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  1. #211
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnarTheGreat View Post

    Japanese TLJ trailer


    Japanese TLJ poster
    Looks like Luke has reclaimed his original (e.g. Anakin's) lightsaber.

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  2. #212
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Still iffy on what they're doing with Luke. I don't really buy him taking this as the big message from Kylo's fall, but we'll see if they can make that believable.
    You're not the only one. Mark Hamill has said he wasn't initially thrilled with the direction they took the character, and wondered, "Is this what they really think of Luke?"

    Like you said, I guess we'll see if they can make it work, but it does seem weird that the guy who had the courage to try and turn his father back to the light would give up so easily.

  3. #213
    Invincible Member TheInvisibleMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    You're not the only one. Mark Hamill has said he wasn't initially thrilled with the direction they took the character, and wondered, "Is this what they really think of Luke?"

    Like you said, I guess we'll see if they can make it work, but it does seem weird that the guy who had the courage to try and turn his father back to the light would give up so easily.
    that actually makes me even more interested in where they are going
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  4. #214
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    Luke's gonna light up his old friend, eh?

    Probably to just train Rey, I guess. I hope he looks in the hole again.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  5. #215
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheInvisibleMan View Post
    that actually makes me even more interested in where they are going
    And maybe Hamill, too. I'm not really sure. I can't tell from his interviews if he eventually bought into the direction they took Luke or not.

    I think it's a swinging for the fences kind of thing. Will they pull it off? Time will tell. But it's definitely more intriguing then if they'd just had Luke be the conventional hero for the past thirty years.

    I can't say where I stand until I've seen the film. And even then, I suspect we won't know until Episode IX.

    It also sounds like the original intention was that each film would focus on a different OT character--Han, Luke, and then Leia. With that no longer being possible, I wonder if Luke becomes the OT focus again?

  6. #216
    Invincible Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I wonder if Kylo Ren's lightsaber is made from the stolen green kyber crystal of Luke's. Hence why there's no sign of Luke still having it, and any promotional image or poster of Luke wielding a weapon is with Anakin's.
    They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son. - Jor-El.

  7. #217
    Class 5 Roaming Vapor BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I wonder if Kylo Ren's lightsaber is made from the stolen green kyber crystal of Luke's. Hence why there's no sign of Luke still having it, and any promotional image or poster of Luke wielding a weapon is with Anakin's.
    Makes sense and they just recently retconned how kyber crystals work, too.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  8. #218
    Invincible Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son. - Jor-El.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post

    Still iffy on what they're doing with Luke. I don't really buy him taking this as the big message from Kylo's fall, but we'll see if they can make that believable.
    This is an assumption that's easy to make, but what makes you think these two things happened in that order? It's probably what they'll go with, because it's simple and easy to follow, but there is no reason it needs to be the case. What if Kylo's fall isn't what makes Luke into this broken shell, but is rather the RESULT of whatever put Luke in this state?

    I keep coming back to the question of why Kylo Ren worships his grandfather so fiercely. It's probably not just going to be cheap fanboy-ism. "He's strong! I want to be strong! Evil it is!" Somehow, Kylo Ren sees himself as a hero in all of this, I just can't quite work out how. But what if he had a reason to believe the Jedi needed to be wiped out? What if something he experienced made him believe that the Purge was right and proper, and that he needed to finish what Vader started? And what if whatever that trigger was, it was Luke's fault?

    I'm honestly hoping that Luke's line from the trailer about not fearing power refers not to either of the obvious previous candidates (Vader or Kylo), but rather to himself. That he screwed up somehow, and feels so bad that he ran away to hide. And that whatever he witnessed from his uncle convinced Ben Solo that the Jedi must die. Leia and Han blamed Snoke for seducing their son to darkness (likely to be true, though it's boring and stinks of copying the original trilogy again), but what if he sought out Snoke to learn the dark side explicitly to counter the light?

    Unlikely as hell. But my only concern with Last Jedi is that it will be too safe and not take any chances. And that it will feel as much a re-has as Force Awakens did.

  10. #220
    Mighty Member Starter Set's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroBG82 View Post
    I keep coming back to the question of why Kylo Ren worships his grandfather so fiercely. It's probably not just going to be cheap fanboy-ism
    Wouldn't surprise me, episode 7 is filled with cheap and rather lazy fanboyism.
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  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I wonder if Kylo Ren's lightsaber is made from the stolen green kyber crystal of Luke's. Hence why there's no sign of Luke still having it, and any promotional image or poster of Luke wielding a weapon is with Anakin's.
    Your probably right. I always thought it was hiding in R2. He gave R2 the map piece and his saber when he gave up the fight knowing that he wouldn't need it until R2 returned.

  12. #222
    Mighty Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    I got the implication from TFA and also maybe the Bloodline novel that perhaps Ben/Ren suffers a bit from abandonment issues; that perhaps Leia and Han just kind of gave him largely to Luke to take care of-and also Leia didn't tell him about his grandfather (It gets publicly 'outed' by another senator who discovers a recording of Bail Organa's) so there's maybe that feeling of betrayal as well.
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  13. #223
    Spectacular Member MagnarTheGreat's Avatar
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    IMAX-exclusive poster:

    Rey finds her place in our exclusive art for @StarWars #TheLastJedi, coming to IMAX theatres December 15!

    https://twitter.com/IMAX/status/930452018229018625

  14. #224
    Invincible Member TheInvisibleMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    Wouldn't surprise me, episode 7 is filled with cheap and rather lazy fanboyism.
    so how much do you have to clench your jaw when saying that?
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  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    I got the implication from TFA and also maybe the Bloodline novel that perhaps Ben/Ren suffers a bit from abandonment issues; that perhaps Leia and Han just kind of gave him largely to Luke to take care of-and also Leia didn't tell him about his grandfather (It gets publicly 'outed' by another senator who discovers a recording of Bail Organa's) so there's maybe that feeling of betrayal as well.
    I've always felt that it was probably a bit more than just run-of-the-mill abandonment issues, and that Snoke was pulling some kind of shenanigans on Kylo's view of himself and the Galaxy. He clearly didn't have the greatest relationship with his parents, but lots of little details imply it was more a matter of pressure on the family and different temperaments that left him vulnerable:

    -Leia was almost certainly a workaholic as a Senator, and Han still had a good amount of wanderlust, since he made not one but two separate careers that would require travel, as a racer and as a cargo company owner.
    -But there's lots of little things that imply that Han and Leia tried to overcome those issues: the deleted scene of Ren entering the Falcon implies that Kylo is struggling with bitterly positive memories, probably from Han taking him on little adventures, and Leia's dialogue with Han implies that she only "lost him" when she sent him to train with Luke.
    -Kylo has a lot of issues, but they're not the kind of issues Anakin had that were caused by separation from his mother and being raised in an austere order of warrior monks. He mostly seems like a cult member recruited in his teens or twenties, especially in his need to reinforce his beliefs and in his inability to totally embrace hatred of Han and Leia.
    -Kylo's little "prayer" to Vader's helmet, and his desperation to have Vader "show me the power of the dark side" feels like it stems from some pseudo-religious encounter with an image of Vader, a first hand experience that would give him an alternate reality to the one he was raised in; I smell some mental hijinks by Snoke to create that.

    My favorite (and totally unfounded) theory is that Kylo was always a little high-strung and insecure growing up, and while he never doubted his parents loved him, probably felt he was unworthy of their love. He probably acted out a bit and Leia acted as the disciplinarian while Han was maybe a bit of an enabler of scoundrel behavior. Eventually, his burgeoning Force powers and temperment convince Leia that he needs proper training, so she sends him to Luke. Kylo probably feels rejected by this, even though a part of him knows it isn't... So he starts to think there's something wrong in him. And all this time, Snoke is watching, and maybe even interacting with the family.

    Kylo gets a decent amount of training from Luke, in particular his stasis ability; that feels like a defensive power Luke would teach him that Kylo misuses. But all the while, Snoke has been analyzing him, and starts to prod at his doubts. Then Leia and Luke's parentage is revealed; Kylo feels a betrayal, and probably a mixture of horror (from being raised to know the evil of the Empire) and salvation (he's not an aberrant and unwanted spawn of the Skywalkers; he's just like his grandad). Then, and this is something I'd really love to see, Snoke does some kind of illusion of an idealized Vader to finally corrupt Ben. To convince him that his natural path to salvation and identity is through the dark side.

    So now you've got a kid who believes his destiny is to follow his grandfather's footsteps, and has a fanatical devotion to his "prophet" in Snoke.
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