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  1. #3241
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    I think that last part is the worst thing about all of this. They didn't have the guts to admit they were hijacking the movie, so they used his personal tragedy to smooth it all over and sell the narrative that "this is still Zack Snyder's movie, honest!" When that wasn't the case.

    The issue is not that they fired Snyder, but when and how they did it. Once the decision to keep Snyder was made, then they should have kept Snyder and lived with the results, especially since they had already decided that JL was going to be the end of his direct involvement in the DCEU and they were moving on regardless.End of story.
    What makes it all worse is that they keep using Zack Snyder's footage of Justice League to promote its release and it is not even in the movie itself but as a cut content. They did everything in their power to make JL not a Snyder movie, but now they try to lure his fans to buy it on Blu-Ray. I'm not even mentioning stuff from the trailers that is not in the movie nor among deleted content.

    Hypocrisy at its finest.

  2. #3242
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    I agree with this also while not a Snyder fan I think many of his films are ok but I'm not a fan I will say the worse thing to happen to BvS was the WB hacking it apart for the theatrical cut and I think the film would had been at least better received if the Ultimate Cut was released in theaters. While I think going forward without Snyder was the right decision for the DCEU as a whole. I also sadly feel Snyder got to much blame for the early stumbles of the DCEU when WB deserves much more of the blame.
    And really, MOS didn't start out as Zack Snyder's baby, but Chris Nolan ,Jonathan Nolan and David Goyer's. They had come up with the idea of Superman being introduced via a first contact story and brought it to WB to begin a Superman trilogy in the same vein as Batman's Dark Knight trilogy. Nolan didn't want to direct it because he wanted to step away from Superheros, so Nolan and the studio got with Snyder, and Snyder and Goyer went off and made MOS with the understanding that it was going to be a Superman trilogy.

    MOS comes out, does pretty good, but since it didn't make a billion out of the gate, WB panicked, seized on Snyder's germ of an idea of having Batman be a potential antagonist down the line and soon MOS 2 was morphed into BvS Which was going to be a Superman film with Batman in a more supporting role, with Goyer and Snyder writing it.

    Then Affleck , hot off of Argo gets cast as Batman, he brings his own writer in Chris Terro to rework the draft, pushing the film back nearly a year later, and during this time, someone in WB decided not only to make it a film to reboot cinematic Batman to lead to a new series of Solo films, but also a backdoor pilot to a Justice League movie and a larger cinematic universe, all filtered through Snyder's point of view...Thus BvS was born and it's theatrical version was barely a Superman sequel once it was drastically cut and re-edited. It underperformed, Warner's panicked AGAIN....And well we all know the story that was JL.


    As much as I liked BvS ultimate cut and Wonder Woman, had Warner's not panicked because of the response to MOS and either allowed Snyder with Goyer and Nolan to make their Superman trilogy and slowly build to a cinematic universe if those did well or just hire another director for an MOS 2 and not rush themselves into a cinematic universe, everything I think would be in better shape.

    The key is for WB not to keep panicking and making knee jerk decisions that only seem to snowball.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 02-13-2018 at 10:36 PM.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  3. #3243
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    https://www.instagram.com/p/BfHldBgAnle/

    Looks like all of bonus materials were done while Zack Snyder was doing the job, Henry Cavill is shaved in every single bonus video.

  4. #3244
    Mighty Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    And really, MOS didn't start out as Zack Snyder's baby, but Chris Nolan ,Jonathan Nolan and David Goyer's. They had come up with the idea of Superman being introduced via a first contact story and brought it to WB to begin a Superman trilogy in the same vein as Batman's Dark Knight trilogy. Nolan didn't want to direct it because he wanted to step away from Superheros, so Nolan and the studio got with Snyder, and Snyder and Goyer went off and made MOS with the understanding that it was going to be a Superman trilogy.

    MOS comes out, does pretty good, but since it didn't make a billion out of the gate, WB panicked, seized on Snyder's germ of an idea of having Batman be a potential antagonist down the line and soon MOS 2 was morphed into BvS Which was going to be a Superman film with Batman in a more supporting role, with Goyer and Snyder writing it.

    Then Affleck , hot off of Argo gets cast as Batman, he brings his own writer in Chris Terro to rework the draft, pushing the film back nearly a year later, and during this time, someone in WB decided not only to make it a film to reboot cinematic Batman to lead to a new series of Solo films, but also a backdoor pilot to a Justice League movie and a larger cinematic universe, all filtered through Snyder's point of view...Thus BvS was born and it's theatrical version was barely a Superman sequel once it was drastically cut and re-edited. It underperformed, Warner's panicked AGAIN....And well we all know the story that was JL.


    As much as I liked BvS ultimate cut and Wonder Woman, had Warner's not panicked because of the response to MOS and either allowed Snyder with Goyer and Nolan to make their Superman trilogy and slowly build to a cinematic universe if those did well or just hire another director for an MOS 2 and not rush themselves into a cinematic universe, everything I think would be in better shape.

    The key is for WB not to keep panicking and making knee jerk decisions that only seem to snowball.
    Give me that Man of Steel trilogy over anything we got. I have my problems with Man of Steel but in my opinion its a good movie. It did fine at the box office. Pretty good for an origin film. The setting was done. We could have got some good films.


    If they did fire off Snyder and hid it by lies i am fine with that. Imagine the kind of PR disaster it could bring. In such a case that's a good decision. Bad thing about it is that they did not take steps in the right time. Unhappy with BvS? Start with someone new. While work was under progress for JL, a slight delay would not have been harmful.

  5. #3245
    Astonishing Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    And really, MOS didn't start out as Zack Snyder's baby, but Chris Nolan ,Jonathan Nolan and David Goyer's. They had come up with the idea of Superman being introduced via a first contact story and brought it to WB to begin a Superman trilogy in the same vein as Batman's Dark Knight trilogy. Nolan didn't want to direct it because he wanted to step away from Superheros, so Nolan and the studio got with Snyder, and Snyder and Goyer went off and made MOS with the understanding that it was going to be a Superman trilogy.

    MOS comes out, does pretty good, but since it didn't make a billion out of the gate, WB panicked, seized on Snyder's germ of an idea of having Batman be a potential antagonist down the line and soon MOS 2 was morphed into BvS Which was going to be a Superman film with Batman in a more supporting role, with Goyer and Snyder writing it.

    Then Affleck , hot off of Argo gets cast as Batman, he brings his own writer in Chris Terro to rework the draft, pushing the film back nearly a year later, and during this time, someone in WB decided not only to make it a film to reboot cinematic Batman to lead to a new series of Solo films, but also a backdoor pilot to a Justice League movie and a larger cinematic universe, all filtered through Snyder's point of view...Thus BvS was born and it's theatrical version was barely a Superman sequel once it was drastically cut and re-edited. It underperformed, Warner's panicked AGAIN....And well we all know the story that was JL.


    As much as I liked BvS ultimate cut and Wonder Woman, had Warner's not panicked because of the response to MOS and either allowed Snyder with Goyer and Nolan to make their Superman trilogy and slowly build to a cinematic universe if those did well or just hire another director for an MOS 2 and not rush themselves into a cinematic universe, everything I think would be in better shape.

    The key is for WB not to keep panicking and making knee jerk decisions that only seem to snowball.
    Take Suicide Squad I respect DA a lot simply because I can't think of many directors who wouldn't be livid if a studio allowed a Trailer House to do actual edits on their film and again it was WB's reactionary mentality. Every DCEU film under 50% on Rotten Tomatoes was heavily messed with by WB people may disagree with Snyder's interpretation of characters and I freely admit I'm one of them but the larger issues of the DCEU were not his fault they were solely the fault of WB.

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  7. #3247
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    The key is for WB not to keep panicking and making knee jerk decisions that only seem to snowball.
    The only reason we got Man of Steel was because WB panicked over the box-office of Superman Returns and made a knee jerk decision to kill the sequel starring Brandon Routh.

  8. #3248
    Astonishing Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Who knows if it would had been good but I do wish we'd gotten to see Justice League Mortal in 2008.

  9. #3249
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    The only reason we got Man of Steel was because WB panicked over the box-office of Superman Returns and made a knee jerk decision to kill the sequel starring Brandon Routh.
    Yes and no.From what i've read over the years, The writers strike in 2008 killed any forward momentum for the SR sequel, which no one within Warners were in a hurry to make given THE DARK KNIGHT had just made a billion thus reviving the Bat franchise and they were already developing Green Lantern which they assumed was going to be the next thing. By then even Singer himself didn't seem all that enthusiastic and his writers had already moved on. Thus, warners option on Routh expired as well as Singer's and the studio put it all into limbo, until they realized that if they didn't have a new Superman movie in theaters by 2013, they may loose the movie rights to the heirs who were still in legal dispute with Warners over the copyright. So they put feelers out, with many possibilities floated, including a still possible SR sequel staring Routh but not made by Singer. Eventually Nolan and Goyer while breaking the story for THE DARK KNIGHT RISES, hit upon the MOS idea, and the rest is history.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  10. #3250
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    Last edited by GreatKungLao; 02-14-2018 at 11:00 PM.

  11. #3251
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    Justice League artbook has a shot of Superman scene that Zack Snyder was shooting in bonus material





    Also, the Darkseid scene was probably also shot and partly even included in the first trailer

    Last edited by GreatKungLao; 02-14-2018 at 11:57 PM.

  12. #3252
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    And really, MOS didn't start out as Zack Snyder's baby, but Chris Nolan ,Jonathan Nolan and David Goyer's. They had come up with the idea of Superman being introduced via a first contact story and brought it to WB to begin a Superman trilogy in the same vein as Batman's Dark Knight trilogy. Nolan didn't want to direct it because he wanted to step away from Superheros, so Nolan and the studio got with Snyder, and Snyder and Goyer went off and made MOS with the understanding that it was going to be a Superman trilogy.

    MOS comes out, does pretty good, but since it didn't make a billion out of the gate, WB panicked, seized on Snyder's germ of an idea of having Batman be a potential antagonist down the line and soon MOS 2 was morphed into BvS Which was going to be a Superman film with Batman in a more supporting role, with Goyer and Snyder writing it.

    Then Affleck , hot off of Argo gets cast as Batman, he brings his own writer in Chris Terro to rework the draft, pushing the film back nearly a year later, and during this time, someone in WB decided not only to make it a film to reboot cinematic Batman to lead to a new series of Solo films, but also a backdoor pilot to a Justice League movie and a larger cinematic universe, all filtered through Snyder's point of view...Thus BvS was born and it's theatrical version was barely a Superman sequel once it was drastically cut and re-edited. It underperformed, Warner's panicked AGAIN....And well we all know the story that was JL.


    As much as I liked BvS ultimate cut and Wonder Woman, had Warner's not panicked because of the response to MOS and either allowed Snyder with Goyer and Nolan to make their Superman trilogy and slowly build to a cinematic universe if those did well or just hire another director for an MOS 2 and not rush themselves into a cinematic universe, everything I think would be in better shape.

    The key is for WB not to keep panicking and making knee jerk decisions that only seem to snowball.
    Honestly, I think WB saw the mixed reaction to MoS and thought "Batman can fix this! He fixes everything!" and that's where it all came from. They had a good pick in Batman, I think, but that was a lucky break - and they didn't see many of those. You get one chance to make a first impression, and that has haunted the DCEU since MoS.

    They need to sit down and hash out an actual vision. Then they won't panic quite so badly. They should look at the TV shows and Rebirth and several other efforts that are going well and find a spin that takes what works in those and still has it's own vibe that's in harmony with those. The problem is that I don't think they have one. They haven't had a coherent Superman idea of their own in a LOOOOOOOONG time. I can't even remember the last one. Maybe "Lois & Clark"?


    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    I think that last part is the worst thing about all of this. They didn't have the guts to admit they were hijacking the movie, so they used his personal tragedy to smooth it all over and sell the narrative that "this is still Zack Snyder's movie, honest!" When that wasn't the case.

    The issue is not that they fired Snyder, but when and how they did it. Once the decision to keep Snyder was made, then they should have kept Snyder and lived with the results, especially since they had already decided that JL was going to be the end of his direct involvement in the DCEU and they were moving on regardless.End of story.
    Here's what I don't get... why did WB bother to keep saying this was Snyder's baby? If they really thought his ideas were that bad, wouldn't it be better to say that this was fully a new direction that he signed off on and that we'd be seeing a full pivot for the DCEU? Honestly, that would have sold me a lot faster than what they did. I was waffling on even seeing this in theaters until the week before it came out. I think the kneecapped themselves more by insisting this was all "part of the plan".

    I do understand why they did what they did regarding him leaving, though - it was the easiest way for him to leave without any shame (being fired from a franchise probably isn't good for PR no matter how often it happens), and people (like me, tbh) wouldn't be able to say "see? WB thinks he sucks, too!" So everybody takes less heat and JL gets some sympathetic press. That may seem (very) cold, but it's also true. The PR was making the Hindenburg look smooth as it was. The last thing anybody (even Snyder) needed was this, too.

    However.... it's easy for us to say "they should let him finish his vision", but that's because it's not our money being put up. It's theirs. I mean, yes we buy the tickets so it kinda is ours in a way, but still... you get my point. It's in their bank, and they don't want to lose it. If I were in their position (besides things being a LOT different all-around), I could definitely understand not just sitting by while something builds such a divisive rep. And if they know (or feel) ahead of time that something's probably going to flop anyway... I could see the logic in making it as short as possible to get more money fast while doing their best to at least show that things are changing. And they did accomplish that much, from most accounts. So while I would have done a number of things differently, I do see the logic in some of it.

    What I don't see logic in though, is this: these are tentpole movies... why in the heck would they hire a 3hr+ type movie director when they know damn good and well they want 2.5 max runtimes? That's just bad business, from how I see it.
    Hear my new CD "Love The World Away", available on iTunes, Google Music, Spotify, Shazam, and Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01N5XYV..._waESybX1C0RXK via @amazon
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  13. #3253
    Took me a while, I'm back Netherman14's Avatar
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    Sometime you just have to get on the meme bandwagon.

    For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, for every you there's someone like me to fight back. And I don't give up. - Nu52 Superman

    Superman Avatar drawn by Jonboy Meyers.

  14. #3254
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Netherman14 View Post
    Sometime you just have to get on the meme bandwagon.

    And the crazier part is that neither of those look like the suit does in real life. The candid pics beat both of these, tbh - odd-looking Power Ranger/8-bit "under-muscles" and all.
    Hear my new CD "Love The World Away", available on iTunes, Google Music, Spotify, Shazam, and Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01N5XYV..._waESybX1C0RXK via @amazon
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    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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