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  1. #796
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    The Gay couple did not know that the baker would refuse until they ordered the cake. So If the waiter tells me when I order that the chef won't cook for Jews, I should just leave?
    Should you patronize someone who thinks they shouldn't even have to cook for you?

    While I see what you are saying, I personally don't see the "Win" in a situation where they wind up with your money in their pocket.

  2. #797
    Astonishing Member Old Man Ollie 1962's Avatar
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    Before integration, African-American communities had black owned businesses, banks, real estate, restaurants, hotels, movie houses, auto shops, grocery stores, etc. Black supply and black demand nurtured thriving communities and kept them viable. We had more control of our destiny. Integration on many levels took away our self-reliance, self-determination, pride, social/economic cohesiveness.

  3. #798
    formerly edhopper Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Should you patronize someone who thinks they shouldn't even have to cook for you?

    While I see what you are saying, I personally don't see the "Win" in a situation where they wind up with your money in their pocket.
    So those Black civil rights protesters shouldn't have bothered going to lunch counters where they weren't wanted. Right?

    Why are gay people even coming out of the closet, if it upsets people?
    With Great Power, yadda, yadda, yadda....

  4. #799
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    So those Black civil rights protesters shouldn't have bothered going to lunch counters where they weren't wanted. Right?

    Why are gay people even coming out of the closet, if it upsets people?
    Different question.

    If someone should be able to get service anywhere, is not the same question as "Once I know where they stand, should I give them money knowing where they stand?"

  5. #800
    Astonishing Member Old Man Ollie 1962's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    So those Black civil rights protesters shouldn't have bothered going to lunch counters where they weren't wanted. Right?

    Why are gay people even coming out of the closet, if it upsets people?
    If Afro-Americans weren't so concerned with rubbing elbows in white society and spent their time and energy developing and investing in and their own communities, we could have achieved more unanimity. A solid fist has more power than five individual fingers. But it doesn't make much difference now, considering the current social and political landscape.

  6. #801
    Amazing Member The Question's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old School Ollie 1962 View Post
    If Afro-Americans weren't so concerned with rubbing elbows in white society and spent their time and energy developing and investing in and their own communities, we could have achieved more unanimity. A solid fist has more power than five individual fingers. But it doesn't make much difference now, considering the current social and political landscape.
    You're talking about Nationalism.

  7. #802
    Astonishing Member Old Man Ollie 1962's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Question View Post
    You're talking about Nationalism.
    Minus the xenophobia and isolationism. But that was then. It's the filthy rich vs the vastly increasing dirt poor now.

  8. #803
    formerly edhopper Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Different question.

    If someone should be able to get service anywhere, is not the same question as "Once I know where they stand, should I give them money knowing where they stand?"
    How do you find out which businesses hate you. Do you ask first or just leave when you find out they don't like the minority group you belong to?
    With Great Power, yadda, yadda, yadda....

  9. #804
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    How do you find out which businesses hate you. Do you ask first or just leave when you find out they don't like the minority group you belong to?
    In the instance we're discussing, someone has walked right up to you and let you know.

  10. #805
    formerly edhopper Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    In the instance we're discussing, someone has walked right up to you and let you know.
    Yes, they went to a Baker and he said we don't serve your kind here.

    Just like they told black people. Just like they told Jewish people.

    The shame is you see a difference.
    With Great Power, yadda, yadda, yadda....

  11. #806
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Yes, they went to a Baker and he said we don't serve your kind here.

    Just like they told black people. Just like they told Jewish people.

    The shame is you see a difference.
    Look, I see what you are saying.

    That said, I don't see a way to force service without your money winding up in the pocket of someone who still won't believe they should have to serve you.

    That is what I believe Question was talking about.

  12. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old School Ollie 1962 View Post
    If Afro-Americans weren't so concerned with rubbing elbows in white society and spent their time and energy developing and investing in and their own communities, we could have achieved more unanimity. A solid fist has more power than five individual fingers. But it doesn't make much difference now, considering the current social and political landscape.
    It was less about rubbing elbows with white society and more about fighting against being denied resources and avenues for achievement.

  13. #808
    formerly edhopper Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Look, I see what you are saying.

    That said, I don't see a way to force service without your money winding up in the pocket of someone who still won't believe they should have to serve you.

    That is what I believe Question was talking about.
    That is how minds change. By letting them see that everyone is human. By not letting them discriminate and isolate themselves.
    With Great Power, yadda, yadda, yadda....

  14. #809
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    That is how minds change. By letting them see that everyone is human.
    Man...

    One guy's take?

    The guy in questions' religion has had a really long time to change their minds. You seem to believe in their ability to change far more than I can.

  15. #810
    Astonishing Member Old Man Ollie 1962's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    It was less about rubbing elbows with white society and more about fighting against being denied resources and avenues for achievement.
    We could have relied more on international resources and avenues for achievement, which is what Garvey, Du Bois, and Malcolm X advocated.

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