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  1. #61
    Senior Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    The story doesn't demand they be tried at the same time. That appears to be your personal demand. Which I guess is fine to have, but that doesn't equate to a writing mistake or sloppy writing. Its not sloppy, its simply plotting in accommodation for a story that takes place over more than one book and more than one writer. Which kinda happens all the time in comics these days. I can understand if that's not everyone's cup of tea but there's not many mediums of on-going storytelling where plots aren't drawn out for one reason or another.

    If any mistake is being made, its making anything and everything in this story revolve around Lois and call foul when the progress of the beats do not benefit her. That seems to be where this gripe is born from at least, it sounds like you want Superman's problem taken care of and out of the way in the least amount of pages possible so everyone turns their eye to Lois. But that's just not going to happen. This is Superman's story, not Lois's. She's a part of it, not the star.
    My concerns are not about Lois. I'm not asking for her to be the star, and nothing of what I've said has anything to do with that. This back and forth is about Hessia and Diana for god's sake, and going by what I saw in SM/WW #9, Soule has no problem showing Superman express immediate concern for Lois despite everything he's going through. Seems Diana's flaw of single-mindedness means she can't even do the bare minimum to attend to a situation that doesn't involve her boyfriend. In short, I'm talking about Wonder Woman's characterization. I hate her looking careless and stupid. Your excuses don't work for me, and I think my personal demands for non-sloppy writing that leads to good characterization for Wonder Woman are reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lax View Post
    I think you're jumping the gun on this.

    Doctors/scientists don't like unknown variables. Doctors will often stress how important it is to tell them what drugs you're taking because they need to know if it will adversely affect whatever it is they have in mind for the patient.

    That's just science, magic is a complete unknown for them so it would make sense not to introduce such a wild card until afterward.

    Superman tried it his way, it didn't work, now it's Wonder Woman's turn.
    I did not suggest both science and magic should have been tried at the same time, as in simultaneously, but questioned why it wasn't part of an overall treatment plan; the way it's presented it was a last minute decision of Diana's. So, I criticized Wonder Woman for not retrieving Hessia or sending for her sooner so that she would have been available immediately if Clark's scientific treatment didn't work. The way the story was structured, Diana didn't even think of Hessia until after Superman broke out of the lab.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    Totally agree.

    Diana didn't want to bring in Hessia, sit back and watch as Luthor mocks and ridicules her at every turn for her "magic healing stone," and worry constantly about Clark getting the treatment he needs. If I were Diana, I'd also be worried about Luthor trying to steal the purple gem. I'd also be worried about letting Luthor know about Hessia, because that's giving him one of my loved ones to target when he forces me and the rest of the League to bow down to him for two years.

    Clark had three of the most brilliant scientists in the world trying to cure him. There was no reason to assume that they would fail, so Diana held something back in reserve. Now that they've failed, it's time to step outside of science's domain. Enter Hessia.
    What about having Hessia on hand suggests that she would need to be in the lab? I'm talking about having her nearby, which is a lot closer than in London. A private conversation between Hessia and Diana while Clark was in the lab during which Diana consulted with Hessia for a second opinion would have been a fine way of demonstrating that Wonder Woman was being proactive.
    Last edited by misslane; 06-11-2014 at 10:21 AM.

  2. #62
    Senior Member BlackFeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    My concerns are not about Lois. I'm not asking for her to be the star, and nothing of what I've said has anything to do with that. This back and forth is about Hessia and Diana for god's sake, and going by what I saw in SM/WW #9, Soule has no problem showing Superman express immediate concern for Lois despite everything he's going through. Seems Diana's flaw of single-mindedness means she can't even do the bare minimum to attend to a situation that doesn't involve her boyfriend. In short, I'm talking about Wonder Woman's characterization. I hate her looking careless and stupid. Your excuses don't work for me, and I think my personal demands for non-sloppy writing that leads to good characterization for Wonder Woman are reasonable.



    I did not suggest both science and magic should have been tried at the same time, as in simultaneously, but questioned why it wasn't part of an overall treatment plan; the way it's presented it was a last minute decision of Diana's. So, I criticized Wonder Woman for not retrieving Hessia or sending for her sooner so that she would have been available immediately if Clark's scientific treatment didn't work. The way the story was structured, Diana didn't even think of Hessia until after Superman broke out of the lab.



    What about having Hessia on hand suggests that she would need to be in the lab? I'm talking about having her nearby, which is a lot closer than in London. A private conversation between Hessia and Diana while Clark was in the lab during which Diana consulted with Hessia for a second opinion would have been a fine way of demonstrating that Wonder Woman was being proactive.
    She was proactive. She went with Batman to the Phantom Zone. They were already searching for a cure in another way, and she was already dubious that Lex wanted to help Clark. Then Clark escaped, and she thought to call Hessia, who, though, if you remember from issue 7, was not even sure she could help Clark, since he was a kryptonian and she didnít know anything about his physiology. Dr Veritas and the other scientists, instead, knew about him, so, I don't see anything wrong to first let try the ones who knew him. When that didn't work, and the informations they had gained from the Phantom Zone and who they found there had not given a result yet, she called Hessia.

    For Clark being in the lab, consider also that the "killing field" had started to manifest, and only there they had the way to contain it.



    Edit: if we want to continue to talk about also what happened in issue 9 and was not in the preview, I think it is time to start a Superman/Wonder 9 spoiler thread, guys...
    Last edited by BlackFeath; 06-11-2014 at 11:01 AM.
    "Sometimes, it's best not to be who we are...but who we aspire to be". (Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman #23)

  3. #63
    Senior Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    My concerns are not about Lois. I'm not asking for her to be the star, and nothing of what I've said has anything to do with that. This back and forth is about Hessia and Diana for god's sake, and going by what I saw in SM/WW #9, Soule has no problem showing Superman express immediate concern for Lois despite everything he's going through. Seems Diana's flaw of single-mindedness means she can't even do the bare minimum to attend to a situation that doesn't involve her boyfriend. In short, I'm talking about Wonder Woman's characterization. I hate her looking careless and stupid. Your excuses don't work for me, and I think my personal demands for non-sloppy writing that leads to good characterization for Wonder Woman are reasonable.
    Diana doesn't look careless and stupid for assuming that three brilliant scientists wielding undreamed-of technology should be able to solve this problem. Nor does that qualify as sloppy writing.

    Hessia has a life of her own to live. Why pull her away from it until it becomes clear that she will be needed?


    I did not suggest both science and magic should have been tried at the same time, as in simultaneously, but questioned why it wasn't part of an overall treatment plan; the way it's presented it was a last minute decision of Diana's. So, I criticized Wonder Woman for not retrieving Hessia or sending for her sooner so that she would have been available immediately if Clark's scientific treatment didn't work. The way the story was structured, Diana didn't even think of Hessia until after Superman broke out of the lab.
    Because until after Clark broke out of the lab, it wasn't yet certain that science had failed. They were still trying to fix him, then he hulked up suddenly and broke out.

    The next time we see Diana? She's got Hessia with her, ready to help out. She called her in once it became clear that science wasn't going to work here. She did it exactly the way she should have.

    What about having Hessia on hand suggests that she would need to be in the lab? I'm talking about having her nearby, which is a lot closer than in London. A private conversation between Hessia and Diana while Clark was in the lab during which Diana consulted with Hessia for a second opinion would have been a fine way of demonstrating that Wonder Woman was being proactive.
    Diana has superspeed. She can retrieve Hessia from London in a matter of minutes. A private conversation between Diana and Hessia would've eaten up pages that could have been used to actually develop the story of Superman succumbing to the infection again. Diana and Hessia having a chat doesn't serve the story in any meaningful way at that juncture. I remind you, today's comics have a whopping twenty pages in which to tell their stories.

    Also? I'm sorry, but if you're going to get upset every time every hero doesn't bring their entire supporting cast/arsenal to bear on every single problem that they encounter, then you're going to be upset more often than not.

    Superman has an arsenal of Kryptonian technology at his disposal. Does he carry every handy gadget with him at all times? Why doesn't he just build a portable Phantom Zone Gun and just zap powerful enemies straight into the Phantom Zone at the onset of every battle? Why doesn't he sun dip before every battle? Shouldn't he fight at his maximum power? And do we even need to TALK about all the times he seems to conveniently forget he has enough superspeed to annihilate almost any enemy before said enemy can even react to him?

    Why didn't Diana call in Hessia right away? Heck, why stop there? Why didn't she ask APOLLO for a favor? He is associated with medicine after all. Heck, he has a son named Asclepius, who is the God of Healing. Why didn't Diana call him in? How 'bout Hera? Diana's tight with her right now, and she seems like she can do just about anything she wants to do.

    Heroes almost NEVER call in every resource they've got because A) there's not enough time to show all of that, B) the story would be resolved in about two seconds and kiss drama and story development goodbye, and C) seeing a hero call in everyone in their universe to deal with every problem would get boring and repetitive.

    Heck, for all you know, Diana DID call Hessia right away. Maybe Hessia was out. Away from her phone. Maybe Diana left her a voicemail, and Hessia only responded after Clark broke out of the lab. Maybe Hessia WAS in the room next door to Superman's lab and she simply took no part in the experiments or Clark's escape. Explanations abound. Explanations that do NOT include branding Diana "careless and stupid" for not calling upon every resource she has at once.
    Last edited by Vanguard-01; 06-11-2014 at 11:19 AM.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  4. #64
    Senior Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackFeath View Post
    She was proactive. She went with Batman to the Phantom Zone. They were already searching for a cure in another way, and she was already dubious that Lex wanted to help Clark. Then Clark escaped, and she thought to call Hessia, who, though, if you remember from issue 7, was not even sure she could help Clark, since he was a kryptonian and she didn’t know anything about his physiology. Dr Veritas and the other scientists, instead, knew about him, so, I don't see anything wrong to first let try the ones who knew him. When that didn't work, and the informations they had gained from the Phantom Zone and who they found there had not given a result yet, she called Hessia.
    All I know is that if someone I loved was sick, his sickness had the potential to put all the world at risk, and the one solution that's being attempted is one I don't trust because it's being led by a potential Judas (Lex), then I would have made sure I had any help I could think of available to me.

    For Clark being in the lab, consider also that the "killing field" had started to manifest, and only there they had the way to contain it.
    I did not suggest Clark be removed from the lab. I'm arguing that Hessia should have been on call in the event that the lab ceased to be a viable solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    Diana doesn't look careless and stupid for assuming that three brilliant scientists wielding undreamed-of technology should be able to solve this problem. Nor does that qualify as sloppy writing.
    It does if you understand that Diana is a creature of myth and magic who believes in the efficacy of unscientific methods. Religious people, for example, don't pray for the sick only when science fails.

    Hessia has a life of her own to live. Why pull her away from it until it becomes clear that she will be needed?
    Hessia's private life is more important than Clark and the world?

    Because until after Clark broke out of the lab, it wasn't yet certain that science had failed. They were still trying to fix him, then he hulked up suddenly and broke out.
    And it would have been nice if Hessia was right there waiting in the wings when this occurred rather than in London. At least if Diana had called on Hessia ahead of time, she would have had more time to devise a game plan and a cure rather than pulling something together in a last minute crisis situation.

    The next time we see Diana? She's got Hessia with her, ready to help out. She called her in once it became clear that science wasn't going to work here. She did it exactly the way she should have.
    The next time we see Diana she's talking to Lana on the phone while watching the news.

    Diana has superspeed. She can retrieve Hessia from London in a matter of minutes. A private conversation between Diana and Hessia would've eaten up pages that could have been used to actually develop the story of Superman succumbing to the infection again. Diana and Hessia having a chat doesn't serve the story in any meaningful way at that juncture. I remind you, today's comics have a whopping twenty pages in which to tell their stories.
    The Diana/Lana phone conversation didn't eat up that many pages (2 pages). The Diana/Lois conversation in Superman/Wonder Woman #8 took up two panels. A simple voice mail left for Hessia that tells her she's leaving Clark in lab with scientist while she investigates the Phantom Zone and could she please think of ways to help Clark that everyone else may have overlooked would have sufficed.

    Also? I'm sorry, but if you're going to get upset every time every hero doesn't bring their entire supporting cast/arsenal to bear on every single problem that they encounter, then you're going to be upset more often than not.
    But Diana did bring in her supporting cast on this problem; she just did it late.

    Superman has an arsenal of Kryptonian technology at his disposal. Does he carry every handy gadget with him at all times? Why doesn't he just build a portable Phantom Zone Gun and just zap powerful enemies straight into the Phantom Zone at the onset of every battle? Why doesn't he sun dip before every battle? Shouldn't he fight at his maximum power? And do we even need to TALK about all the times he seems to conveniently forget he has enough superspeed to annihilate almost any enemy before said enemy can even react to him?
    Superman doesn't do any of that because he has to understand his enemy before he resorts to extreme measures. He rarely knows what he's going up against before it's imperative for him to act, and he doesn't want to overreact. Having a magic healer on call while a known danger is in stable condition is not analogous.

    Why didn't Diana call in Hessia right away? Heck, why stop there? Why didn't she ask APOLLO for a favor? He is associated with medicine after all. Heck, he has a son named Asclepius, who is the God of Healing. Why didn't Diana call him in? How 'bout Hera? Diana's tight with her right now, and she seems like she can do just about anything she wants to do.
    Hessia is more of a friend to Diana than Apollo, I believe. If Hera could help, then I am curious if Diana would have consulted her.

    Heroes almost NEVER call in every resource they've got because A) there's not enough time to show all of that, B) the story would be resolved in about two seconds and kiss drama and story development goodbye, and C) seeing a hero call in everyone in their universe to deal with every problem would get boring and repetitive.
    The story wouldn't have been resolved because Hessia couldn't help. Moreover, isn't the above point made moot the second the story does actually call in Hessia as a resource? I wouldn't expect a hero to call in everyone in their universe to deal with every problem, but I would expect relevant supporting characters to deal with relevant problems. Hessia is a healer. Clark is sick.

    Heck, for all you know, Diana DID call Hessia right away. Maybe Hessia was out. Away from her phone. Maybe Diana left her a voicemail, and Hessia only responded after Clark broke out of the lab. Maybe Hessia WAS in the room next door to Superman's lab and she simply took no part in the experiments or Clark's escape. Explanations abound. Explanations that do NOT include branding Diana "careless and stupid" for not calling upon every resource she has at once.
    Showing this on the page in a panel or two would do just the trick to exculpate Diana from any accusations of carelessness. Even a line from Hessia to Diana in this preview where she apologizes for being out when she first called would have been fine.
    Last edited by misslane; 06-11-2014 at 11:50 AM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    "Let's talk.............While the infection raging within you could flare up again at any moment and cause you to slaughter ten city blocks before you get it under control."

    Yeah. Doesn't work so good, does it? The science boys didn't just have treatments they could try, they also had a cell that should at least have a chance of keeping SuperDoom restrained and away from people. I don't think Hessia has a magical dungeon lying around for just this kind of situation.

    It was Clark's choice to make and it was the most expedient choice to get him off the streets and into a holding facility.
    sm and ww never talk about anything, she just do what he ask. it's a really unbalanced relationship.

    he was calm, she could have said that Hessia proabably had the best solution. put him in the military and brings hessia quickly.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    It does if you understand that Diana is a creature of myth and magic who believes in the efficacy of unscientific methods. Religious people, for example, don't pray for the sick only when science fails.
    She does, however, respect Superman's opinion. And he apparently wanted to try science before magic. I remind you that Superman is NOT comfortable around magic.

    Hessia's private life is more important than Clark and the world?
    Clark was contained. There was no immediate threat to the world. And there was every chance the scientists were going to solve the problem anyway, so why pull Hessia away from her life when it may turn out that she was completely unneeded?

    The next time we see Diana she's talking to Lana on the phone while watching the news.
    Diana was calling Clark and got her call routed to Lana's phone. She was watching the news to try to FIND Clark. She wasn't lounging on the couch eating potato chips.

    The Diana/Lana phone conversation didn't eat up that many pages (2 pages). The Diana/Lois conversation in Superman/Wonder Woman #8 took up two panels. A simple voice mail left for Hessia that tells her she's leaving Clark in lab with scientist while she investigates the Phantom Zone and could she please think of ways to help Clark that everyone else may have overlooked would have sufficed.
    Most writers tend to think that fans would rather see big action and real story development, rather than a scene of a hero checking off every possible solution on a checklist.

    Diana's not an idiot. The best writers don't feel the need to spoon-feed us every detail and trust us to assume that Diana already did everything she could do by the time the story picks up.

    But Diana did bring in her supporting cast on this problem; she just did it late.
    As far as you know. Once again, I choose to believe that Diana did everything she could because she isn't stupid.

    Superman doesn't do any of that because he has to understand his enemy before he resorts to extreme measures. He rarely knows what he's going up against before it's imperative for him to act, and he doesn't want to overreact. Having a magic healer on call while a known danger is in stable condition is not analogous.
    You're still asking why Diana didn't have every possible resource on hand at any given moment. Superman doesn't have all of HIS resources at hand at every given moment either. No hero does. Not even Batman.

    Hessia is more of a friend to Diana than Apollo, I believe. If Hera could help, then I am curious if Diana would have consulted her.
    Hessia's more of a friend. Apollo, however, has "Divine Healing" on his resume. He may not be friendly but he can be reasoned with. Heck, if Diana thought he could help, she would be willing to full-on grovel before him in order to secure his aid.

    Hera? So, now you want to see Diana A) call in Hessia, B) grovel before Apollo, begging for his aid, and C) consulting with Hera. You really don't see how much page space this is going to take up?

    The story wouldn't have been resolved because Hessia couldn't help. Moreover, isn't the above point made moot the second the story does actually call in Hessia as a resource? I wouldn't expect a hero to call in everyone in their universe to deal with every problem, but I would expect relevant supporting characters to deal with relevant problems. Hessia is a healer. Clark is sick.
    Hessia may have been able to help. The only problem is she decided to offer a different kind of help. It remains to be seen if the Purple Healing Gem, or any of Hessia's other methods may have been able to help. She just decided to eliminate the threat altogether. How smart that was remains an open question.

    She was there when the story needed her to be there. That's what counts.

    Showing this on the page in a panel or two would do just the trick to exculpate Diana from any accusations of carelessness. Even a line from Hessia to Diana in this preview where she apologizes for being out when she first called would have been fine.
    Or Soule could just let us trust that he doesn't think Diana's an idiot and that she did what she could with what she had to work with. That stuff wasn't essential to the story, so we are left to fill in the blanks ourselves.

    Frankly, I welcome writers to do this more often. It let's me think about the book I'm reading instead of having every possible detail spoon-fed to me as though I weren't smart enough to draw my own conclusions. Azz does the same thing in Diana's own book: he doesn't answer every question and he doesn't point out every little plot point. He trusts you to interpret the story your way.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  7. #67
    Senior Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    sm and ww never talk about anything, she just do what he ask. it's a really unbalanced relationship.
    Your opinion. Not anyone else's. And this just further proves that every word you say about this book is just tainted by your own bias.

    he was calm,
    Right at that moment. He could feel the infection trying to take over again. He could've gone out of control at any second, so having him go with the people who were ALREADY prepared to deal with him makes sense.

    she could have said that Hessia proabably had the best solution. put him in the military and brings hessia quickly.
    And maybe Clark said that he doesn't trust magic and didn't want it anywhere near him. Should Diana shove Hessia's gem down his throat?
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    Your opinion. Not anyone else's. And this just further proves that every word you say about this book is just tainted by your own bias.



    Right at that moment. He could feel the infection trying to take over again. He could've gone out of control at any second, so having him go with the people who were ALREADY prepared to deal with him makes sense.



    And maybe Clark said that he doesn't trust magic and didn't want it anywhere near him. Should Diana shove Hessia's gem down his throat?
    I read many comic books with relationship, "blue is the warmest color" strangers in paradise, thay all had conflicts that was solves with some discussions. smww just come as cold, not resembling in any way a good relationship.

    they weren't prepared. they don't even have anything close to a cure for him.

    Clark has to stop being a cry baby and trust in WW

  9. #69
    Senior Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    they weren't prepared. they don't even have anything close to a cure for him.
    ......And Hessia had a "Cure Doomsday Poisoning" potion just lying around in her pantry?

    The science guys were prepared because they at least had somewhere to HOLD Superman while they tried to find a cure for him.

    So, the science guys have a holding facility and the means to analyze his condition and find a cure. Hessia has NO holding facility and no certainty of being able to come up with a cure.

    Yeah, I'd go with the science guys too.

    Clark has to stop being a cry baby and trust in WW
    Magic is one of the few things in the universe that he has real reason to fear. Shoving it down his throat isn't going to make him like or trust it any better.

    It's not about trusting Diana or being a cry baby. It's about him choosing the treatment methods that he actually TRUSTS and has reason to believe will actually work for him.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  10. #70
    Senior Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    ......And Hessia had a "Cure Doomsday Poisoning" potion just lying around in her pantry?
    Wonder Woman seemed to think Hessia had some sort of means to help, otherwise why would she involve her at all in this?

    The science guys were prepared because they at least had somewhere to HOLD Superman while they tried to find a cure for him.
    If being prepared and having a place to hold Superman is paramount to any form of effective treatment, then why was Wonder Woman's fail-safe strategy to bring an Amazon healer to a completely untamed Superman?

    So, the science guys have a holding facility and the means to analyze his condition and find a cure. Hessia has NO holding facility and no certainty of being able to come up with a cure.
    Then what was the point of involving Hessia at all now?

    Yeah, I'd go with the science guys too.
    Except for Wonder Woman who seems to believe Hessia can accomplish what the scientists could not.

    Magic is one of the few things in the universe that he has real reason to fear. Shoving it down his throat isn't going to make him like or trust it any better.
    No one has advocated magic be shoved down Superman's throat, although I'm not sure if that wasn't exactly what Diana was hoping Hessia would do in this issue.

    It's not about trusting Diana or being a cry baby. It's about him choosing the treatment methods that he actually TRUSTS and has reason to believe will actually work for him.
    Was Superman really in a state of mind to be able to be involved in his own treatment planning? Moreover, since we didn't see Clark reject a magic cure, it's impossible to say whether he would have endorsed it or not.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    Wonder Woman seemed to think Hessia had some sort of means to help, otherwise why would she involve her at all in this?
    Diana thought Hessia MIGHT be able to help. Not that she absolutely KNEW Hessia could help. There's a difference.

    If being prepared and having a place to hold Superman is paramount to any form of effective treatment, then why was Wonder Woman's fail-safe strategy to bring an Amazon healer to a completely untamed Superman?
    Hessia was a last resort in case science failed.

    Hessia did quite fine against SuperDoom, so presumably Diana didn't have a reason to believe that Hessia couldn't handle a completely untamed Superman.

    Then what was the point of involving Hessia at all now?
    Science failed. Time to try magic.

    Just because Hessia doesn't have a "Cure Doomsday Poisoning" potion handy doesn't mean that she CAN'T come up with a cure. Just that her methods are no more sure to work than scientific methods.

    What I was saying is that the scientists had a holding facility and all the technology they could possibly need at their disposal. That means they can effectively hold Superman while seeking a cure. Hessia may be able to cure Superman, but she doesn't have a holding facility for him. If you're going to make a split-second decision about to whom you should send him, which is the logical choice?

    Except for Wonder Woman who seems to believe Hessia can accomplish what the scientists could not.
    She clearly didn't believe Hessia could hold Clark long enough to cure him or she may have pushed more heavily in favor of taking him the Hessia first.

    They tried it Clark's way and it didn't work. So Diana fell back on HER way, which was no more certain of success than Clark's way.

    No one has advocated magic be shoved down Superman's throat, although I'm not sure if that wasn't exactly what Diana was hoping Hessia would do in this issue.
    At that point, when Superman seemed well and truly lost to Doomsday? Yeah, then it's okay to try shoving magic down his throat. At that point he really can't weigh in on what's good for him.

    Was Superman really in a state of mind to be able to be involved in his own treatment planning? Moreover, since we didn't see Clark reject a magic cure, it's impossible to say whether he would have endorsed it or not.
    He had the option of going to Hessia or going to the government. He clearly chose the government.

    As to his mental state? After he overcame the first Doomsday episode? He was calm and lucid enough to make his own choices.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  12. #72
    Senior Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    Diana thought Hessia MIGHT be able to help. Not that she absolutely KNEW Hessia could help. There's a difference.
    Might be able to help is good enough reason to call Hessia and let her know it would be good for her to be on call in case her help is urgently needed, then. Plus, Diana didn't KNOW the scientists could help either.

    Hessia was a last resort in case science failed.
    Last resorts should probably be on hand and accessible.

    Just because Hessia doesn't have a "Cure Doomsday Poisoning" potion handy doesn't mean that she CAN'T come up with a cure. Just that her methods are no more sure to work than scientific methods.
    Right, so best to have all viable options handy when needed.

    What I was saying is that the scientists had a holding facility and all the technology they could possibly need at their disposal. That means they can effectively hold Superman while seeking a cure. Hessia may be able to cure Superman, but she doesn't have a holding facility for him. If you're going to make a split-second decision about to whom you should send him, which is the logical choice?
    Hessia doesn't need her own holding facility. She can just come to the one already in use. Simple.

    They tried it Clark's way and it didn't work. So Diana fell back on HER way, which was no more certain of success than Clark's way.
    What do you mean Clark's way? We never saw this matter discussed or any decisions made.

    He had the option of going to Hessia or going to the government. He clearly chose the government.
    It's not an either/or situation, and frankly there's no indication Clark chose anything or knew Hessia was an option. Regardless, he can use both science and magic; he can have both ready to go and consulting on the matter.
    Last edited by misslane; 06-11-2014 at 02:05 PM.

  13. #73

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    Listen up, please.

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