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  1. #436
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I could see why Sony would do it. If it's clear Zendaya's playing Mary Jane, she might overshadow Liz Allen in the first viewing.
    The problem is Liz (I can't believe even the Spidey mod mispelled her name. The character's name in comics is "Allan" but obviously wasn't in the movie) was never really used as a major part of the marketing going in. Sony and Marvel undercut this character themselves, regardless of who Zendaya's character was.

  2. #437
    BANNED dragonmp93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I could see why Sony would do it. If it's clear Zendaya's playing Mary Jane, she might overshadow Liz Allen in the first viewing.
    I doubt that they are doing the same thing as Snyder is (or was ?) apparently doing with Superman.

  3. #438

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    The problem is Liz (I can't believe even the Spidey mod mispelled her name. The character's name in comics is "Allan" but obviously wasn't in the movie) was never really used as a major part of the marketing going in. Sony and Marvel undercut this character themselves, regardless of who Zendaya's character was.
    There are five times as many search results for Allen as Allan. That's the main explanation for my mistake.

    Marketing could undercut the message, although those decisions are often separate from the film (the plot point about Ned learning Peter's secret was revealed in a trailer even though it undercut the scene where Peter is sneaking into his house, to avoid alerting Aunt May.)

    The majority of the audience isn't always going to be familiar with the behind the scenes stuff, so their expectations will be a little different than the people reading Hollywood gossip on actors too young to drink legally in the US.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  4. #439
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    I'd agree that they may have obfuscated that Michelle is clearly the new MJ out of a desire to keep the focus on a) Liz as the unobtainable/surprisingly attracted to Peter love interest and b) have Michelle act strictly as a supporting cast player and humorous commentator with potential, without having some audience members immediately identify where things were going. I mean, my dad liked this better than Amazing Spider-Man in part because it wasn't what he'd seen before, since he took me to Raimi's films when I was younger.

    And since you can argue the biggest problem with Dunst's Mary Jane was that she was defined as The Girl Next Door love interest, having the new version establish a clear personality on her own makes sense. And I'd argue that a snarky SJW interpretation, or Ally Sheedy to the comic-version's Molly Ringwold as the creators put it, is not that much of a difference compared to the Ultimate comic's best-friend fellow-nerd turned girlfriend, or the Ultimate cartoon's Chloe Sullivan-lite, and that Michelle-MJ already strikes me as a more interesting version of MJ than the Raimi version.

    I will admit, seeing her as a good MJ requires them to focus more on the seeds planted that hinted more towards comic's MJ's virtues: the parts where she chose to go to Peter's detention to keep him company, and where she's clearly hinted to maybe know why he has such a busy schedule. The acerbic personality can stay at times, but should mature into a more empathetic approach towards her friends while continuing to demonstrate clear loyalty to them. And if they utilized the possibility of her knowing who he is for drama and comedy, it could be great; she could simultaneously cover for him, insult him, and demonstrate worry for him while maybe subtly mulling over what being a superhero' girlfriend would entail. Heck, that could easily play into her acerbic personality towards him; anger and irritation born of both worry and a little bit of sadness at him not trusting her.

    And I can see this MJ doing a good job with iconic "Face it tiger, you've hit the jackpot" scene, albeit tailored to fit the characters. Imagine if Peter ends up asking/being asked by MJ to go to a dance, with some hijinks like supervillain student (maybe Ana Kravinovs?) to make it clear that Peter still doesn't really see MJ in a romantic way just yet but now clearly trusts her and enjoys her company. Then have her do the same thing one of my fellow speech team members did at my senior prom: show up looking gorgeous, have Peter get delightfully stunned, and maybe just have MJ smirk in triumph. "Jackpot."
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  5. #440
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    There are five times as many search results for Allen as Allan. That's the main explanation for my mistake.

    Marketing could undercut the message, although those decisions are often separate from the film (the plot point about Ned learning Peter's secret was revealed in a trailer even though it undercut the scene where Peter is sneaking into his house, to avoid alerting Aunt May.)

    The majority of the audience isn't always going to be familiar with the behind the scenes stuff, so their expectations will be a little different than the people reading Hollywood gossip on actors too young to drink legally in the US.
    LOL, you're a Spidey mod, you shouldn't be making this kind of mistake.

    (Dan Slott even had to say this on twitter. https://twitter.com/DanSlott/status/871884243940630530 and https://twitter.com/DanSlott/status/871885267866722306)

    The marketing and promotion already undercut Liz. But I think casting an up and comer like Zendaya was going to overshadow whoever else they cast (Michael Keaton excluded.) Wasn't Zendaya the first person they cast for Homecoming? (Not counting Holland and Tomei as they were already cast for Civil War.)

  6. #441
    Mighty Member Aruran.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    The marketing and promotion already undercut Liz. But I think casting an up and comer like Zendaya was going to overshadow whoever else they cast (Michael Keaton excluded.) Wasn't Zendaya the first person they cast for Homecoming? (Not counting Holland and Tomei as they were already cast for Civil War.)
    Yeah they announced Zendaya early in the process, and a ton assumed she was gonna be Mary Jane early on.

    I thought it was weird how the movie poster shows Zendaya, but they clearly used her for the publicity.
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  7. #442
    BANNED dragonmp93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    LOL, you're a Spidey mod, you shouldn't be making this kind of mistake.

    (Dan Slott even had to say this on twitter. https://twitter.com/DanSlott/status/871884243940630530 and https://twitter.com/DanSlott/status/871885267866722306)

    The marketing and promotion already undercut Liz. But I think casting an up and comer like Zendaya was going to overshadow whoever else they cast (Michael Keaton excluded.) Wasn't Zendaya the first person they cast for Homecoming? (Not counting Holland and Tomei as they were already cast for Civil War.)
    To be sincere; Liz Allen sounds like a lost relative of Flash.

  8. #443
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonmp93 View Post
    To be sincere; Liz Allen sounds like a lost relative of Flash.
    Maybe that's why Stan and Steve named her "Allan."

  9. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Maybe that's why Stan and Steve named her "Allan."
    It can't be a coincidence that both "Flash" and "Allan" as a last name belong to two of Peter's earliest supporting characters.

  10. #445
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    Also, Zendaya and Tom Holland are dating now?

  11. #446

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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Also, Zendaya and Tom Holland are dating now?
    Sorry isn't that a rumor and not confirmed yet.
    Truth is the best policy

  12. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolcanikTiger86 View Post
    Sorry isn't that a rumor and not confirmed yet.
    I thought so too but photos and a video popped up on my social feeds today of them going out for a drive. They could just be friends but it would be funny if they were dating as Andrew Garfield/Emma Stone and Tobey Maguire/Kirsten Dunst also dated while they were filming their respective Spider-Men, if I'm right.

  13. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    I thought so too but photos and a video popped up on my social feeds today of them going out for a drive. They could just be friends but it would be funny if they were dating as Andrew Garfield/Emma Stone and Tobey Maguire/Kirsten Dunst also dated while they were filming their respective Spider-Men, if I'm right.
    I thought the Maguire/Dunst thing was never proven

  14. #449

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    Zendaya is a decent singer, with some of her songs doing quite well on Youtube and Spotify. Is this something the actress should bring to a sequel, and is it something Marvel might want to do with MJ in the comics?
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  15. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Zendaya is a decent singer, with some of her songs doing quite well on Youtube and Spotify. Is this something the actress should bring to a sequel, and is it something Marvel might want to do with MJ in the comics?
    The fact that she can sing and has a glamorous image outside of the role like traditional MJ is kind of frustrating. It's the same frustration I had with Henry Cavill's depiction of Superman in the DCEU films so far. An actor who is a pretty perfect fit for the character, but not given the chance to truly shine and made to go against his strengths that actually align with the character's strengths too. Homecoming's MJ though was much more interesting to me than DCEU's Superman.

    I think the ideal way for MJ's character progress in these films is to get in touch with her artistic side. I like the right side/left side of the brain analogy when it comes to the contrasting of Peter's scientific intellect and MJ's artistic inclinations. The reason they compliment each other so well is the biggest reason they are my favorite couple in comics. Having her be a science nerd as well kind of robs the relationship of some of its dynamics and versatility.

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