Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    26,255

    Default In Your Face Jam - Mar 30, 2016

    With DC's Rebirth on the way, Brett White tries to figure out why the superhero universe fails to keep his attention.


    Full article here.

  2. #2
    Newbie Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    23

    Default

    DC is my default thanks to the animated shows (I think Batman Beyond was my first blood of that batch) that dominated the 90s to mid 2000s. Although oddly enough it was Hellboy that got me into comics. I'm one of those few people that love the New 52. I think it was ambitious and I respect DC for trying to do something new. There's a lot I really like about N52, and some I don't, but it made me really get a chance to dive into DC comics. I loved the DC characters, but their comics were always a bit hard to get into, which is a little strange because when I jumped into The Amazing Spider-man during the mid 600s I didn't feel like I was lost or needed to know the previous 600 issues. But when I jumped onto Batman during the Reborn arc I felt like I didn't know a lot, and I needed to read the last 100 or so issues to understand what was going on. The New 52 allowed me, and many others, to have that chance to experience these characters....even though many old fans despise it for that. I'm really hopeful on Rebirth. I'm rooting for DC all the way, and whether it's a good or bad thing I have hopes for them. Good luck DC!

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member dan12456's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    2,100

    Default

    I feel the same way in reverse. As much as I try I can't care about the Marvel universe as a whole. I love the core characters I follow at Marvel (Daredevil, the Inhumans, Black Panther and a few others to a lesser degree like Elektra, Cap and Winter Soldier) but I can't seem to care about the universe as a whole, the way I care about DC's universe. There is no objective reason for it that I can see. My entry point into comics was the Arrowverse, so possibly it's just that I fell in love with a form of the DC Universe enough that I branched into an entire hobby, and it's hard to replicate that initial feeling. But for whatever reason I'm just more a DC guy. The thought of a relaunch like ANAD just didn't get me excited the way Rebirth did, even before I had any details on creative teams etc.
    Current Pull: Lazarus, Invincible, Seven to Eternity, Aquaman, Batman, Detective Comics, Flash, Green Arrow, Green Lanterns, Nightwing, Titans, Trinity, Daredevil, Elektra, Royals, Secret Warriors, Black Bolt, Black Panther, Archie, Ninjak.

  4. #4
    Newbie Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1

    Default

    It's interesting because your experience is the rough equivalent of my own, with the companies reversed. As a kid, I was purely DC (it was the 70's and I was 8 and Stan Lee just struck me as way too arrogant in the columns he wrote). As I grew older, I let go of the DC vs. Marvel paradigm, but I still find it much more difficult to get invested in Marvel over DC even when I have characters, creators or runs that I adore.

    I think it may be tied to the rich experience of being a lifelong reader of a specific shared universe. When I read Flashpoint, I thought of it in relation to Crisis on Infinite Earths and Infinite Crisis. I started reading comics as a kid in the 70's and haven't missed a month of comics in nearly 40 years, so when Barry Allen returns, part of the enjoyment is not only the story I'm reading, but thinking of the guy from the 70's who had the comic collection and who's wife got killed and who was on trial for murdering the Reverse- Flash and who sacrificed himself during the Crisis. While I can enjoy a good Marvel run like Mark Waid on Daredevil, it's only going to be a good story. I took a clothespin and a towel and pretended to be Superman. I don't care how well done a Marvel story is, I never played Spider-Man as a kid, I played Superman.

    The advantage of being a lifelong fan of a particular shared universe is that you're not only reading a good story, but it's the latest chapter of a story you started reading when you were a kid eating Cap'n Crunch and watching Superfriends. I think there is something unconscious at play because a small part of you is still just playing the same game, forty years later.

  5. #5
    Newbie Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1

    Default

    I started reading comics in the 60's, when visiting older relatives who only read DC. They eventually started reading Marvel but I think I was a bit too young to appreciate/value that kind of storytelling. I dont think I bought a Marvel comic on my own until the late 70's at college. I have ever since purchased one Marvel comic or another but I find I enjoy DC more. I follow the creators I enjoy from company to company but I find I will pick up my favorite DC books regardless of creator. I have always chalked it up to the same thing Mr. White does - I started reading DC as a young child and those years informed my tastes in a fundamental way.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,568

    Default

    I think I am the same way. I grew up on X-Men and Marvel. I have tried to get into the DCU and although a lot of the comics I pick up are awesome, there just isn't the same emotional connection for me. That said, I'm super excited about DC Rebirth and I have already made a hefty list of #1s to try out ...

  7. #7
    Optimistic Elitist Tom Foolery's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Quad Cities, USA
    Posts
    371

    Default

    JLIBatwoman
    He also has a soft spot in his heart for the Giffen/DeMatteis/Maguire Justice League era and Greg Rucka & JH Williams III's Batwoman arc on "Detective Comics"
    But I do feel different with DC, perhaps because it's the other shared superhero universe. Casual observers can't tell the difference between the two, and I do see why; there are nuanced and fundamental tonal differences between the two that I feel in my vibe-receptors every time I read a book from either universe, but they're both superhero universes made up of secret identities and action and world-saving and retcons and teamwork and etc. I think that for the past decade of my more inclusive habits, I've been trying to play catch-up with DC, trying to make myself feel as attached to it as I do to Marvel -- and then feeling pretty darn guilty when I can't (brains are weird).
    I 100% agree with this, and trying to ascertain a logical reason for it escapes me. Especially when 97% of creators, writers, artists, editors, etc have created work for both companies. Is it a mystique that the readers have created and perpetuated? Marvel has always come across to me as the scrappy underdog company that did well for itself, and DC was always "the man". But that's strange because I've been collecting consistently since 1988 and I'm pretty sure Marvel has always been #1 in that time frame. And within the fictional universe, Marvel characters have always sorta been the mistrusted outsiders, while DC characters were always revered instead of persecuted. But even today that isn't correct, since characters like Iron Man and Deadpool are celebrities in the modern comics. But that underlying tone is always there in what should be fundamentally identical fictional universes.

    For what it's worth, I plunged into both universe simultaneously back in the 80s. Marvel's Punisher led to Wolverine led to X-Men, and events like Atlantis Attacks and Acts of Vengeance led to to everything else. At DC, The Batman movie led to Batman, which led to New Titans and Hawk and Dove and Deathstroke, and Superman's Death led to everything else.
    Heroes Reborn and Spider-Clones drove me away from comics, but Batman's Hush brought me back.
    It was Nu52 that drove me away from DC altogether after 22 years, and every time I've reluctantly tried dipping my toe back in I've been dissatisfied and that hook just isn't there anymore.
    Will I try again? Yeah, Priest on Deathstroke and King on Batman intrigue me, but it's an uphill battle for DC to get my trust back.
    "You can talk your way out of almost anything." - Fortune Cookie Proverb

    T. Foolery's unwieldy, yet not entirely unimpressive, collection of funny books.

  8. #8
    Newbie Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    7

    Default

    I feel very similarly. I grew up watching Batman: TAS and Justice League and Justice League Unlimited. I never really watched any Marvel cartoons. i didn't buy my first trade paperback until two years ago and my first comic last May with Convergence, DC You, and Secret Wars. I waded my way through what I enjoyed in trades and Marvel Unlimited but it took me so long to find my niche because my Marvel entry point was really the movies. ANAD Marvel has been great for me and I have bought so many more issues and monthly books (currently more than DC) because I feel more invested in the creators and stories and universe as a whole. In the last several months I have been so fed up with DC because nothing has seemed good or important minus a few books (Batman, Justice League, Batman and Robin Eternal). The Rebirth announcement I watched live and I was as excited as I have ever been about comics in my short 2 years of reading. I have such high hopes for Rebirth and there is so much I want to read (really all of it). I see a lot of negativity on comment sections all over the internet on various websites and maybe I am not as jaded and warped since I haven't been buying comics for over a decade like many of you all, but I could not be more excited about Rebirth, and I continue to be excited about ANAD Marvel and the upcoming Civil War II as it has given me an in and a way to begin reading monthly with the opportunity to go back and read and appreciate everything that has come before.

  9. #9
    Spectacular Member hsalf's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    138

    Default

    Interesting article. For me I started with Marvel in the Mid-Eighties with GI Joe and Transformers. But I quickly got into Spider-Man, Iron Man, Captain America, Avengers and yes of course the X-Men. I tried Batman and Justice League International but the DCU never grabbed me with their fictional locations. It just felt strange to me, so I could just never get into it. But a little event called Death of Superman changed my whole perspective, soon I was reading Batman, Superman, JL, GL, Flash. Suddenly I didn't care as much about Marvel's Universe, though I did soldier on with ASM, FF and the various X-Books until Heroes Reborn. However life soon got busy and I dropped comic reading all together in 2000. Flash forward to 2014, I suddenly got the itch to read comics again and for that I blame watching the Walking Dead and all of the Marvel movies. Soon I was back in the game reading this strange version of the DCU called the New52, other than being a bit lost when starting out, I felt I was back with old friends. Marvel on the other hand still doesn't do much for me, though I've been enjoying the X-books and Spider-Man again, but I just don't have that same connection that I do with the DC heroes. So yes in a nutshell I am excited for Rebirth, I'm hoping it will pull some of the DC books out of the doldrums, which is pretty much everything right now but the JL, JLA and the Batman line.

    And yes, I still read GI Joe and Transformers.
    Last edited by hsalf; 03-30-2016 at 11:22 PM.

  10. #10
    Junior Member Fifolet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    354

    Default

    As Brett i have an emotional tie to the X-Men that i don't have with any other character in comics. New teen titans is what comes the closest, which speaks volumes about my reading habits. Despite the fact that X-Men were my comics love, i never focused on just Marvel. In fact i'd say it was pretty 50/50 over the years, with fluctuations towards one side or the other. I enjoyed the different feel i got from both Marvel and DC. I always thought DC and its characters were a lot more bombastic and cosmic than more down to earth Marvel and i liked that. Unlike you however, the new 52 put me off. I consider the new DC shared universe weaker than before and after sticking with just 3 or 4 titles and occasional trade of Batman, i'm pretty much done with it. I'm currently just buying Gotham Academy, and i'd cut it off too if Marvel would put out a good teen mutant team ongoing. And to be honest, i don't miss it all that much. Cutting the ties allowed me the budget to try out different companies like Image, Valiant, Dark Horse and Boom, and i can't envision myself returning anytime soon.
    Pull list:
    "Your signature cannot be longer than 500 characters excluding BB code markup."

  11. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Huntington, WV
    Posts
    114

    Default

    When I was a kid I read DC and Marvel both, but even though I liked Marvel's comics the DC universe was very much my favorite.

    After Crisis on Infinite Earths however I lost interest in DC and became a casual reader of Marvel books for a few more decades until recently when I finally bailed out. Now I'm more of an indie guy, but I do like to keep up with the news which is why I'm here at CBR.

    I guess it's like occasionally checking in with an old friend that you don't hang out with anymore, just to touch base or something.
    Last edited by Xofer; 03-31-2016 at 12:09 PM.

  12. #12

    Default

    I've always had a bit of a complex relationship with both companies. For me, my very first comics were DC but the first comic book(s) I followed regularly were the X-men, as my years turned into teenage ones I gravitated more to Vertigo, certain specific DC titles and Image / Wildstorm. I lapsed a bit in my early 20's as a reader for a while but when I came back a few years later it was DC that caught my attention but Marvel has been generally impressing me more than DC with their output over the past few years.

    This may be entirely in my head but I have always viewed DC as the more “advanced” universe but I don't think it was always the case. To boil down a whole bunch of nuanced opinions I hold on the universes. I don't think this is entirely true now a days but I don't think it's entirely invalid either. To make an analogy, in my mind Marvel is akin to action movies and DC is akin to a really good TV show. A Quentin Tarantino, Guy Ritchie or Bruce Lee movie vs. The Wire, True Detective and Twin Peaks.

    I just dropped a bunch of Marvel titles yesterday to make room for potential post-rebirth reading. I'm not really sure what books will make it there but I'm willing to give a good chunk o' rebirth a shot. This said, I think if things don't look much more promising in six months DC will have most likely driven me off for good or at least until some major change in their publishing paradigm is obvious and established.

    I think the biggest issue DC is facing right now is a matter of trust. For me, what turned me off of the DC You initiative so much wasn't so much the content as the context. We were told of some vague plan where continuity wouldn't count so much, that only twenty-something titles would be in continuity but never what those titles were. Many of the books seemed fine but it just doesn't make sense to me at all why a book like Prez would not be a Vertigo title and it may seem a minor point but I never got why they couldn't just say Doctor Fate was on earth ___ or making it also a Vertigo book? This may sound trivial, and honestly, those titles weren't the ones that brought the most unanswered questions. It's not necessarily that I think every comic needs to be an in universe in continuity thing but I certainly would like to know what's what when I'm making my buying choices. I should note, that these “trust” issues didn't start with DC You or even Flashpoint and transcend the continuity questions. I know that the stories that I really want to be reading can best be told with the DC toolbox but during the past several years it seems like they've almost consciously (I realize this isn't really the case) and with a handful of exceptions, continually disappointed me. Ehh... no need to stress over spilled milk, hopefully DC will be born again into something better.

    Anyway, here's to you, DC. Impress me. Good luck.
    Did you know that every atom in our bodies was once part of a star? Think about that… EVERYTHING changes. Caterpillars turn into butterflies and stars turn into @$$holes.

  13. #13
    Veteran Member cranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,577

    Default

    Part of the draw of a shared universe is you are familiar with all the characters and references, or you recognize these exist and read up on the backstories. For people who really like that particular universe anything from outside of it is something that is not furthering that story. It does not make it bad, but something in that universe usually has an automatic benefit or enjoyment to it. Something from another shared universe entirely is probably going to actually have a disadvantage in that it is probably also taking for granted that the reader knows the characters and references, and the reader is going to be very aware that they are probably missing out on some element of the story.

    This is not even a Marvel vs DC, or even comic book thing, this pretty much happens in all areas of interest.

  14. #14
    The Troubleshooter jblogo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    50

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Foolery View Post
    I 100% agree with this, and trying to ascertain a logical reason for it escapes me. Especially when 97% of creators, writers, artists, editors, etc have created work for both companies. Is it a mystique that the readers have created and perpetuated? Marvel has always come across to me as the scrappy underdog company that did well for itself, and DC was always "the man". But that's strange because I've been collecting consistently since 1988 and I'm pretty sure Marvel has always been #1 in that time frame. And within the fictional universe, Marvel characters have always sorta been the mistrusted outsiders, while DC characters were always revered instead of persecuted. But even today that isn't correct, since characters like Iron Man and Deadpool are celebrities in the modern comics. But that underlying tone is always there in what should be fundamentally identical fictional universes.
    This is what I try to explain to casual and non-readers when they ask me "Which is better: Marvel or DC?". There is no "better". They are just different. I started reading comics back in 1986 after a family friend gave my older brother a bunch of old 1970s comics, and he let me read them. There was a mix of Marvel and DC, mostly including Daredevil, Hulk, Spider-Man, Superman/Action, and FF. I became more attached to Marvel because of Spidey and the FF. But I developed this weird respect for Superman, wherein I felt he was more "fictional" than the Marvel characters, and yet more "good" and "heroic". My little kid brain saw DC and Marvel as fundamentally different, but I did not understand why. Marvel characters seemed flawed somehow, and yet more interesting. Superman seemed perfect, less interesting, yet more dignified and respectable.

    Over the years I've found that DC comics simply carry that tone: more perfect, less interesting, more respectable. There is a sense of history, as if your grandparents are telling you an important story about your family's past. There is a sense of goodness and majesty, as if the characters are larger than life, and they can accomplish anything. That they are, essentially, like mythical gods. And somehow, those characters interact with each other almost like a family. DC characters all know each other. The only character I don't like in DC is Batman, who is a basically Marvel character trapped in the DC Universe.

    Marvel is different. There is a realism to it. There is an edge to the characters. The Marvel Universe is harsher and tougher, which creates more drama and makes it more interesting. There is less pure goodness, and less majesty. But the stories are FAR more human. Interestingly, my favorite superhero has always been Captain America, who is essentially a DC character trapped in the Marvel Universe.


    As much as I respect DC, as much as I may gush about the "original universe", I am primarily a Marvel guy. I have always bought and read much more Marvel than DC. I will have runs where I will buy DC: Legion of Superheroes, Green Lantern, events like Infinite Crisis and Zero Hour. Right now, I'm reading Superman and Lois and Clark. But while my DC runs may wax and wane, I ALWAYS buy Marvel stuff. Its really weird how much I respect DC, and yet I'm more attached to Marvel, and probably always will be.

  15. #15
    Fantastic Member Lemurion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    318

    Default

    I started with both companies around 1973-74, and my home has always been DC. Marvel's just never had that emotional connection, so while the comics have often been excellent, the universe has always felt unimportant. Marvel can go through massive changes and I don't care. I'll read the comics I like and ignore the ones I don't but the big world-changing events don't matter unless they take characters I like off the table.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •