn's design until Cyclops had manipulated Osborn into declaring Utopia independent.
    I'm confused I thought Scott sent in Xforce pretty much as soon as Emma told him Osborn had Hank and that was before The Utopia battle and the Independance moment. Beast was proubily down stairs eating muffins during the battle recorvering.

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