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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by RLAAMJR. View Post
    I admit. I'm one of them.
    LOL, you are a true fan
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  2. #62
    Were You There? Michael P's Avatar
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    Here's one that popped up a lot this week for some reason: Fans who bash something they don't actually know anything about while being wholly confident that their self-satisfied biases are 100% right.
    "It's not whether you win or lose, it's whether I win or lose." - Peter David, on life

    "If you can't say anything nice about someone, sit right here by me." - Alice Roosevelt Longworth, on manners

    "You're much stronger than you think you are." - Superman, on humankind


    All-New, All-Different Marvel Checklist

  3. #63
    Fantastic Member BatGlamorous's Avatar
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    The suffocating feeling of nostalgia expressed by a lot of fans, making the whole medium fee encased in amber.

    There's nothing wrong with nostalgia, but every artistic medium deserves to be able to evolve. It would be nice if every new idea didn't feel encumbered by ten thousand screeching doom-sayers.
    Batgirl - ...BOP - Batman - 'Tec - Nightwing - Supergirl - Titans - Wonder Woman

  4. #64
    Ultimate Member TheInvisibleMan's Avatar
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    indeed, its we want change, something changes, then its all hysterics, change it back, oh thats old and busted

    you want to read/see something that makes you feel like you were 10 again? guess what? you're not 10 anymore
    “If you listen to the fans, you’ll find yourself sitting with them”

    - Joe Kuharich

  5. #65
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatGlamorous View Post
    There's nothing wrong with nostalgia, but every artistic medium deserves to be able to evolve. It would be nice if every new idea didn't feel encumbered by ten thousand screeching doom-sayers.
    Image Comics.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by edhopper View Post
    People who think Storm is the greatest comic character everr.
    Nothing wrong with that. People that think Storm isn't black are fucking crazy, though.

  7. #67
    Incredible Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    I'm not talking about ALL comic book fans, but I find that comic fans tend to trend conservative. Not conservative politically necessarily. It's not as if every comic book fan clamors for small government, cries about the second amendment or all that, but conservative in spirit. Change is often met with extreme opposition. There is a very large contingent of the Big 2 fanbase who still read comics to cling to the joys of childhood. They want to read about the same characters, doing the same things, interacting with the same supporting cast month in and month out.

    I do think nerd fandom can skew racist and sexist (especially video games, it seems), but I think when it comes to the comic book fandom a lot of that underlying racism and sexism does come from things just wanting to stay the same. It's not that their especially offended by a black Captain America or a female Captain Marvel or a teenage Muslim Ms. Marvel, it has more to do with the fact that they aren't the characters they grew up with. They still want to continue to read about the adventures of Steve Rogers 75 Years after his creation.

    That's not to say that there aren't truly racist and sexist people out there, because there are. Sexism certainly a bit more. Mens Rights Activists are lurking around every corner in every historically male dominated fandom who make youtube videos every time a female characters is better than a male characters (Read: Rey in Star Wars: The Force Awakens).

    But ultimately, I'll give comics fans the benefit of the doubt saying that it comes from aggressive nostalgia. That doesn't make it a good thing and I'll say that I believe that pandering to nostalgia will kill the industry eventually.

  8. #68
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Comparing the Japanese and American comic markets is an interesting thing. Shonen, like superheroes, is extremely dominant when it comes to sales, but there's a wide variety appreciated for different demographics. Just about everything is creator owned, so most stories are finite and editorial can only push so hard (usually more about productivity than direction). Most importantly, the stories almost always go with the author. In fairness, I haven't been to a single Japanese message board so I have no idea some of the complaints out there. But you see the end result, stories that go for years and years and then end, and then it's time for something new.

    But with American comics, you see a clear reflection of how decades of mandated output about a corporate character isn't enough output and the company will almost be forced to comply (almost, because they do like money). Many people would be really angry to lose Peter Parker, but we've already had him for 50 years. In some cases, some of the same people would even argue that he's not the same Peter Parker they knew. But we probably wouldn't see him gone even if everyone in the office decided it was time for something new.

    Of course I think it's important to avoid painting "fandom" with a wide brush here, as I can't confirm that I have ever seen the same person (online or otherwise) both complain about the same old stuff and complain that a superhero comic is getting too experimental. But I do reach the frustration level where I feel the need to vent when I see complaints about difference with a product that the same people have yet to buy. When people say "I give this six issues" or "this will probably be cancelled soon." And the quality assessments extrapolated from those situations, like "this book would do better with a good artist," as if talent and hard work are measured by what the superhero mainstream buys. There is something of an obsession with "A-list," assuming that a creator who has worked on a particular character previously can automatically do well with another. I mentioned manga, and despite their success with bigger titles even guys like Humberto Ramos and Joe Mad have a huge amount of detractors because their work looks "too anime."

    I really just find it discouraging as I know a few independent artists with a true passion for the medium who put in crazy amounts of time at the drawing board and come up with some really extraordinary work, and this is what the highest level of success looks like. I see a lot of desire to do superheroes killed quickly.

  9. #69
    Newbie Member darediva's Avatar
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    went to local shop this morning and decided I have some things to contribute.

    to start off, not being able to have a discussion is the worst. it includes all "let's not say bad things here", to "you like the character because he is a minority" and "you cannot hate a character because he is a minority" and the worst "he is stupid because i told you so". this is definitely not comic-world exclusive, art and cinema market suffers from the same symptoms, especially Cannes and Europe/Scandinavian cinema, a bit different picture in america where Oscars are white-washed and it got big like.. last year. However, not the point. I believe racist/homophobic etc opinions are horrible, and should be faced with proper response, not just "you are racist", however, there is a huge difference between disliking character/arc and disliking the race of the character.

    HOWEVER. I am not saying those issues do not exist. Got painfully reminded prejudice is still here.
    So, my (not full)list of things that really got on my nerve (quite a niche thing, but still):
    (1) Comic-book shop owners and visitors who think girls know nothing about comics;
    (2) Comic-book shop owners and visitors who think only nerdy looking girls know something about comics;
    (3) Comic-book shop owners who think that you are buying comics for your brother/father/son/boyfriend;
    (4) Comic-book shop owners who are trying to sell you only "girly" shit, or recommend smth because of "strong romance line"

    (5) Comic readers who see you lesser because you read in digital, and all that "you will never be able to sell your collection". I have nothing against people collecting with an idea to sell it at one point in life, I mean, I collect stamps for quite financial reasons, but common, not all of us should see the monetary value in future;
    (6) Comic readers who judge your knowledge/how big fan you are based on how much comics you have bought. <- This especially. When I was a high-school kid/started uni, I could not offer to buy a lot of things. i needed to wait all the possible sales, and wait for ha;f a year to get my books, or borrow them. I did not want to use my parent's money to buy comics, plus, I have more things I need to spend my money on. Right now, when I have a nice job, I can afford whatever I want... do not really feel much superior than other readers.

    I know, most of the people in this fandom are not like that. But those who are can really make your day quite bad, even if it is the day you get your hands on a nice collectible.

  10. #70
    Extraordinary Member John Ossie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancj View Post
    "hater" is a crappy insult. I'm sure pretty much everyone hates some things, loves some things, likes some things and is indifferent to some things.

    We're all haters - and that's fine
    What irritates me is that it's such a lazy ''comeback'' and it doesn't add anything to a discussion and just derails the discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by JazzyJeffie View Post
    Spot on, John!
    I get it that every long-time collector/forum member has more credibility over others with "lesser posts" or "a lesser-populated collection" (at least in the forum), but that doesn't mean every other person who is like this compared to him/her, will never make valid points or at times, make more sense.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael P View Post
    Here's one that popped up a lot this week for some reason: Fans who bash something they don't actually know anything about while being wholly confident that their self-satisfied biases are 100% right.
    That's a good example.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Hopkins View Post
    Nothing wrong with that. People that think Storm isn't black are fucking crazy, though.


    There are people who think this?
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  12. #72
    Extraordinary Member John Ossie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realdealholy View Post


    There are people who think this?
    Either he's joking or I'll end up looking as confused as you.

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by darediva View Post
    (6) Comic readers who judge your knowledge/how big fan you are based on how much comics you have bought.


    This has happened often. As if that automatic makes my points, which are neither crazy nor unfair, inferior by default. And the characters I usually talk about, I've read a lot of their runs.
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  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Ossie View Post
    Either he's joking or I'll end up looking as confused as you.
    In retrospect, I don't think he's meant people thinking Storm literally isn't black (then they are blind). Perhaps "culturally"...if that makes sense? THAT, I've seen before.

    And BTW, black doesn't mean exclusively African-American. Black people come from and are in many places. And in Storm's case, she's half African-American anyway.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Miller View Post
    I'm not talking about ALL comic book fans, but I find that comic fans tend to trend conservative. Not conservative politically necessarily. It's not as if every comic book fan clamors for small government, cries about the second amendment or all that, but conservative in spirit. Change is often met with extreme opposition. There is a very large contingent of the Big 2 fanbase who still read comics to cling to the joys of childhood. They want to read about the same characters, doing the same things, interacting with the same supporting cast month in and month out.

    I do think nerd fandom can skew racist and sexist (especially video games, it seems), but I think when it comes to the comic book fandom a lot of that underlying racism and sexism does come from things just wanting to stay the same. It's not that their especially offended by a black Captain America or a female Captain Marvel or a teenage Muslim Ms. Marvel, it has more to do with the fact that they aren't the characters they grew up with. They still want to continue to read about the adventures of Steve Rogers 75 Years after his creation.

    That's not to say that there aren't truly racist and sexist people out there, because there are. Sexism certainly a bit more. Mens Rights Activists are lurking around every corner in every historically male dominated fandom who make youtube videos every time a female characters is better than a male characters (Read: Rey in Star Wars: The Force Awakens).

    But ultimately, I'll give comics fans the benefit of the doubt saying that it comes from aggressive nostalgia. That doesn't make it a good thing and I'll say that I believe that pandering to nostalgia will kill the industry eventually.
    I think you're wrong. I think that except for a few non-neurotypical people, "I don't like change" is just a handy dandy cover for the racism and sexism. The change that gets shouted about he loudest is always the change that increases diversity. Replace a white guy with a white guy (Starman, Dick as Batman, Bucky as Cap, white Wally as the Flash, Guy Gardner as GL, Kyle Rayner as GL because even though he's nonwhite most fans seem to think he is) and fans are down for the ride. Similarly with film, the attitude seems to be "make any change to these characters you want, just keep 'em white." If change was the only issue then people should have shouted a lot louder about the other characters than Johnny Storm in the latest FF film. Johnny was in general true to his past characterization. "Race correct" Doom, Ben and Sue were nearly unrecognizable, even comparing them to the Ultimate versions.
    Last edited by Shawn Hopkins; 01-30-2016 at 12:05 PM.

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