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  1. #1636
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trident View Post
    You can try to discredit all the marvel films with diverse stars in them all you like but truth be told their are several kids and adults have a host of heroes to look to. Having them lead a film doesn't mean squat, especially if the film bombs. I also must say again if you honestly believe that Marvel gives to yucks about what DC is doing after they have made Billions of dollars over the past seven years you are fooling yourself. They will announce or not announce things when they are ready. They have zero reason to conform or break model. Why? Because they have a proven track record. So much of a proven record the competition is going through extreme work just to catch up.

    Only time will tell if their (WB/DC)haste will be there down fall but it seems more likely than not.
    I gotta respectfully disagree with this part. it definitely matters both positively and negatively. Having women and minority characters exist, but only as sidekicks or ensemble members sends a message however subtle that you think that these characters aren't quite "good" enuff to be star material. It both influences and reflects certain attitudes in the larger culture.

    But even from a strictly business/money aspect...at a time when movies like Frozen and Hunger Games can make money, and Think Like A Man and The Equalizer can make money...why wouldn't you want to take a chance on Hellcat or Brother Voodoo?

  2. #1637
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoov-E View Post
    Thought they meant Kamala Ms. Marvel but another Carol figure is cool and we get a Radioactive Man figure to boot

    I still smh at people who claim Psylocke as a asian woman, "we like asian women but more if there's a white woman's soul in that body"
    I was pumped if its was Kamala. That would have been a guaranteed buy.

  3. #1638

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trident View Post
    When it comes to how someone or some entity choose to spend their money there is no "right" or "wrong" thing. That idea is childish.

    But anyways....for the bold your right now they can usher in a new age of the MCU and the best part about it is that all of it is working just how Fiege said it would all the way back 2008. The guy has yet to be wrong or go back on anything he has presented to the public and I think we will be seeing certain diverse films, wether they deserve to be made or not, in the coming years. Which will make all this moaning and groaning seem silly.



    You can try to discredit all the marvel films with diverse stars in them all you like but truth be told their are several kids and adults have a host of heroes to look to. Having them lead a film doesn't mean squat, especially if the film bombs. I also must say again if you honestly believe that Marvel gives to yucks about what DC is doing after they have made Billions of dollars over the past seven years you are fooling yourself. They will announce or not announce things when they are ready. They have zero reason to conform or break model. Why? Because they have a proven track record. So much of a proven record the competition is going through extreme work just to catch up.

    Only time will tell if their (WB/DC)haste will be there down fall but it seems more likely than not.
    It does matter... and it matter's in more ways than just "representation".

    Imagine how different things might be if Bruce Lee had gotten the lead role in "Kung Fu" instead of being passed over because he was Asian -- this isn't just about being "fair" this is also about giving the best actors (and writers and directors, etc) the opportunity to tell the best stories possible.

    If "minority" actors never get the opportunity to lead in these films, then we'll never know what's possible.

    It's the same thing that happened in football and other competitive pursuits -- such as gymnastics, golf, boxing, and tennis -- once the doors were opened to new talent, the game was taken to a higher level.

    The same is already happening in Film (Frozen, Hunger Games, Equalizer, Lucy), yet some people are trying to act as if a successful minority-led Marvel film is some distant, possibly unachievable goal... which is ironic considering it was Blade who opened the doors in the first place.
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  4. #1639
    Senior Member Trident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    It does matter... and it matter's in more ways than just "representation".

    Imagine how different things might be if Bruce Lee had gotten the lead role in "Kung Fu" instead of being passed over because he was Asian -- this isn't just about being "fair" this is also about giving the best actors (and writers and directors, etc) the opportunity to tell the best stories possible.

    If "minority" actors never get the opportunity to lead in these films, then we'll never know what's possible.

    It's the same thing that happened in football and other competitive pursuits -- such as gymnastics, golf, boxing, and tennis -- once the doors were opened to new talent, the game was taken to a higher level.

    The same is already happening in Film (Frozen, Hunger Games, Equalizer, Lucy), yet some people are trying to act as if a successful minority-led Marvel film is some distant, possibly unachievable goal... which is ironic considering it was Blade who opened the doors in the first place.
    Lol

    Your putting entirely to much weight on these popcorn movies. The average person with correct emotional and mental balance isn't going to hold his dream or his success on wether or not a female or minority are leading in a superhero film. And even if there were a few people who would do something like that their are already numerous films that have proven it can be done.

    All what you said and my response is besides the point anyway. My point is the diverse characters marvel has use in their films shouldn't be discredited because they were portrayed in a outstanding manner in each film . To continually try to down play that to prove some false point of worth is not only weak but demonstrates a level of immaturity. My point is also that so far Marvel Studios has paid the ground work so several characters, both diverse and non-diverse, can be made and not only just made by them. Just because it isn't happening on your (posters on this board) personal time frame of how it should be doesn't make their accomplishment any less valid or that they should break plan just for the sake of overly PC.

    In a lot of ways what Marvel Studios has done and is doing has been what comic fans has always wanted since they toddlers. Not only that but they have made the genre as a whole more appealing. No longer are comics or superheroes some taboo fetish to the majority of people. They did this also while adding diversity to several movies that had none originally. People can lie through their teeth all day and say Falcon, Black Widow ect had lame roles and bad representation but the majority of fans loved them and want more. Anyway to make a long post shorter....the ground work need to be laid before marvel could take larger risk on characters that have little to no track record of sales (the short sighted will bring up GoTG here but they should think harder on the formula they used for that)like it or not back in 2008 and movie forward minority and female led books had a lower sales and they weren't as popular as they are today. The simple truth several refuse to acknowledge is that the minority and female character gained popularity largely due to the films. They were the ones bringing in larger numbers of females and minorities into the comic world to create more demand so that we now have a host of female lead books and minority staring characters.

    When Marvel starts slipping up or they don't follow through then people have a right to worry or start complaining. However, right now it's pointless. Everything is working like Fiege said it would and pretty soon like he said it would a couple of diverse characters will be staring in their own films. So far the plan has worked on all sides, sit back , relax and jus try to enjoy it. Essh

  5. #1640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trident View Post
    Lol

    Your putting entirely to much weight on these popcorn movies. The average person with correct emotional and mental balance isn't going to hold his dream or his success on wether or not a female or minority are leading in a superhero film. And even if there were a few people who would do something like that their are already numerous films that have proven it can be done.

    All what you said and my response is besides the point anyway. My point is the diverse characters marvel has use in their films shouldn't be discredited because they were portrayed in a outstanding manner in each film . To continually try to down play that to prove some false point of worth is not only weak but demonstrates a level of immaturity. My point is also that so far Marvel Studios has paid the ground work so several characters, both diverse and non-diverse, can be made and not only just made by them. Just because it isn't happening on your (posters on this board) personal time frame of how it should be doesn't make their accomplishment any less valid or that they should break plan just for the sake of overly PC.

    In a lot of ways what Marvel Studios has done and is doing has been what comic fans has always wanted since they toddlers. Not only that but they have made the genre as a whole more appealing. No longer are comics or superheroes some taboo fetish to the majority of people. They did this also while adding diversity to several movies that had none originally. People can lie through their teeth all day and say Falcon, Black Widow ect had lame roles and bad representation but the majority of fans loved them and want more. Anyway to make a long post shorter....the ground work need to be laid before marvel could take larger risk on characters that have little to no track record of sales (the short sighted will bring up GoTG here but they should think harder on the formula they used for that)like it or not back in 2008 and movie forward minority and female led books had a lower sales and they weren't as popular as they are today. The simple truth several refuse to acknowledge is that the minority and female character gained popularity largely due to the films. They were the ones bringing in larger numbers of females and minorities into the comic world to create more demand so that we now have a host of female lead books and minority staring characters.

    When Marvel starts slipping up or they don't follow through then people have a right to worry or start complaining. However, right now it's pointless. Everything is working like Fiege said it would and pretty soon like he said it would a couple of diverse characters will be staring in their own films. So far the plan has worked on all sides, sit back , relax and jus try to enjoy it. Essh
    Just to throw it out there, positive role models are important to everyone real life and in fiction. People from all walks of life will say so. Even if it's an a silly action movie, it still matters cuz it affects culture.

    I don't think most people are suggesting that BW, Falc or Fury were lame, I think it's just the oppose. People like those characters and are like, "Why are you talking about maybe Iron Man 4 and not giving us more of these guys?" And you're right when you say the movies and TV shows have brought minorities and women to these characters which is even more of a reason to feature them as solo stars. Sure, Widow has never been a top ten comic, but that's irrelevant cuz it's been proven that you can have a hit movie based on an obscure comic, not only by GoTG, but by half a dozen other things from Men in Black to Blade to Two Guns. It might be a risk, but is it fundamentally more of a risk than any number of new creations?

    I think maybe one major perspective where we might not see exactly eye to eye is the idea that Marvel has a precise and meticulous plan that they shouldn't deviate from. My view is that their plan is actually pretty fluid and they've changed it all along. From the Ant Man movie not coming out before Avengers to shelving Runaways to capitalize from the Avengers franchise to a number of things that they just couldn't get off the ground. If the general public ( forget comics fans ) are asking to see certain types of characters in their live action projects, why wouldn't Marvel at least consider it?

  6. #1641
    Senior Member Myetche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    And Disney actually has done Big Hero 6 as an animated movie. So Disney actually is interested in using some of Marvel's more diverse characters.
    Except Disney would rather trample all over Marvel's established story for BH6 and do their own thing with it.
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  7. #1642
    Senior Member Tiamatty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trident View Post
    People can lie through their teeth all day and say Falcon, Black Widow ect had lame roles and bad representation but the majority of fans loved them and want more.
    Exactly. Audiences want more. So when will Marvel actually give them more? Where's the Black Widow movie? Where's the Black Panther movie? Where's the Captain Marvel movie? Why the hell is Dr. Strange getting a movie before a single female or minority character gets one?

    Anyway to make a long post shorter....the ground work need to be laid before marvel could take larger risk on characters that have little to no track record of sales
    And the ground work's been laid. So when do they follow through? When do they make movies with female and minority leads? Why won't they just say, "Captain Marvel in 2017, Black Panther in 2018"? Or, hell, why won't they say, "There will be female- and minority-led films released prior to Avengers 3"? Are they going to be released before Avengers 3? How long are they going to make audiences wait for movies that you've acknowledged there's a demand for?

    When Marvel starts slipping up or they don't follow through then people have a right to worry or start complaining. However, right now it's pointless. Everything is working like Fiege said it would and pretty soon like he said it would a couple of diverse characters will be staring in their own films. So far the plan has worked on all sides, sit back , relax and jus try to enjoy it. Essh
    As far as I'm concerned, they're already failing to follow through. Feige hasn't actually said shit-all in regards to female- and minority-led movies. He's said there's a demand for them, he's said they "want" to make them, but he's given no indication of when people can actually expect them to be made. You may be content to just assume they have it planned. I'm not. I refuse to just assume they're going to do it sooner rather than later, and I refuse to wait until later for them to get around to it. And I don't think anyone else should, either. I think we need to keep the pressure on them. I think we need to keep asking them, "Hey, when are you actually going to get around to making these films?" We can't let them appease us with empty platitudes about "wanting" to do it. We have to make it clear to them that we're not going to accept excuses, and that they need to make female- and minority-led films, and they need to do it sooner rather than later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myetche View Post
    Except Disney would rather trample all over Marvel's established story for BH6 and do their own thing with it.
    So? Movies are seldom a straight adaptation of the comics. Big Hero 6 looks like a lot of fun. It looks like a good movie, and it has, as its lead, a character who isn't white. It has multiple non-white characters in the core cast.

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