Taking the example of Whoopi...she never once claimed to be speaking on behalf of all black people. Certainly as a famous actor and the host of a popular morning TV show, she has a platform to reach a ton of people, so her opinion can be seen as carrying more weight than the average person. But I don't think it makes her the spokesman of the black community. I'm sure some people might see it that way, but that's their choice, right?
I get what you're saying though. His presence in the team is due to him being a mutant, but then he rejects that label. It is a bit contradictory.
I like how the interracial romance between Peggy and Dr. Jason Wilkes is being handled in Season 2 of Agent Carter.
a) it's fair to say, based on Remender's reaction, Remender (a str8, white guy who doesn't have first hand knowledge of what it means to be a minority) didn't actually mean the speech to preach assimilation. Which means the speech is very flawed
b) Remender (a str8, white guy) when it was pointed out by actual minorities (who, it's fair to assume, have a little more knowledge on the subject through living it) why the speech is preaching assimilation, not unity; told people to drown in hobo piss. Which very much implies he doesn't actually think he has anything to learn about diversity (which he clearly does), nor does it imply he's willing to learn when the time comes.
Alex was on a team about mutant unity. As others have pointed out, no-one accepts that role as leader on a team designed to tackle the issues of mutant/human relations, by then spouting assimilation. It makes no sense. The speech was a failure because it wasn't intended to say what it did. It's that simple. While diversity of opinion is good, Remender was (through Alex) preaching something he didn't mean to preach (and patently didn't understand the nuances of). I would have LOVED IT if Remender understood the issue and was intentionally having Alex show his inexperience and ignorance, but he wasn't. He simply missed the mark, and then reacted VERY badly. And I don't think anyone on CBR will forget his meltdown over the next 10 years.
Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 02-06-2016 at 09:19 AM.
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So until comics fans start behaving with the same level of caution and respect, I'm willing to give the creators a little slack when it comes to that kind of stuff. They're people, too...and if "X-fan4life7613" can tell him in Twitter that his story "sucked te donkey ballz" then I don't blame him for lashing out.
Agreed that he overreacted, and I think once he realized the full situation he revised his stance and clarified things, as most reasonable folks would do. But I also think folks overreacted to his reaction.
But....this has all been covered before, and at length. I opened my comments by saying that Alex's speech was flawed, and I acknowledged that there is reasonable criticism of it.
Why I brought this up again after so long is that Whoopi Goldberg recently made a speech on the View, and the sentiments of the speech had a lot in common with Havok's/Remender's.
So I am curious how people view Whoopi's comments more so than reiterating how they feel about Alex's. What do you think about what she said? Is she preaching assimilation? Or maybe a lesser form of it? Is she a self hating Aftican-American? Or is she simply rejecting a label she doesn't feel accurately represents her? Is she perhaps callin for a change in the commonly accepted vernacular, as has happened many times over the years, for a variety of minorities.
Care to share your thoughts on that?
We live in REALITY.
A reality where anything dealing with blacks-OBAMA gets blamed. Any time a black male is arrested or killed-he's Obama's son-something I never heard said about Bush or any other white or even other minority groups.
Trolls have wanted someone to be the defacto black person that will take every blame and insult or represent why blacks are inferior or whatever.
DC has been trying that with Cyborg by getting rid of all the other blacks that we have grown up with.
Marvel to their credit have not done that.
And I don't think President Obama gets the blame for any negative things any black American does. I mean, I'm sure there are whack-jobs out there who like to say stuff like that, but it's far from a common opinion. Unless you mean that one specific instance of Trayvon Martin, where Obama said that it was upsetting because Trayvon "could have been his son"? Is that what you mean? If so, I don't know if I see that as a problem.
I'm not sure I'm following your point about DC, but that may be because I don't read any of their books anymore. Not DCU books anyway. So I have no idea what they're doing with Cyborg or almost any of their other characters, really.
DC's actually fixing some of the problems they had with nu52 Cyborg now under David Walker's writing. The comic isn't great but it's ok. Beyond the superhero aspects, we're seeing Cyborg's relationship with other african-americans. There's his relationship with Sarah. Plus his parents ( which we don't always see in comics)
Although Whoopi may have caped for some questionable persons, she grew up during the civil rights era and when push came to shove at least never denied or refused to be called black.
Unlike Raven Simone who doesn't want to be called black or gay...
You really need to go back and look up some of the things said about Bush and republican before 2008. Every person in Texas was compared to Bush, every republican was compared to a Nazi, Bush was drawn up as Hitler and his effigy has been burned or abused many times. Not to mention while Obama's daughters and Chelsea Clinton are always off limits Bush' daughters were portrayed as drug using boozed up whores during his time as president. Open your eyes.
You've already lost this argument due to hyperbole -- if anything, Obama has held his tongue on a lot of the racial nonsense that happens in this country, because I know for d@mn sure I would have called out the "birthers" and islamophobes and dirty cops for the racists they are YEARS ago if I were him.
You had people trying to drag Obama's PREACHER into the election process just to paint Obama as a racist -- and even that didn't stick... but that just shows how desperate people are to try to make him something that he is not.
So... Obama injected race into the struggle to give LGBT citizens the right to marry like every other American citizen?
Obama injected race into ensuring all citizens have the right to decent health care via the Affordable Care Act?
Obama injected race into extending unemployment benefits for the hundreds of thousands of people who lost their jobs during Bush's final year in office?
Obama injected race into promoting more government spending on programs such as NASA and increased military and veteran salary and health care benefits?
Obama injected race into making sure that women are given equal pay for equal work?
Obama has probably focused less on "black" issues than anything else during his tenure in office -- to the point where many prominent black people (Cornell West, Tavis Smiley, Ta-Neshi Coates, etc) have often criticized him for his lack of action on behalf of the millions of African-Americans who helped put him in office.
Obama's response: "I'm not the President of Black America."
Realistically speaking, Obama COULD "inject race" into the issues of health care, immigration, police brutality, higher unemployment rates for black people (even those who hold college degrees), the PROVEN racist and discriminatory predatory loan practices of major companies such as Toyota and Wells Fargo, the racist chants and attacks against black people we see on an almost monthly basis on our college campuses, the fact that white shooters are considered "rogues" with "mental issues" while black people and other people of color are branded as "thugs" and "terrorists" when they do the same, the de facto segregation we see in our schools and neighborhoods, often due to economic disenfranchisement and "redlining", the higher and longer incarceration rates of black people for committing the exact same crime as whites, etc, etc, etc...
...but he doesn't. In fact, he rarely even addresses said racial issues directly, because he knows that if he does, people like you will see that as "racism" while ignoring everything he has done for "non-blacks" throughout his Presidency.
I'm all for holding Obama accountable for what he does, but when you have to make up lies to find fault with ANYONE -- including the President -- that says a lot more about you than it does about them.
And... yeah, some people won't vote for him because he doesn't look like the people on the dollar bill -- that's just a fact -- but he also said that MOST Americans are smarter and better than that... and he was right.