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  1. #1561
    Extraordinary Member Trey Strain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Why is that worn out. It is a super team that is also a family. And there were some really good comics published with them right up to when they were cancelled.
    Why are they worn out and not Spider-man or the Punisher or the X-Men?

    Are we not allowed to challenge these opinions on this thread?
    Yes, I know that Reed is a Jack Kirby guy. Geez. I get it that you like Reed. You should get it that I want him out of there. I posted that here because I didn't want to have to bicker about it.

    If you think the comic is just fine, you're welcome to think so. But I'm not the only person who thinks it ran out of gas a long time ago.

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/10/...fantastic-four

  2. #1562
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Why is that worn out. It is a super team that is also a family. And there were some really good comics published with them right up to when they were cancelled.
    Why are they worn out and not Spider-man or the Punisher or the X-Men?

    Are we not allowed to challenge these opinions on this thread?
    Point one. The FF is not a worn out concept. Ideas like Sopranos and Breaking Bad combine family drama with another concept just as FF combines family and cosmic superheroing.

    Point two. This is a controversial opinion thread. Most of these opinions should evoke WTF? reactions.

  3. #1563
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    And the comic will keep sucking and not selling.
    Neither of these is true.

  4. #1564
    Mighty Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Point one. The FF is not a worn out concept. Ideas like Sopranos and Breaking Bad combine family drama with another concept just as FF combines family and cosmic superheroing.

    Point two. This is a controversial opinion thread. Most of these opinions should evoke WTF? reactions.
    Not worn out, but...

    That article that Trey put link to, made some valid points, I think.

    The original Lee/ Kirby was dynamic. New characters constantly appeared, and the four principals matured and developed.

    At some point somebody lost their nerve, and/or decided it was easier to press the Groundhog Day button, rather than move things forward.

    I love the Fantastic Four. But way past time that Johnny became and stayed mature, Ben and Alicia either marry or split up, etc, etc. Certainly the kids should have grown up decades ago.

  5. #1565
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    Not worn out, but...

    That article that Trey put link to, made some valid points, I think.

    The original Lee/ Kirby was dynamic. New characters constantly appeared, and the four principals matured and developed.

    At some point somebody lost their nerve, and/or decided it was easier to press the Groundhog Day button, rather than move things forward.

    I love the Fantastic Four. But way past time that Johnny became and stayed mature, Ben and Alicia either marry or split up, etc, etc. Certainly the kids should have grown up decades ago.
    There's a difference between bad concept and improperly utilizing it. With a franchise going on for over 50 years, it's easy to repeat and failing to move on.

  6. #1566
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    A store deciding to not sell your comic is not "bullying".

  7. #1567
    Mighty Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    There's a difference between bad concept and improperly utilizing it. With a franchise going on for over 50 years, it's easy to repeat and failing to move on.
    Yes...that's it "easy".

    But, of course, Fantastic Four is far from the only example we could both quote of mainstream super heroes "Groundhog Day".

    In fact, pressing the reset button has become the norm. Put kindly decades ago mainstream super hero comics became just as much about brand management of the iconic characters as telling good stories.

  8. #1568
    Looney Toon Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    Not worn out, but...

    That article that Trey put link to, made some valid points, I think.

    The original Lee/ Kirby was dynamic. New characters constantly appeared, and the four principals matured and developed.

    At some point somebody lost their nerve, and/or decided it was easier to press the Groundhog Day button, rather than move things forward.

    I love the Fantastic Four. But way past time that Johnny became and stayed mature, Ben and Alicia either marry or split up, etc, etc. Certainly the kids should have grown up decades ago.
    Yeah, but you can say that to a more or lesser degree about every Marvel/DC property that has been around for half a century.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
    - Gerhard Bronner

  9. #1569
    Mighty Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Yeah, but you can say that to a more or lesser degree about every Marvel/DC property that has been around for half a century.
    Lol...look at post I made directly above yours!

  10. #1570
    MXAAGVNIEETRO IS RIGHT MyriVerse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Point one. The FF is not a worn out concept. Ideas like Sopranos and Breaking Bad combine family drama with another concept just as FF combines family and cosmic superheroing.

    Point two. This is a controversial opinion thread. Most of these opinions should evoke WTF? reactions.
    The FF concept is not family drama in the same vein Breaking Bad or Sopranos were, and I'd be willing to bet that if Marvel tried to use that style, there'd be pitchforks in front of Marvel offices. The style of family drama that the FF has almost always been is very out of date, imo. It really has never progressed from the mid-60s. I've never been able to relate to a single bit of it, and tbh, Ben is the only one of the "family" that I enjoy reading about... but mostly when he's apart from the family.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Yeah, but you can say that to a more or lesser degree about every Marvel/DC property that has been around for half a century.
    I really don't believe you can to the same extent as the FF.
    Last edited by MyriVerse; 05-13-2018 at 02:04 PM.
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  11. #1571
    Looney Toon Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    Lol...look at post I made directly above yours!
    I know. Only saw it just after I posted alas.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
    - Gerhard Bronner

  12. #1572
    Looney Toon Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyriVerse View Post
    I really don't believe you can to the same extent as the FF.
    Warren Ellis and Mike Carey proved there is absolutely nothing outdated about the general concept with the Ultimate FF, just about the particular form the 616 universe took it to and keeps it in.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
    - Gerhard Bronner

  13. #1573
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyriVerse View Post
    The FF concept is not family drama in the same vein Breaking Bad or Sopranos were, and I'd be willing to bet that if Marvel tried to use that style, there'd be pitchforks in front of Marvel offices. The style of family drama that the FF has almost always been is very out of date, imo. It really has never progressed from the mid-60s. I've never been able to relate to a single bit of it, and tbh, Ben is the only one of the "family" that I enjoy reading about... but mostly when he's apart from the family.
    You're thoroughly misunderstanding the family parts of those shows. Whether it's throwing a pizza on a roof, awkward family dinners, complaining about pulp in orange juice, or scrabble games; those shows, like the FF combine mundane family "drama" with extraordinary lives and events.

    It's clear you don't like the concept. But as with so many posters here need to realize, not liking something doesn't mean it sucks.

  14. #1574

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madam-Shogun-Assassin View Post
    The controversy centering on Teen Titans #1 (2014) was completely overblown.
    Ditto the objectification complaints about CRY FOR JUSTICE. Like it or hate it, the "objectification-moment" was so small a part of the story that it was not representative of the whole story.

    Hmm, can I say it's not an opinion about DC Comics per se but about over-politicized fandom in general?

  15. #1575

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor-of-Dragons View Post
    From my personal experience i kinda disagree with this.
    Same here, though I'll state I think it's unlikely for most persons to reproduce psychic effects on a regular basis.

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